2014/2015 Winter in south Europe

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Good to know Kostas!

Look at this, has someone somewhere seen temperatures any weirder than this ¿? (this one is from here)

Edited February 19, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Phoenikakias]

Thessaloniki and Kavala are not directly on the coast. Their coastal parts remain warmer, 8a/b and above. Inland it gets cold at that high latitude in Greece.

This cold front did not have record low temperatures in general, so i think the CIDP in Kavala should be fine. They are on the coast and the coast does not get too cold, not near the temperatures listed for the inland parts of town. -6C does not damage CIDP normally.

Thanks, the discolouration on the leafs fixed fast as the temperature rose and the leafs got red again(L. mariae is reddish when young). Its strange how they can do that!

In Melissia it snows annually more or less and there is plenty of snow for play. I sure wish it never snowed and never got cold. In Pyrgos it only snows once in 20years and its only snowflakes falling and melting as soon as they touch anything...We never get any snowcover in Pyrgos, the mountains to the east do get it high up.

PRECISELY! I have tried to describe it in PT a couple of years ago. It has been observed on many hardy palms during cold spells in northern Europe and has been called in German VERGLASUNG. I have never come across a description and a given name in English literature, so I tried to translate it to VITRIFICATION. NOT ALL palms are capable of this reaction, and, most amazingly, the Arenga pinnata can do it!

[Phoenikakias]

guys sorry to hear that. I don't knowed that a cold wave could affect so much Greece; I always knowed that Spain and Greece are the countries in Europe with the most lookalike climate (Italy at his north has Alpine climate and Spain no) here for example in the worst day of this year we arrived to 3°C which is the lowest temperature i've seen those last years(at least from 2001/02 when I started to like meteorology). But in Girona happens the same as in Thessaloniki and Kavala, it's at the Mediterranean coastline but it's one of the places with the most cold during the cold waves. If you see the temperature map during a cold wave, Girona will be the coldest place in this zone at the sea; even colder or the same than Montpellier, but colder than Perpignan or Marseille. Sometimes Girona gets colder than Madrid haha! Cold air currents maybe? Idk.

I know that in the coastline of Kavala are several CIDP. Do you think they're damaged? In Madrid this year in the cold wave they arrived somewhere between -4/-4.5 at the coldest day; but some palms with -4 at Madrid got some light light burning in the tip of the leaves; not all, but some of them yes. With -6 they get light damages?

Really sorry to hear that Phoenikikias. Idk why a cold wave like this arrives in late winter lol... Sure you'll gonna have a good warm spring and all of them will enjoy, Kostas those ones doesn't seem very damaged, sure they will get healthy green again!

BTW I quite envy you guys because here even at the mountains we doesn't saw any snow, only the day I mentioned last month it snowed in the nearby mountains at ~+500m but when I was going to the mountains, not even 1 hour after the light snowfall, no trace of any, all was converted to water real quick.

Yet I remember quite clearly, that on an April day on the beach of Marbella, I was able to see a Sierra in the horizon with peaks full of snow! And it did not look to far from the coastal line...

[SouthSeaNate]

I used to get that colouration of the fronds after a frost in my UK garden, I used to notice it on my Washingtonia robusta & Livistona australis mainly & yes after a while the leaves would go back to normal colour again...

Here today was dry & mostly sunny, but we had a strong cold wind, sheltered from that it felt lovely in the sunshine as the UV is now at 4 in Malta. Max today was 14.8C after a low of 11.8C

And bought some more plants today, two small Cordyline fruticosa "Kiwi"

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

guys sorry to hear that. I don't knowed that a cold wave could affect so much Greece; I always knowed that Spain and Greece are the countries in Europe with the most lookalike climate (Italy at his north has Alpine climate and Spain no) here for example in the worst day of this year we arrived to 3°C which is the lowest temperature i've seen those last years(at least from 2001/02 when I started to like meteorology). But in Girona happens the same as in Thessaloniki and Kavala, it's at the Mediterranean coastline but it's one of the places with the most cold during the cold waves. If you see the temperature map during a cold wave, Girona will be the coldest place in this zone at the sea; even colder or the same than Montpellier, but colder than Perpignan or Marseille. Sometimes Girona gets colder than Madrid haha! Cold air currents maybe? Idk.

I know that in the coastline of Kavala are several CIDP. Do you think they're damaged? In Madrid this year in the cold wave they arrived somewhere between -4/-4.5 at the coldest day; but some palms with -4 at Madrid got some light light burning in the tip of the leaves; not all, but some of them yes. With -6 they get light damages?

Really sorry to hear that Phoenikikias. Idk why a cold wave like this arrives in late winter lol... Sure you'll gonna have a good warm spring and all of them will enjoy, Kostas those ones doesn't seem very damaged, sure they will get healthy green again!

BTW I quite envy you guys because here even at the mountains we doesn't saw any snow, only the day I mentioned last month it snowed in the nearby mountains at ~+500m but when I was going to the mountains, not even 1 hour after the light snowfall, no trace of any, all was converted to water real quick.

Yet I remember quite clearly, that on an April day on the beach of Marbella, I was able to see a Sierra in the horizon with peaks full of snow! And it did not look to far from the coastal line...

I'm speaking about my zone not about Spain. I don't know what happens near Marbella. I can ensure you that Marbella never got any snow, and places with less than 300m near marbella too. And yes, it's possible; because all the south of Spain is mountainous and Marbella has very near a 2000m mountain; even the peak of Marbella is somewhere between 1200 and 1250m.

