Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

[Pargomad]

I agree with you, I suspect people are just not informed or realize how blessed they are with the weather there or maybe because in continental Portugal you are used to other less demanding palms. Hopefully one day they will have more. What you see mostly is Phoenix canariensis, queen palm, royal palm and i believe some foxtail ones.

Madeira island has many micro climates, including some warmer ones than Funchal, I suspect many people could just have a coconut in their gardens without the need of extra care.

Coconuts grow quite hard on Madeira. That's why are only a few and they only grow good in a few places.

They grow hard in the zones with minimum averages above 15º because isn't quite enough warm on the winters. In Canary Islands there are coconuts in all islands, obviously the most ones are on Tenerife and Gran Canaria Island. But in places like Fuerteventura with 100-150mm of yearly precipitations they grow good. That's because winters are quite warm, with daytimes of 21-22ºC. In Funchal for example, I searched now the climate for those next days and I am seeing 18-12, 18-13, 18-13... those aren't the proper temperatures to have a coconut palm tree

I think in Madeira, is more beautiful to grow mango, papayas, and a some tropical palm trees like the Roystoneas grow very very good. But it's not just the place for coconuts. That's why are only only a few samples of them and most of them aren't very very confortable with the winters, with looking at some of your posted photos before you can see some of them suffering

Madeira's climate is quite the same as in northern Tenerife, that is why the cocos look a lot like Madeira's ones (maybe with a worse aspect) :

In Punta del Hidalgo the temps are even lower than in Funchal and there the cocos don't fructificate, however in some other places in northern Tenerife like Puerto de la Cruz the climate is quite the same as in Funchal, here you can see the averages ( See them below this post)

Here goes a picture of some cocos in Puerto de la Cruz :

I think they look a lot like the cocos in the Marina ( if they weren't trimmed all the time) but older and taller and they do fructificate. But of course the weather in Lanzarote is warmer due to its location and the best cocos of the Canary islands are all on the southern arid coasts. Madeira southern coast is, in reality, the northern coasts of most of the canarian islands, even warmer in some spots. So we can't compare Lanzarote or southern Tenerife or Gran Canaria with Madeira, the climate is warmer and less humid.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Pargomad

[Pargomad]

You can see here the temps averages of Puerto de la Cruz and Funchal.

[Cluster]

Pargomad sorry for the late reply I am back in Lisbon and full of projects and exams, I probably return to Madeira for true vacations during February. On that day when I went for the coconuts I totally forgot that one from Regency. I can't say it was there or it wasn't since I am a very distracted person as you probably have noticed already (i did not notice the 2nd coco in Madalena ), though I think I would have noticed it since I looked around for a while and that one is near the main entrance:(.

[Cluster]

I am glad to know they do well in Fuerteventura with 100-150mm as I always thought Madeira was a bit dry for them. Are you sure they are not taken care of in terms of water requirements? As for temperatures, Canary Islands are warmer than Madeira of course:). Still I believe they can fruit in Madeira, one of my pictures even sees one small one growing.

You do not see more cocos on Madeira because people do not know how to take care of them or even care (at least yet) in my opinion. See how they destroy the coconuts on Madeira island compared to the ones shown from the Canaries, they are all trimmed, almost look naked!

Speaking of temperatures again, Madeira is warmer than one may expect though, the temperatures you are seeing now are an anomaly and all the Iberian Peninsula and Madeira have been having anomalies. I can tell you here in Lisbon we almost reached our lowest recorded temperature for December, 2 degrees. The old official station for Funchal is also situated in a colder spot than the new one and the southwest coast of Madeira like Madalena do mar, Paul do mar, Jardim do mar, Ponta do Sol and so on are places that have a warmer micro climate than Funchal. They are probably slightly warmer than some of the northern coast places of the canaries. Madeira south coast is also less windy than the Canaries and is as immune to extreme low records as the Canaries due to its special topography. The coconut I found out at 180 m is just an example to prove they do fine even at that altitude, since that one has already 20 years. It is possible that they can grow even higher but that is besides the point and of course the canaries are warmer. There have been good looking coconuts on the warmer places of Madeira just look at post 142 for example and in my opinion the dwarf one from the marina is good looking too:). Last but not the least, the temperatures forecast for Madeira usually fail for some reason as they tend to make it colder than actually it ends up being.