Spain is very mountainous, being the mean average altitude ~600m.

Maybe you've seen La Concha Peak (a bit more than 1200m) with snow; it normally gets snow on the cold waves due to this high altitude; and it not has to be exactly a cold wave, all around winter it normally gets snow when the temps in Marbella are less than 13/14. In April idk what to say, maybe you've seen La Concha or another mountain from the Penibetic Mountain System; which are 1800-2000m and they can be seen from Marbella.

From my house I only can see the peak with 1013m (Pico De La Safor) which only got snow on the peak every year or every 2 years like I said a couple of times; and the snow didn't remained for more than a hour. In zones with more than 500m i've seen them in 2 times and the snow remained even less time. Regards

Edited February 19, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[siafu]

While rare, it has snowed at sea level in the southern coast of Spain. Check the link below.

<http://www.eltiempo.es/fotos/en-provincia-granada/nieve-en-la-costa-tropical.html>

In the southern coast of Portugal (Algarve) snow is pretty rare. The coldest air masses with

temperatures conductive to snow are usually very dry and just produce frosts.

[Cikas]

Temperatures in Dubrovnik area yesterday and today were relatively warm.

Maximum temperatures last two days in Dubrovnik area where around 15°C in shade. We have really nice weather these days. Sunny and very clear.

Minimum temperatures where around 6-7°C.

Temperatures right now at 4:40h.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Cikas

[Rafael]

pRoeZa is right, it is so far the f* coldest day of whole winter here. It has even snowed heavily during last might in the city center of Athens, where I live, and there is still until now snow on the balcony, in shady places, and it is ice frozen! At 10:00 am local time, temp outside is only 2 C! And I have uncovered all tender palms in my garden! Kostas what is the lowest you have recorded in Melissia during current f* cold spell? Im in the hobby for decades and on my scout's honor I have never ever experienced a winter with such a frequency of reoccuring severe cold spells!

Pics from my balcony taken today at 9:30 am local time

Öùôïãñáößá0554.jpgÖùôïãñáößá0555.jpg

Sorry to hear that.

This is my worst winter too, since i began growing palms...

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

While rare, it has snowed at sea level in the southern coast of Spain. Check the link below.

<http://www.eltiempo.es/fotos/en-provincia-granada/nieve-en-la-costa-tropical.html>

In the southern coast of Portugal (Algarve) snow is pretty rare. The coldest air masses with

temperatures conductive to snow are usually very dry and just produce frosts.

Yes I know. But what has to do that with me ? It's like if you're from Algarve and I say you the temps of Porto. What has to do that with you? Same applies to this.

Yes I know because in that day in 2005 I was very near to Motril. But you're wrong with that thing with the freezes because it doesn't freezed, or at least that's what I remember. It arrived near freezing but not. That thing with the snow and the freezes happen in the sky/clouds not at the ground. This year like I said last month it snowed at some parts of the coast of Castellon with almost 7°C! Obviously the snow didn't curdled; it was more sleet.

BTW that's not my zone (im very far from that) and that's quite far from Marbella too. Marbella city never got registered any snow at least in the last 50 years. You can search if it you want. Here the last "important" snow was accompanied with a important freeze, it happened 50 years ago and the temps were as down as -1/-2 and the snow remained some hours at sea level. Since that, no snow recordings ; it was in the 1960's. Search "La Gran Nevada de Valencia" and temps under freezing mark... The last time it happened here a freezing I wasn't born . Valencia city recordings (which is colder than here) has only 3 snow registerings. One in 1880's, one in 1946 (coldest day of the history of entire Spain) and the other in 1960's. Obviously it snowed a few more times but without curdling, they were light snowflakes with temps above the freezing mark:

http://www.levante-emv.com/comunitat-valenciana/2010/01/09/grandes-nevadas-valencia/667648.html "Esa fue, según confirmó ayer la agencia meteorológica, la última vez que la nieve cuajó sobre las calles de la ciudad de Valencia"

In the article says it, from 1960 today no snow. At least NO snow that arrives on the ground and stays, curdle snow. At the coastline of Valencia city, it was 'snow' at 2006 but it doesn't curdled; while here at my zone it not arrived, i'm 80km at the south of Valencia, with the best climate zone in the Valencian Community when it goes about cold waves we got like a 'protectection'. For example in 2013 and 2014 here the temps never went under ~4.4 (4 and something, but it not descended from 4°C im both 2 years)

In my zone the unique places that get snow are 'El Mongó' at ~850m (idk exactly) and 'El Pico De La Safor' with 1013m. This year as I said ot was abnormally cold and here we arrived at 3° which is the coldest temperature from 2001/02. The day before it snowed starting from points with 470-480m and more, but it remained 20 minutes, because at the mountain the temperatures were about 5-6°. Here we didn't seen any snow at the closest hills (and never in my entire life i've seen snow in those hills) and we don't got even sleet.

BTW I remember that day in 2005 because I was there. I can say you that that day the snow lasted some hours, yep. The second photo is from the Alhambra of Granada... Granada is inland and it's at 700m altitude. It snows every year a day in Granada; if it's a cold wave maybe it snows a week. In Granada it snows more than in Madrid...

Returning to the thread. Here today was the coldest day from those last ones. 14,9/10,2 as the max and low temperatures for Thursday, 19 Feberuary.