This is the official data of what happened yesterday (and yet the sites did say otherwise). The south and southwest stations are the ones from Funchal and Lugar de Baixo (Ponta do Sol).

With all that said this is why I believe they can fruit on the island, but they need to be "left alone". I also suspect people will remove the cocos from that dwarf one as I could reach them myself without any effort:(

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

You can see here the temps averages of Puerto de la Cruz and Funchal.

Puerto de la Cruz is not Spain's coconut place for me

In the Canary Islands the big problem is the water. Because the rain is very rare, Cocos Nucifera is not the plant most suitable here. There can grow thousands of coconuts but most of the people / the government dont't know that they need a lot of water. For example, here are some cocos nucifera planted on the hotels are everytime green and beautiful, but in the streets a lot of them are suffering because they have less water than they need. In this zone of the Canary Islands the climate is only a bit colder than in Bermuda, but in Bermuda it rains about 10-12 times more per year. That's why 90% of palm trees are Phoenix Canariensis (they are in their natural habitat) and phoenix and washingtonias in general, but the most common is the Canariensis. All those palm trees have very little needings of water, like they grow naturally all over the Canary Islands because the precipitations are low and they are good with that.

That's why we don't see even very much of Roystonea Regia, Dypsis Madagascariensis or Archontophoenix Alexandrae in the islands, even with they have a very proper climate for them, the ultra low precipitations are the problem.

There are some cocos nucifera planted on the streets:

(in this next photo, all of the palm trees in the background are coconuts)

Their leaves show us that they don't get enough water, even with the irrigations they got is not enough for them; they get the same irrigations like the other plants on their surrondigs so... :/

Now look at those on Lopesan Hotel: (they get all the water they need )

Look at how healthy they are... exactly like in the tropics. The waters marks all

And the perfect climate on Europe for cocos nucifera I think is the south of Gran Canaria island. Look for example at costa meloneras: http://www.eltiempo.es/costa-meloneras.html

January is the "coldest" month, with maximum averages of ~22º and minimum averages of ~17º; and in August it's about ~30º and ~23º. With an anual average of ~22º. But it rains ever less, about 80mm per year.

That is perfectly a tropical climate; but the rain is so little that it's considered arid/subtropical, because tropical can't fit with arid XD

Well in Costa Meloneras I think it's even hotter. If you see eltiempo.es (the 2nd biggest weather website of Spain, and one of the most accurates) the most common temperatures now in January for Costa Meloneras are 23º and 19º .

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

That is something very interesting Proeza.. but I am curious can Coconuts survive in the Canaries with just the water from the sky? Also you suggest that maybe for them to fructify they need a lot more water? The pictures you show me really show how big of a different the ones with the water look compared to the others! Even their fronds look bigger? I guess that explains why the Regency coconut looks better than many of the public places? But the one in Madalena do Mar only gets natural water I assume, but since it is so close to the sea maybe the sea is feeding it?

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Those are planted in a zone that the climate is almost the same as Funchal but a little little bit warmer:

And those in the south of Tenerife:

As you see they look a lot better in the south...

This one is 80 YEARS OLD!

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

That is something very interesting Proeza.. but I am curious can Coconuts survive in the Canaries with just the water from the sky? Also you suggest that maybe for them to fructify they need a lot more water? The pictures you show me really show how big of a different the ones with the water look compared to the others! Even their fronds look bigger? I guess that explains why the Regency coconut looks better than many of the public places? But the one in Madalena do Mar only gets natural water I assume, but since it is so close to the sea maybe the sea is feeding it?