Now we got 10,3° and rising; but today arrived at 9,8°C.

Regards

Edited February 20, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Phoenikakias]

A commemorative picture for all those knowledgeable of the geography of Greece. Snow on beach of Ierapetra, Crete. Really, very weird!

[siafu]

While rare, it has snowed at sea level in the southern coast of Spain. Check the link below.

<http://www.eltiempo.es/fotos/en-provincia-granada/nieve-en-la-costa-tropical.html>

In the southern coast of Portugal (Algarve) snow is pretty rare. The coldest air masses with

temperatures conductive to snow are usually very dry and just produce frosts.

Yes I know. But what has to do that with me ? It's like if you're from Algarve and I say you the temps of Porto. What has to do that with you? Same applies to this.

Please don't take it so personally. Discussing weather and climate does not have to be a contest.

I posted that link because I wanted to confirm if snow is possible right on the coast of Southern Spain,

where it sounds so unlikely. The conditions for snowfall are rather particular, yet it seems they

can happen in places of coastal Spain, even in the south, and we don'd have to go back a long time.

I suppose this happens because the cold air picks moisture as it travels over the mediterranean. For us, here, in Portugal,

the coldest cold air masses usually cross Spain first and become too dry to produce precipitation.

I believe that's probably the reason, why cold events are often stronger for us, despite the fact we are farthest

away from the source. The dryness of the air that reaches us produces very low dew points, allowing the

temperature to drop like a stone. Closeness to sea does not protect much if the wind/breeze blows from

inland.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

While rare, it has snowed at sea level in the southern coast of Spain. Check the link below.

<http://www.eltiempo.es/fotos/en-provincia-granada/nieve-en-la-costa-tropical.html>

In the southern coast of Portugal (Algarve) snow is pretty rare. The coldest air masses with

temperatures conductive to snow are usually very dry and just produce frosts.

Yes I know. But what has to do that with me ? It's like if you're from Algarve and I say you the temps of Porto. What has to do that with you? Same applies to this.

Please don't take it so personally. Discussing weather and climate does not have to be a contest.

I posted that link because I wanted to confirm if snow is possible right on the coast of Southern Spain,

where it sounds so unlikely. The conditions for snowfall are rather particular, yet it seems they

can happen in places of coastal Spain, even in the south, and we don'd have to go back a long time.

I suppose this happens because the cold air picks moisture as it travels over the mediterranean. For us, here, in Portugal,

the coldest cold air masses usually cross Spain first and become too dry to produce precipitation.

I believe that's probably the reason, why cold events are often stronger for us, despite the fact we are farthest

away from the source. The dryness of the air that reaches us produces very low dew points, allowing the

temperature to drop like a stone. Closeness to sea does not protect much if the wind/breeze blows from

inland.

Noo it's nothing personally hahaha who said it's a contest¿? i'm not angry or something like that, why I should be?

Yes it can happen as you say in some places, but not in all coastal Spain. You still are saying that thing with we doesn't have to get back in a very long time; I still don't know why you state that mate! It happened only in Motril-Adra zone, I was in Adra which is quite close from Motril and I watched that that day. But like I said you here in my zone for example never snowed at the coast line. At least never from I was born. Like I said before (with the source too) last time it snowed here it was 1960.

But it can't snow at every place at coastal Spain because that isn't true. Málaga for example, has only 1 snow recording in all his history and was in 1954:

Marbella the same, Almuñecar the same. Cádiz for example, NEVER in the last century recorded a snowfall. In Cádiz for example the last snowfall was in 1884:

Huelva the same, only one recording and in 1954. Alicante city for example got 2 snow registerings in his history, one in 1926 and the other in 1960, like we did. From 1960, this is the last time the snow got close to Alicante city:

That was in 2010. But that's quite far from the city and the sea. Like you see on the photo the closest mountains don't have any snow. But those ones from the back have snow: those are "Els Plantadets" and "La Font Roja" and as you can see the snow started at about ~550-600m until the peak, which is at 1200-1300m. Even in those mountains which are with snow at the photo, it snow ~1 time for 10 years. At least in the low-altitude zones with 500-550 meters. In the higher ones obviously the snow is more normal, like in all places at high altitude!

Tarifa too, never recorded any snow. If I start mentioning all places who doesn't have seen any snow in at least 50 years or more I have to write 10 posts haha!

Almeria city, a big city and very important in the south of Spain, never got any snow in all of the history of the city. And it never got any freeze too, in all the history of the city.

Snow is possible in Spain, sure! but if we talk about the coast... in a very few places and 1 time in a century or twice in a century; talking about all the coast from Huelva to Valencia. (in northern places can get more frequently, but still is a very rare phenomenon) In Motril for example, from 1960 it never snowed until 2005. If you say "it can get snow on the south coast" everyone can think it can get snow on the whole south coast, and that's not the reality. There are places that get a bit of snow one time in a century, maybe 2 times; but there are places that never got snow. One thing is that someday could happen, yes of course but never happened. One day snowed and freezed in Miami, FL. Which is a tropical place.

But that's very very very uncommon, like snow here. Or in Jacksonville snows every 10 years or something like that, and they got a waaay better climate than we do in all Europe. (without counting Madeira, Canary Islands and tropical France or UK's overseas islands) It's not any battle and it's not anything personal. I am only correcting some statements that you are making. I talked about other places too and it's normal to not to know all things hehe!