They can't grow only with the water from the sky. Well, in La Palma, Hierro or La Gomera they can; but the climate is almost the same as in Madeira; there are only a few. In the zones where you can see in a lot of places even with Street View, like I said you before, the precipitations are even less than 100mm, and in almost all of those zones precipitations doesn't exceed 200mm

I don't know the answer of your last question hehe, but yes, I think that they only get natural water; Madeira has a lot of precipitations !

I think that the best climate for them would be the temperatures of the southernmost Canary Islands combined with the precipitations of Madeira, a place in Europe with 22 - 17 at January, and 30 - 23 at august, combined with ~700mm of rain... that would be awesome

[Cluster]

Well the problem with Madeira is that all the southern coast is a bit dry during the summer, does not rain much in a period of 3 months, the average is around 600-700 mm per year I think but then July is 7,6, June 1,6 and august 2.0. I heard there are coconuts in the northern coast but I will need to confirm that myself during my next vacations, in the north it does rain much more but then again even colder.. lol:)

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

This one is at La Gomera island, one of the oldests in Europe and it grows in a certain altitude.

I can't confirm it, because I readed the posts several years ago, but if I don't remember bad, this one is at ~300m. I can't confirm it like I said before, but it was something like that

ç

This video is from someone that loves so much his coconuts ...

the video deserves to be watched hehe, those coconuts from the Cocos Nucifera in his garden grew exactly like in tropics! (he is from Gran Canaria)

And those ones are from south Gran Canaria island, the most suitable climate for them in Europe. All of them give mature fruits:

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Well the problem with Madeira is that all the southern coast is a bit dry during the summer, does not rain much in a period of 3 months, the average is around 600-700 mm per year I think but then July is 7,6, June 1,6 and august 2.0. I heard there are coconuts in the northern coast but I will need to confirm that myself during my next vacations, in the north it does rain much more but then again even colder.. lol:)

Good job in your search mate I hope you find some of them!!! But I think that you won't find anything, because the climate as I said before it's not very suitable for them... They need more hot on winters and that is something that they won't get on Madeira. From 18º in Madeira to 22º in Tenerife the difference is very low, but for a Cocos Nucifera that marks the spot

Well actually I am seeing the average temperatures in Sao Vicente, which is is northernmost Madeira and I will say to you something dissapointing...

It's actually impossible to a cocos nucifera to grow up there. I am seeing those days 14 - 13º and 15 - 14º. But next week will be days with 13 - 12, 17 - 12, 14 - 12... they can grow up with those 12 - 13 - 14º without major problems (obviosuly they won't give fruits) but they can't actually because the high temperatures aren't enough. In the northernmost Madeira I am seeing that in December only a few days were more than 20º, and January is even colder; in this week of the actual 2015, temperature ranges were from 18-19 to 14. They need the magic 20º spot

If you look for example in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, in December the recordings were those: (AccuWeather is not very accurate on their previsions... but they have a very very good temperature recordings, because if you reach a temperature the meteo station will record it, it's no chance to give nothing wrong!)

http://www.accuweather.com/es/es/las-palmas-de-gran-canaria/303032/december-weather/303032?monyr=12/1/2014

All days the temperature were +21ºC excepting 2 days with 20ºC. It reached 14º a couple of days, 15º a couple of days and the most common minimum temperature is 17ºC. They won't get any problem even with 10ºC like in Florida those days, because if they get at least 19-20 and sun on winters, they will grow well!

Regards

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

The station from São Vicente is located inside the vale which is prone to temperature inversions, but the coastal zone is more mild, the new weather station in the northern Coast is that one in Porto Moniz, the lows are quiet decent but most days it is around 18 to 19. Since the station is new and we are experiencing anomalies I will wait for the normal weather to have a better picture of the temperatures in the northern coast. In any case if I am able to see a fruiting coconut on Madeira south, southwest if needed, then I will be happy:). One of the major problems it that we have so few coconuts that there is no pollination and I only know of a dwarf one (self sufficient), the one in Marina which has that mini coco, but it is still quiet young. I would like to convince the people from Faja dos Padres to plant some coconuts there, I believe that place is at least one degree to 1,5 warmer than Funchal (Where I saw the mangos ripe one month before Funchal). The biggest reason I want them planted there, though, is that they would not be trimmed to hell (if I convince them) and people would not pick up the coconuts that would eventually grow.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

That's what I was saying before about the coconuts, precipitations and the Canary Islands.

This is the best photo to explain my theory with the precipitations. Look at those ones which belongs to a hotel:

Now look at those, planted outside on the streets:

Well they are very good and healthy too, but not as green as the ones that get all the water they need , in Gran Canaria for example there are at least one thousand coconuts planted on public places. They have to do something and start learning that they need more water and more care with the plagues than the other palm trees... But luckily for now plagues aren't a big problem on the Canary Islands.

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

I still liked the first hotel picture ones the most! I like it when the fronds go lower instead of a V shape and if they have a good size even better! But yes there is a noticeable difference between the hotel one and the public. It was mentioned here that coconuts were forbidden in certain areas o the Canary Islands though?

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I still liked the first hotel picture ones the most! I like it when the fronds go lower instead of a V shape and if they have a good size even better! But yes there is a noticeable difference between the hotel one and the public. It was mentioned here that coconuts were forbidden in certain areas o the Canary Islands though?

Yes, because the local authorities of some places think "they are dangerous" for the coconuts, because the coconuts can fall over people's heads or over cars.

And sadly i'm not trolling...

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I founded the coconut I was talking about !!!

Is this one, located at ~350-400m in the interior of Gran Canaria island.

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

Nice find there:) As for the forbidding cocos in the Canaries I was referring to the post 173 where it is mentioned " Santa cruz de Tenerife they "forbade" planting more cocos in the city because of the whiteflies".

[Pargomad]

Yes Cluster, that is what I had read on an other website. For Madeira I believe that there are places where the cocos can live and fructificate with no difficulties, like Funchal on the coast (Lido, praia formosa...) and madalena do mar, lugar de baixo, etc...

For my previous post about Puerto de la Cruz, yes there are a lot of cocos in this place, in some houses parks gardens and even on the beach and the climate there is quite the same as in Funchal, in Punta del Hidalgo the weather is colder than in Funchal nevertheless there are a lot of tropical trees such as delonix regias and cocos. The problem in Madeira is not the weather or climate, but the people who don't know how to cope with these trees. Ok they will never look like the ones in the tropics or in Puerto del Mogan, but if they look like those I saw on northern Tenerife, I will be satisfied.

(For the pic of the tall cocos in La gomera, it is located just on the coast of La gomera and not at 300 m)

[Cluster]

If Funchal shares the same climate as Puerto de la Cruz based on the old official station (which is the colder one, the Funchal/lido one is warmer), then the southwest coast is warmer than Puerto de la Cruz, I see some potential there:)

[Pargomad]

Here you can see some pictures of Puerto de la Cruz and imagine all the potential for Madeira then !

Puerto de La cruz with the same climate as Funchal has more cocos than Madeira itself. The streets are plenty of delonix regias, palm trees ( phoenix, washingtonias, roystoneas, dypsis, etc) surrounded by banana fields and the mountains... the paradise ! The flora is exclusively subtropical and tropical and that gives you the impression you're on Hawaii or somewhere else on the tropics !

Edited January 7, 2015 by Pargomad

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Here you can see some pictures of Puerto de la Cruz and imagine all the potential for Madeira then !

Puerto de La cruz with the same climate as Funchal has more cocos than Madeira itself. The streets are plenty of delonix regias, palm trees ( phoenix, washingtonias, roystoneas, dypsis, etc) surrounded by banana fields and the mountains... the paradise ! The flora is exclusively subtropical and tropical and that gives you the impression you're on Hawaii or somewhere else on the tropics !

Hello man!