It snowed sometime? Yes. In all the south coast? Not, like I said there are places that never got any kind and any recording of snow. The unique place from where we don't have to go back in the history, is Motril-Adra zone, which happened in 2005. But from that, snow at the coast of Spain from all the coast from Valencia to Huelva, from 1960 doesn't happened, and in some places it won't happened even in 1960.

Kind regards!

Edited February 20, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Kostas]

Snowfall can happen pretty much anywhere. It has snowed in Cuba and it's not so rare. Ands it's a tropical island. Tropical areas of Mexico also get snow every some years(rarely of course).

Snow is of very short duration in warm areas and melts within a few hours at most, so I bet it's not always officially registered.

But snow is not the end of the world for tropical plants. Most can withstand it if the air temperature is ok or if the freeze is of limited duration.

[SouthSeaNate]

Yes indeed snow has fallen everywhere in Spain it is just extremely rare to fall at the coast, even Majorca has snow every several years, even on the beach. As do coastal areas in northern Africa, again rare, but it can happen...

No snow here thankfully but some light rain this afternoon after some sunshine earlier. Maximum was 15.4C after a low of 10.5C

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

My friend that's not true at all, because you got places that don't get snow for more than a century. You readed the penultimate post?

Mallorca is got a way worst climate than I do. And a waaay worse climate than in the 'Costa Tropical' which is the coast from Granada to Cádiz. Mallorca got 1-2°C in cold waves almost all years, and they got light freezes every 2-3 years. The last freeze in my zone was recorded before I was born. The freezes doesn't count in this but I say you that to imagine the climate difference.

La Coruña, at the Atlantic Ocean is in zone 10A while the airport of Mallorca is at 9b/10a. Some palm trees that we grow here can't grow in Mallorca or they grow quite small.

The statement "snow has fallen everywhere in Spain" it's not true. First because it never snowed in some places I mentioned before, and in some places more that I even't mentioned don't got snow too. In places of Huelva, Málaga or Cádiz there aren't snow registerings for more than a century. In a few places (towns/small areas around the coastline) the registerings go about more than a century and a half, or even two centuries. If it not snowed in the last 100 years we can say that those are snow-free zones, or ain't them¿?

For example here as I said before it snows at about 50 years and light freezes about one time at 20-25-30 years (somewhere maybe at 15 years, or at 30, I can't say precisely but I am 20 years old and like I said the last freezing recorded here happened before I was born and it was very light, it happened in the starting of the 90's); I know that because that year a lot of orange trees at 10km inland died because more inland at and ~250-300-350m/370m zones that got extended citrus plantations, they got close to -3 and a lot of farmers lost their cultivations. In zones at 30-35-40km inland from 200 to 400/almost 450m they got oranges too and in those places arrived at -4.

But there are a few places that never got any kind of snow, even in the last 2 centuries, or maybe they got it someday but 5 centuries ago, because the weather stations don't recorded any of them.

BTW you can say the Iberic Peninsula which is Spain and Portugal. But if you say Spain they're included the Canary Islands too and in those places the snow really don't arrived never ever in the history at low altitude or the coastline. Imagine that the lowest temperature ever recorded in Santa Cruz city was 9-10°C and it belongs to 12b, like Las Palmas city.

Snow is more frequent in some places at the coast of the north of Africa compared to my zone, and Mallorca got snow a couple years ago. But here from 1960 not even a snowflake.

Regards

Edited February 21, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

BTW returning to the thread. Here we got today a lot of cold!

It arrived to 7ºC this early morning, after a brutal fall of the temperature, in a bit more of 4 hours the temperature descended from almost 14ºC (13,7º) to 7,8ºC, then uprised to 8,9ºC and falled until it reached 7ºC and then started to grow again. The hottest temperature of today was mantained from 12AM to 4PM, with 17.5-18ºC ¡we finally got a sunny day after a cloudy week! (today we arrived at 18.0ºC) but then started a big storm with torrential rain and thunders for 10-15 minutes and the temps quickly went down to 13ºC, but now is uprising a bit.

So for today remain 18/7 being quite rare today a entire low and high temperature without any decimals!

Edited February 21, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[SouthSeaNate]

Snow in coastal southern Spain is indeed very rare, but it has happened in the past, be it 50 years ago, 60 years ago or 100 years ago, it has still happened & probably will again one day... To say it has never snowed in coastal southern Spain is quite incorrect, it is very rare, but it has happened before.

[Phoenikakias]

Snowfall can happen pretty much anywhere. It has snowed in Cuba and it's not so rare. Ands it's a tropical island. Tropical areas of Mexico also get snow every some years(rarely of course).

Snow is of very short duration in warm areas and melts within a few hours at most, so I bet it's not always officially registered.

But snow is not the end of the world for tropical plants. Most can withstand it if the air temperature is ok or if the freeze is of limited duration.

It seems that temp in my garden did not dip below approx +1,5C during last cold spell if I can read correctly the min-max thermometer, I hope that red part on left column represents negative values (picture1), since indicator for lowest temp remained in the black part! I have not observed new damage on recently uncovered palms and I am not sure whether it also snowed! Any other living permanently in the southern coastal suburbs of Attica, who could provide more information about latest cold spell?

[Phoenikakias]

#1 picture

And now some picures from various palms, freed from their winter protection just a couple of days prior to most recent cold spell. All pictures taken today.