You are a bit wrong, it's not the same climate, Puerto de la Cruz has a warmer climate and it's more suitable for cocos. In Funchal for example will not grow like that, and they won't give mature fruits. There are some points in the south of the island with a climate very similar to Puerto de la Cruz but a little little bit less warm, but that are small zones with microclimates, Funchal is not one of them.

Look here, for example. The prediction for next days its not important, look at the registered temperatures:

http://www.accuweather.com/es/es/puerto-de-la-cruz/303044/december-weather/303044?monyr=12/1/2014

A very few days on the month reached 20º. All the other days were +21º , even with 27º and 28º now in December 2014. And a few days reached 14º, one 15º and all the others +16, being the most common 17º for minimum and 22-23º for maximum temperatures.

Now look at Funchal: http://www.accuweather.com/es/pt/funchal/274344/december-weather/274344?monyr=12/1/2014

4 days reached 20º. All the other days were 19º or less. For example there was a day with 17º max. and 12º min, and other days with 16º max and 13º min... it shows by itself that the temperatures are considerably milder in Funchal. The south of Tenerife or the south of Gran Canaria, Lanzarote or Fuerteventura are more warmer than Puerto de La Cruz. The difference to grow well, is that they need to have at least 20º almost every day on the coldest month. That's why they grow in Durban, ZA or Palm Bay, US. And that without couting that summers in Puerto de La Cruz are considerabily warmer than the summers of Madeira, because Madeira has a very mild and confortable summer, and in Puerto de La Cruz it easily gets to 30º or more during the summer...

Look for example October in Puerto de La Cruz: http://www.accuweather.com/es/es/puerto-de-la-cruz/303044/october-weather/303044?monyr=10/1/2014

And now in Funchal: http://www.accuweather.com/es/pt/funchal/274344/november-weather/274344?monyr=11/1/2014

The difference is very big. The autumns in Puerto de La Cruz are a lot warmer too. They have even african days, for example a day in October 2014 reached 36º max. and 26º min. That's because it's near to Africa and the hot air that comes from Sahara. Those are abnormal days but in summer it can reach even to 39-40º!

I hope now it remains more clear the requeriments to grow well of the Cocos Nucifera, they need hot in winters, they prefer to live in a place with 22º at day and 11º at night, than in a place with 18º at day and 15º at night.

Madeira has more potential on the south side of the island; it's possible somewhere to grow well (in a concrete place with a warmer microclimate) for them to get as big as the ones from Puerto de La Cruz for example, but to give mature coconuts I don't know if it's possible in Madeira.

Edited January 7, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Pargomad]

As Cluster said at least three times, the temperatures of Funchal are mainly taken in the old station and not in Funchal lido for example where you have similar temperatures or some other places on the southern coast. I do believe that Cocos nucifera can grow well on the island otherwise they would all have died naturally and not because of the Madeirans who don't know how to take care of them.

[siafu]

Hi,

I'm sure the old fronds are being cut for reason... Maybe they become ratty and unsightly.

[Pargomad]

Back to the madeiran cocos, I think the best cocos on the island is the one in the hotel In lido Funchal, as proeza said, they get enough water in the hotels and grow better, here you can see the cocos ( not trimmed) with its large and beautiful leaves, seems to be in good health

I really like the garden because there are a lot of tropical plants and palmtrees : some roystoneas, christmas palms ( still unknown on the island and we can find some of them in a few hotels in Funchal), ravenala madagascariensis, etc. A real tropical athmosphere surrounded by the sea and the banana fields

Edited January 7, 2015 by Pargomad

[Cluster]

Proeza you are comparing a small period of time with climate averages. Madeira is having a colder time now but according to the data exposed here which are normals for the same period both places have exactly the same climate. I never realized this till I saw side by side how equal they are. The graphs show exactly the truth, both stations are about equal, meaning lido one is warmer and Ponta do Sol (Lugar de Baixo is even warmer). Heat waves are not so common but they do exist in October, just because now you go check accuweather (which is not very relevant compared to official data from official stations from the same period which is this case) it does not change the whole climate of 30 years of record.