Jubaeopsis caffra

Medemia argun

[Phoenikakias]

Thrinax radiata, it keeps opening a healthy new leaf and produces another one.

[Phoenikakias]

Black water tanks provide extra warmth!

Dypis lutescens, it already opens a healthy new leaf

Hopefully all above palms with their current condition prove that a freeze has not occured.

[Kostas]

The red values do indicate the minus temperature scale. However, the thermometer seems not to be working correctly, the blue indicators are resting directly on the mercury which shouldn't be unless you just reseted it. If you did not just reset it, then the magnet behind is not holding them strong enough and they are not held in position to record the min/max temperatures. Also, there is a gap on the mercury which can lead to false indications. Hold the thermometer from above and swing it hard downwards for the mercury to merge together again.

Its great to see the plants in pretty good shape!!! That is what matters after all, hope they don't show damage latter. How is the Archontophoenix?

Clever trick the black water tanks there!!! I will keep it in mind as its something i can just place and leave to work on its own as protection!

[Phoenikakias]

The Archo has not a missed a bit! Thermometer was reset but thanks for your advice anyway. Only palms that show extended necrosis spots are some small Pritchardia specimens, but I think those are the result of an older and more freezing cold spell.

[Kostas]

Its great everything is fine! Only minor burns here and there, nothing a couple months don't fix. Thrinax is a stunner!

[Cikas]

We got rain during this night after many days of sunny and clear weather.

Temperatures right now at 5:40h in Dubrovnik area.

[SouthSeaNate]

And now some picures from various palms, freed from their winter protection just a couple of days prior to most recent cold spell. All pictures taken today.

Jubaeopsis caffra

jub1.jpgjub2.jpg

Glad to see your palms have little damage & I love your Jubaeopsis

The weather here today has been sunshine & showers, windy too. Maximum was 16.4C after a low of 14.3C.

[Kostas]

Rain, rain and more rain here today and most of the following days... At least its warm(-ish)

[SouthSeaNate]

The same as forecast for here, rain & thunderstorms every day for the next several days, but I am sure the plants & trees of Malta are appreciating it as we wont see much rain at all from April onwards...

I though am longing for summer now (even though I know when it arrives I will complain of the heat ) Rain on & off pretty much all day today with a Max of 14.0C after a low of 11.3C.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Snow in coastal southern Spain is indeed very rare, but it has happened in the past, be it 50 years ago, 60 years ago or 100 years ago, it has still happened & probably will again one day... To say it has never snowed in coastal southern Spain is quite incorrect, it is very rare, but it has happened before.

Now officially I can say that that's not true! (first of all I am making this comment friendly and I don't want to start any stupid snow battle, because we both are right but exactly not at all)

Isla Cristina, Huelva or Rota, Cádiz; NEVER registered any type of snow. If we are talking about other places that isn't our place, we can search things among the internet. I can say that in Malta is more concurrent to snow than the coast of southern Spain. I'm not saying this to start any battle. I'm saying this to show you even in your country the snow is more concurrent than in those places.

I am seeing snow records for Malta and I see that in the last 2 centuries 6 times was reported snow so that means an average for 3 times every century. Malta is quite small and the maximum altitude according to Wikipedia is 258m. But obviously if snowed in the 258m peak in St Paul's bay you don't got anything. But there is a recording for 1962 in the whole Malta island. Cádiz, or other places I mentioned before haven't registered any snow for more than a century, and others registered 1 in the whole 20 Century, meaning that in Malta it snows more than in a lot of places in coastal Spain. Isla Cristina and Rota never ever registered any snow. And I'm saying all of this by the sources my friend, I not invented them! I searched in a loot of places and never any mark of snow in those 2 places. but here: https://vassallohistory.wordpress.com/snow-storms-in-malta/you got snow on 1962 even in the beach. In Cádiz the snow doesn't arrived from the 19th century. I searched in more places that info to make sure it's trustworthy and I see the recordings (based on official sources) from Wikipedia, even Times Of Malta stating the same, 1962 "Malta got snow even on the beaches" , while in Cádiz or Huelva not.

In 1954 the snow arrived to Olhao and Faro, in Algarve, which are in the border with Huelva, but not arrived to Isla Cristina.

Lepe, a city in Huelva, installed a "snow making machine" which throws "snow" in the main plaza for the pedestrians for Christmas and in December: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/177933/0/lepe/maquinaria/nieve/, because snow is unseen. Or it happens 1 time at a century.

That's the unique kind of snow that they've seen in that part of Spain. Search any registering, I searched in a lot of forums, in the best spanish climate forums, where I found all the info about the snow registerings in Cádiz, Málaga, etc... and all those places and it don't got any any any record ever from Isla Cristina or Rota. Indeed it arrived at Algeciras one time in the last century, it arrived to Jerez too. But not to Rota. The same with Isla Cristina in Huelva, it arrived in Faro from Algarve and in Lepe which is quite close from Isla Cristina, but not to the city itself.