I show you the official data because that is the true data and those Pargomad showed for Puerto de la Cruz are for the same period 1982 2012 (actually the ones from Funchal are earlier 1981-2010 (2012 was the warmest year ever for Funchal btw and it is not included in the normals!).

Last but not the least Funchal is probably more resistance to low extreme records than Puerto de la Cruz and is less windy (due to its central Mountain Range). This is not a war about which Islands are warmer (Canary are of course warmer ), but comparing similar climates from the northern coast of the Canaries with the south and southwest of Madeira to get a feeling how Madeira could look like in those warmer regions:)

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cluster

[Cluster]

Also I started gathering official data from the daily bulletins for around one or two years, this is what I compiled for 2013 and take notice that February is the coldest month for Madeira.

[Stelios]

Also I started gathering official data from the daily bulletins for around one or two years, this is what I compiled for 2013 and take notice that February is the coldest month for Madeira.

Hi Cluster

From what I see coconuts in Madeira are growing OK, especially in the correct climate on the island and when they are not over trimmed. I think they is a possibility to make mature fruits. I hope to see in the future some tree which is not trimmed with mature coconuts.

Stelios

[Pargomad]

Gosh these temps are almost tropical ! Lugar de baixo is definitely the best place on Madeira where cocos could grow... But unfortunately, there is no one there planted. The real problem in Madeira is the people who aren't enough informed about these cocos, firstly because they keep overtrimming them and secondly because, thanks to proeza for the pieces of information, they aren't well watered ! In summer 2012 I went there on Madeira and I was very shocked when I saw an arid landscape with a lot of trees dying like the eucalyptus or pinetrees! The temps were like 30-36 everyday during one week! Also I saw the cocos in Funchal over but over trimmed with only two or three leaves and the cocos in the park were dry ! The leaves were all yellow. That proves that the municipality doesn't water them at all !!

(Cluster I am very interested to your temps you started gathering, could you please tell us more about that ? Thx)

Edited January 8, 2015 by Pargomad

[Cluster]

Hey Stelios, I also believe in what you say let´s hope something shows up at some point! If I get the chance to plant one at the garden around 140 m I would try to get a dwarf to be able to have coconuts, maybe with proper care it can fruit at that altitude:). Pargomad everyday our official meteo (IPMA) shows data for all the official stations, I simply collect all the pdfs for 2 years and then when I need to check the data I have it in my hdd:) http://www.ipma.pt/resources.www/transf/boletins.meteo/drm/boletimdiario.pdf .

Proeza did raise a very interesting question about water requirements, next time will pay more attention to it, though the one near the beach in Madalena does not look very dry.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

You can see here the temps averages of Puerto de la Cruz and Funchal.

I've say the same thing like Cluster. Those averages are colder than normal ones, because those ones were taken at a mountain facing observatory where is more exposed to the milder/colder sea flows and winds coming from the Atlantic. In the city itself, you can see it on AccuWeather registered temps... The normal goes 20-21 to 15;

I am seeing in all places the weather previsions for next week and all are the same. The maximum on Funchal is the minimum on Puerto de La Cruz, at least those next 2 weeks. AccuWeather predicts 11º today of min. ; tomorrow 14-11, 15-12, 15-13, 16-12, 16-12, 16-11, etc... even 13-8 next week. All this January there is not gonna be any day with 20º or more in Funchal. From 1 December 2014 to today, only 3 days reached the mark of 20º and one 21º. All the other day maximums were 19º or less, and if a Cocos Nucifera doesn't 20º for a long time... I don't know how good is gonna be for him :/

I'm not underestimating Madeira's climate. Like you've been saying forwards, there are places in the southernmost Madeira with a climate as warm as Puerto de La Cruz. But Funchal it doesn't has this, this only occurs in a few places that got a microclimate. Because, explain me why there aren't more cocos on Madeira... For now we know the existence of ~30 in all island ! There is sure that there it will be some more but they are very hard to find, because the climate is not the perfect climate for Cocos Nucifera. It's for Mango, Banana, Kiwi... Roystoneas, Dypsis... But not Cocos Nucifera.

That's my opinion and I will keep it, because what another explanation can be referring to have only a few in all the island.

And Cluster, mate, I know this is not a battle for determine the warmest climate; because the only right comparation to Madeira's climate it's the north of Tenerife or Gran Canaria; but in those places the temps gone a bit warmer, sufficient to grow cocos. Now as you said before this winter is quite cold in Madeira... But if you look at the recorded temperatures for the last month and this one, and if you look at previsions that they say it's gonna be even colder... This is enough for the coconut to not grow well. Like I've said a lot of times and a it has been said a lot of times in this Forum... they will grow better with 20º at day and 12º at night than 16º at day and 15º at night.

And Pargomad, even in warmest zones of Madeira it's not possible for them to make fruits ... believe me friend, the climate is only a bit warmer than in Funchal, it has to be very very rare. I would believe it the day i'll see it! But I think it's not possible, because the ones from Madeira are quite far from fructifying; and even in Canary Islands they fructify only in the warmer places... not in all places where they are planted, of course!

Regards, and like I said before I give you my support to go ahead with those coconuts on Madeira and it's interesting to see their evolution.

I'm not trying to make a battle or to discourage you Cluster, mate! I'm talking from the coherency of my acknowledgement of the properly Cocos Nucifera growing. But it would be great to see yours at 140m !!! You don't lose anything trying it. And if survives you will have a great coconut in a very rare place for them to grow. So keep it up !!

Edited January 8, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[empireo22]

well even if parts of madeiras climate is similar to canary islands. the reason they might not fruit or look as good as in the canaries. is because of latitude....not weather.....being 5 degrees further south the sun intensity is stronger in winter and days are longer than madeira. even in the same temperature the heating from the stronger sun has an impact on growth in the winter. but I do think they should be tried more in madeira in gardens where people will care and water and fertilize them in the summer. Coffee must grow great there?

[Cluster]

Proeza if you believe accuweather then of course you think the weather is cold:) Instead of using the accuweather check the official station (which is the cold one that we compared with Puerto de la Cruz:) ), or check some of the amateur wunderground stations like Funchal Ajuda, comparing official standards with stations with no standards afected by the city heat is just not correct. December till now we had above 20 degrees average on the official station what are you saying?! Must I send you all the bulletins from December ? Look this link registers all the IPMA (which is our AEMET) Madeira stations, it updates everyday with a new bulletim. http://www.ipma.pt/resources.www/transf/boletins.meteo/drm/boletimdiario.pdf. Instead of believing me check yourself everyday what it registers:). It is easier for you and there is no speculation there is only real data, additionally you can check the climate atlas made by AEMET/IPMA for all our islands http://www.aemet.es/documentos/es/conocermas/publicaciones/2Atlas_climatologico/Atlas_Clima_Macaronesia___Baja.pdf.

The problem here is that you believe the forecasts and accuweather instead of checking the real data. With the link I showed you there you can take your conclusions. For example you speak of not reaching 20 during January and if you check today's bulletin you see lido with 23...If you don't want to trust official data then so be it, but you won't convince anyone in my opinion when there is access to the data from IPMA freely that follows the meteo standards.

As for the sun that might be something to consider, but I check the UV forecast for the Canaries in AEMET(official spanish meteo) and is the same as IPMA shows for Madeira.

[Cluster]

Empireo22 I am not sure they are trying coffee! Must ask someone or search for it at some point! Have you seen post 224 coconut? I think it looks better than the ones in northern canaries from post 201! Also there is a little coco growing up on this thread, actually it is one of the reasons the thread started . I am just afraid people will take it away eventually as even a child can reach them and will find it funny:P.

I was thinking could I perhaps try to pollinate the coconuts from Madalena when I return as I can probably still reach some of them?

[Pargomad]

Yes coffee does grow in Madeira. I can post a pic to prove it when I have time .