I am saying this because imagine if you say it's rare, because in Malta being a very crazy thing the snow, it snowed more than in some places of the coast of Spain. So imagine if it's rare! For me no snow recording in the last 100 years means a snow-less zone. But in those 2 zones, there isn't any snow record in the whole history. Even in Sevilla city, which is quite far from sea and it's quite at the interior of Spain, there isn't any snow from 1954, ABC says that, which is the 2nd or 3rd biggest/more important newspaper in Spain: "60 years accomplished from the last recording of snow in Sevilla capital" : http://sevilla.abc.es/sevilla/20140203/sevi-aniversario-nevada-sevilla-201402021916.html

In Almería city the same, in the whole recent history, they only got a snow recording in 1926 which the snow didn't settled, there were falling some light snowflakes; even in the worst cold wave at the history of Spain in Almeria don't arrived the snow and the freezing temps. This is the most recent photo of "snow" of Almería, and it wasn't snow because it was a heavy hail storm due to a "Supercélula" which is a severe storm in rotation and very "compiled" in the same clouds.

That's the most recent time when Almeria city got a "white cape" which was hail and not snow. This mainly occurs because in the north part of the city of Almería exists the Tabernas desert, which documentated it's the unique desert in Europe. But this desert is a special one, not like the deserts from the Sahara; it's "special" because it's very mountainous and the northern parts of the desert have mountains that arrive close to 2000m. Snow and cold remains in those mountains and they can get across the desert but they don't arrive very close to the coastline.

I don't want to make any battle. I am only referring in the fact that while being very rare, even in Malta can happen; and even it can be more concurrent or more recent. Regards

Here today we reached 22,1º and now we got 21ºC. A very good and sunny day. According to the previsions all the week will be about the same, with 19-20ºC as maximum predicted temperatures and from 10º to 13ºC minimum predicted temperatures.

Edited February 23, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[SouthSeaNate]

Lol, I don't know why you get so excited about comments people make

Yes snow is rare in coastal southern Spain, but once again for you to say it has NEVER snowed there is very incorrect. It doesn't matter how long ago it snowed, it has still been registered... Even in Malaga area there were snow flurries at sea level as recently as 2006 http://www.malaga-weather.com/article.69.html

And snow was last recorded in Malta in 1962, but it was not "at the beaches" but noted well inland at Ta Q'ali airfield, the link you posted to is quite incorrect, as it even said temperatures were below 0C, which has never happened in Malta. Even this report the Malta Met Office do not count as an official record as there is no evidence to back it up, if there had been such widespread snowfall, even on the beaches you would think there would be at least one photograph of it wouldn't you? Infact most reports of snow in the past here are thought to be graupel or soft hail. We had some of this fall here on New Years Eve, causing everyone on social media to get excited that it was "snowing" in Malta, again the Met Office confirmed it was simply soft hail, to those who have never seen snow it is a simple mistake to make. Even that link says it snowed on New Years Eve, when it was soft hail... As far as the Malta Met Office go snow has NEVER been recorded in Malta...

So to say snow is more likely in Malta than coastal Spain is laughable

It is extremely rare in both places but completely unheard of in coastal Malta & it may never have actually snowed at all anywhere in Malta.

Not that this makes any difference to how warm somewhere is, as has been said even tropical climates have reported snow in the past! So I'm not sure why you seem to have a problem with it ever having snowed, or why whenever anyone challenges what you say you then turn it into a climate competition...

Still raining here by the way...

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Lol, I don't know why you get so excited about comments people make

Yes snow is rare in coastal southern Spain, but once again for you to say it has NEVER snowed there is very incorrect. It doesn't matter how long ago it snowed, it has still been registered... Even in Malaga area there were snow flurries at sea level as recently as 2006 http://www.malaga-weather.com/article.69.html

And snow was last recorded in Malta in 1962, but it was not "at the beaches" but noted well inland at Ta Q'ali airfield, the link you posted to is quite incorrect, as it even said temperatures were below 0C, which has never happened in Malta. Even this report the Malta Met Office do not count as an official record as there is no evidence to back it up, if there had been such widespread snowfall, even on the beaches you would think there would be at least one photograph of it wouldn't you? Infact most reports of snow in the past here are thought to be graupel or soft hail. We had some of this fall here on New Years Eve, causing everyone on social media to get excited that it was "snowing" in Malta, again the Met Office confirmed it was simply soft hail, to those who have never seen snow it is a simple mistake to make. Even that link says it snowed on New Years Eve, when it was soft hail... As far as the Malta Met Office go snow has NEVER been recorded in Malta...

So to say snow is more likely in Malta than coastal Spain is laughable

It is extremely rare in both places but completely unheard of in coastal Malta & it may never have actually snowed at all anywhere in Malta.

Not that this makes any difference to how warm somewhere is, as has been said even tropical climates have reported snow in the past! So I'm not sure why you seem to have a problem with it ever having snowed, or why whenever anyone challenges what you say you then turn it into a climate competition...

Still raining here by the way...

You are misunderstaing me. I say it another time, it's not any battle, like I said it snowed in Miami or other places and you have a wrong thinking of me.

Not mate not in coastal Spain, in some places of coastal Spain like I said before, and yes, in Malta snows more than in some places of coastal Spain, like I say with the sources. do I need to put the articles again? This isn't any battle, I don't know why you are saying that. You have a envy climate for a lot of people and a very good climate. I'm not trying to say what you maybe think I want to. Because like I said before this isn't any competition mainly because Malta is a island surrounded by the warm currents of the Mediterranean sea along all the year. Even if I wanted to compete, I can't do that with you, at least from where I am living now in Valencia, at 10b. We have almost identical climates but you in winter have for average 2.5-3ºC bigger temps talking about lows and you are in zone 11a, while here the frozens are extremely rare in your place the frozens never happened.