[Cluster]

On post 164 2nd and third pictures it seems to me that tall one is developing coconuts and not just inflorescence. I shall follow it too in the future:)

[Cluster]

I was not 100% sure what this was when I went to Madeira:

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Proeza if you believe accuweather then of course you think the weather is cold:) Instead of using the accuweather check the official station (which is the cold one that we compared with Puerto de la Cruz:) ), or check some of the amateur wunderground stations like Funchal Ajuda, comparing official standards with stations with no standards afected by the city heat is just not correct. December till now we had above 20 degrees average on the official station what are you saying?! Must I send you all the bulletins from December ? Look this link registers all the IPMA (which is our AEMET) Madeira stations, it updates everyday with a new bulletim. http://www.ipma.pt/resources.www/transf/boletins.meteo/drm/boletimdiario.pdf. Instead of believing me check yourself everyday what it registers:). It is easier for you and there is no speculation there is only real data, additionally you can check the climate atlas made by AEMET/IPMA for all our islands

The problem here is that you believe the forecasts and accuweather instead of checking the real data. With the link I showed you there you can take your conclusions. For example you speak of not reaching 20 during January and if you check today's bulletin you see lido with 23...If you don't want to trust official data then so be it, but you won't convince anyone in my opinion when there is access to the data from IPMA freely that follows the meteo standards.

As for the sun that might be something to consider, but I check the UV forecast for the Canaries in AEMET(official spanish meteo) and is the same as IPMA shows for Madeira.

I am refering to the recorded temperatures. They can't be very accurate in predictions, but the recorded temperatures don't lie; because are the registered on the meteo station. And this winter for example in Madeira, if you plant a coconut I won't think it will survive, and in Puerto de La Cruz yes, because almost all of the maximum recorded temperatures last month were like the minimums of Puerto de La Cruz!

Ok man I respect your opinion; but I still will believe AccuWeather. Here for example, Aemet is less accurate than AccuWeather, because it depends where the meteo station is located; and here is up in the mountains where the humidity is higher and where the wind blows more powerful...

But think that are a very very few coconuts on Madeira... That is for something; is because is not the most suitable place for them...

Like I said before, you don't lose anything if you try it so go with it! Regards.

Edited January 9, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

Please show me the recorded temperatures the site or the station, otherwise I do not understand what you are trying to say:). There is a coconut with 20 years old living around 200 m with no protection and you think they do not survive this winter at coastal altitude? Just for the record that place around 6pm had less 1,5 degrees or so than the coastal area nearby.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Cluster

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Empireo22 I am not sure they are trying coffee! Must ask someone or search for it at some point! Have you seen post 224 coconut? I think it looks better than the ones in northern canaries from post 201! Also there is a little coco growing up on this thread, actually it is one of the reasons the thread started . I am just afraid people will take it away eventually as even a child can reach them and will find it funny:P.

I was thinking could I perhaps try to pollinate the coconuts from Madalena when I return as I can probably still reach some of them?

... you are comparing 1 single coconut to a esplanade of coconuts... and like I said before the water is a problem; look at them, there is no irrigation around them, they only get the low precipitations....

and those single coconut is strategically planted and it has a perfect microclimate surrounding him, as the hotel protects him of air... and it get's all the water he needs!

Look at those ones I posted on the other posts... there are some planted even in the streets that look as green at that. All from the hotels look perfectly green because they get the water they need.

Regards!

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

weather database recordings, those where recorded at the meteo stations so they can't be lying... those are accurate registered marks, not predictions. AccuWeather is a trustworthy website for weather recordings.

http://www.accuweather.com/es/es/puerto-de-la-cruz/303044/december-weather/303044?monyr=12/1/2014 - PUERTO DE LA CRUZ December 2014

http://www.accuweather.com/es/pt/funchal/274344/december-weather/274344?monyr=12/1/2014 - FUNCHAL December 2014

Edited January 9, 2015 by pRoeZa*