And we were talking about Cádiz, Rota and Isla Cristina, not Málaga. Even with that, it's not laughable by any way because while Malta got 3 snow recordings on the 20th century Cádiz got none, so in Malta we can officialy say that the snow is more concurrent than in Almería, Cádiz, Isla Cristina, Rota, and other places. Seville itself recorded it's last snow on 1964, and Seville it's quite at the interior...

And it's not any climate competition! Maybe you want to make that "competition" ¿? This is the first time in those last posts that I mentione any part which is not from Spain, and like I said I say this for reference, because you can see that even in Malta snow can be more concurrent than in some places of coastal Spain. With your last statement you induce to think (at least to me) that you are misundersteanding and undervaluating the climate of those places, because all I said before I said it with sources and links, not because that info is stored in my head.

And it snowed even in Miami BTW. You are making some hard statements for being an foreigner. Like the mistakes I did with you the last month and you corrected me, making me see that you were right and my information was bad and it wasn't true. I agree you with that, but this time you are doing to me the same thing I did with you the last time we had a discussion, and i'm correcting those statements, i'm not making any battle my friend!

BTW like I said I searched for that data because it's from a blog, and you can see here too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Malta#Records with Times Of Malta references. They say that those temps below freezing aren't recorded as official. But the snow reports are official. Maybe you still think me that I have a challenging actitude or I'm involved in a climate battle but I can ensure you that you're 100% wrong. Something was the error I've made the last month (and that not was a battle at all) but this... This is the first time I mentioned another place outside Spain for God's sake! like I said you I am writing this friendly and for reference. You have a bad image of me

And referring to that thing with Málaga. That's not true. Have you readed well the article? Because I did, and it says clearly: "DRIVERS FROM MÁLAGA TO ALORA SAW A MIXTURE OF SLEET AND SOME FLAKES OF SNOW MIXED WITH THE RAIN" (I don't write this in big letters because i'm shouting at you, it's because i'm quoting the article) Málaga coastline didn't get any snow in 2006.

In those forums were talking about that thing, because in those places at the interior don't snowed for more than 25 years until 2006: (but they're saying that the lowest snow mark was inland at 250m above sea level)

http://www.cazatormentas.net/foro/reportajes-meteorolgicos/excepcionales-nevadas-en-la-provincia-de-malaga-(29-enero-2006)/

http://foro.tiempo.com/a-cinco-pasos-de-malaga-nieve-t41455.0.html

Please search Alora. It's at the interior of Málaga and it's surrounded by high altitude mountains. Alora itself it's somewhere between 200 and 300m altitude so for Alora the snow is rare. Is rare but it falls maybe 1 time every 20-25-30 years. But that's not the coastline. Like they say, they approached to the coastline but not arrived. But that's normal, like I said before all the southern coast of Spain is very very mountainous, and you can be at Motril looking at the sea and in a hour drive you can get to the snow at 3000m altitude mountains:

There are places that are ar 400-500m altitude and they're 4-5km far from the sea. You got a near 3500m mountain 60km from the sea. That part is very mountainous. And if you aren't spanish and if you translate spanish news/forums/etc the translation may induce you to error like happened now. Because, they can say "Malaga got snow" but they refer to Málaga province which is not formed by Málaga city, they refer to all the province.

Regards

Edited February 23, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

If you are really interested please read it all, I know that the post is quite long. But please read it at all and see that in any moment I have any "challenging intention" or any "challenging attitude"

I only mentioned Malta like i mentioned Jacksonville or Miami. Not for any battle. You have a very wrong impression of me and you think that i'm still involved in those stupid climate battles. I made some mistakes last month, yes; but you showed me that what I knowed was wrong and I agreed with you because you were right. But you still think that I got a challenging intention and that's not true. Read carefully all of my last posts and say me where is the battle intention. I only say that even Malta has more snow recordings than some places I mentione. That not means that snow is frequent, that not means that i'm undervaluating your climate, etc... because I even't mentioned what climate you have, which is very good certainly. You know that because you are the maltese here, not me. And i'm the spanish here, not you. You are making statements very sure without certain sources... I only say what the sources say, and this isn't any challenging intention, we can speak without being in any discussion... You can think that because you may have a bad image of me... yes, I "won" that, the last month being quite rude and being quite locked-minded, but if you say something from here that I know it's not correct I will try to correct it and say it with sources and trusty info. I'm not seeing that like an "attack" for me because that isn't any attack my friend...

Kind regards

Edited February 23, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Here yesterday was a quite good today, and finally a day that was 100% sunny but quite strong winds. Now we got 14°C.

Maximum and minimum temperatures for Monday, 23th February, were 22,1°/14,7° ; maximum reached at 14:00 and minimum at 07:00

Now we got 14° and falling down a little bit; so today will be a colder day.

Edited February 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[SouthSeaNate]

You are comparing Apples to Oranges in any case... You are comparing the very warmest & least snow prone areas of Spain, to the coldest & most snow prone areas of Malta. Snow has NEVER been officially recorded in Malta, reports of snow in the past are just that, reports from people, there is no evidence other than "someone" saw it.

The Malta Met Office has NEVER recorded any snow falling ever, but even if we take those 6 reports of the last 200 years & say it did indeed snow, those reports are from the highest ground in inland areas of Malta, NOT from the coast, It is impossible for it to snow here at the coast, as we are a tiny island & even in winter the sea temperatures drop no lower than 15C. The lowest temperature ever recorded at the airport INLAND is 1.4C & another station inland has a record low of 2.6C, so here at the coast it is unlikely to have ever dropped any lower than 3C or 4C, Indeed at the end of December when central southern Europe had the period of very cold weather, which caused freezing temperatures & snow even on the beaches of southern Italy & Sicily, in Malta it was record breaking cold, but the airport only dropped to 2.8C a RECORD low for December & here at the coast it dropped to just 6C, as with a northerly airflow the cold air is warmed by the sea before it reaches here...

I keep weather records of my own & I also provide rainfall records to the Malta Weather Service, who are an independant weather agency to the Met Office. I converse with them regularly & they have an extensive collection of weather records going back 200 years from various sources, including old newspaper cuttings & books written about the climate/weather here. They are also of the impression that it is unlikely to have ever snowed in Malta & that all historical reports are likely to have been graupel/soft hail. But even if it did snow those 6 times, it never did at the coast, only only the hills in the centre of the island.

So if you really want to compare Spain with Malta, you can say that snow in coastal southern Spain is as likely as snow in inland, high ground in Malta.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I didn't compare any place with any place. That's your invention. I'M DON'T COMPARING ANYTHING LIKE I SAID FOR THE 10th TIME...

I only said Malta like I said Jacksonville. So please don't search things where they aren't, I don't have any bad intention.

Now you are speaking about temps... I even't mentioned temperatures. Like I said is normally because Malta is a tiny island in the warmest currents of the Mediterranean sea and you got no altitude. In Crete for example snows starting at the mid/high mountains, but in Malta with 258m altitude the highest peak... There isn't much difference.

I don't know because we still talking about Malta because I really don't care so much about it. But now you've made a battle to say how wonderful your climate is and I even't started or continued the battle, and I even't mentioned temperatures or your climate! I don't care my friend about your climate, I said you before that is very great. I only referred to those links with the snow but you know what? I don't want to keep this, ok? So please next time we'll talk about Himalayas if you want, but not this nonesenseless discusion about Malta coz I'm not comparing any climate.

You've made some statements and I replied to them, if someones say 'Malta' you quickly reply him, if someone says 'Portugal' someone will reply him, and if someone will say 'Spain' the normal thing is that the unique spanish user in this thread, meaning me, it's normal to be the only one replying, or not?

Because like you reply about your place I reply about mine. But now I'm the only one that even can't reply lol because if I reply you at any not-true statement you think that i'm 'attacking' only for replying. Even without mentioning your climate lol, only mentioning mine...

Perhaps this is isn't any battle so I will request you to stop this discussion because you misunderstanded me from the first time and now we go to a understanding. Ok.

But one thing my friend, the link you putted don't mentione any snow at coastline, because in Málaga that didn't happened for more than a half of century. They mentione snow at towns between mountains at 250-300m altitude which didn't get snow for the last 25 years and they get a light snow in 2006. (in more altitude they got a quite important snow which is abnormal in those places too) And they say that arrived quite near to the sea. Normally having high altitude mountains over all the south coast of Spain like I said. But at the coastline or low altitude was only rain, not a single snowflake and even't no sleet.

http://www.cazatormentas.net/foro/reportajes-meteorolgicos/excepcionales-nevadas-en-la-provincia-de-malaga-(29-enero-2006)/

http://foro.tiempo.com/a-cinco-pasos-de-malaga-nieve-t41455.0.html

RETURNING TO THE THREAD:

Here today quite colder than yesterday; 17°C as maximum temperature only but predictions changed and the predicted temps for the next days are from 19 to 25°C and minimum from 10 to 14.

Regards!

Edited February 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Interesting weather we have these days. Yesterday we had rainy night, but day was sunny. Minimal temperatures in Dubrovnik area where in 11-12°C range, maximum temperatures where in 16-17°C range in shade.

Last night was again rainy, but today we where sunny again. Minimal temperatures again in 11-12°C range and maximum temperatures 16-17°C range today.

Temperatures right now at 16:00h ( 4:00 pm ).

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Wow looks great, spring is approaching!

A little bit of offtopic; today I've found some photos on the internet of naturalised Phoenixes in Murcia. Do you guys have naturalised exemplars near you ? Here I never seen naturalised palms as big as those ones, but it seems in Murcia, with a more arid climate, they like to grow more than here; in Almería too, in the middle of the desert i've seen some big ones too.

For their looking they appear to be naturalised, right? They are in the middle of nowhere near wild plants and near the river, and by their looking they seem that they never get any type of care and they weren't pruned never :

Edited February 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[SouthSeaNate]

Yes you did compare & bring Malta into the discussion when we were discussing Spain, YOU brought up Malta & claimed snow was more likely here than in coastal southern Spain

If you intend to do it or not, you started a silly "climate battle" once again, by bringing someone elses climate into a discussion. I wasn't saying I had a wonderful climate, just trying to explain to you how difficult it is to snow here as opposed to Spain. You are part of a large landmass so can get colder snaps & snow, Malta is a tiny island surrounded by relatively warm water even in winter, so it is almost impossible for it to snow here. Your bigger landmass means that in Spain it soon heats up in spring, but in Malta as the sea takes longer to warm up it takes longer for the weather to heat up too. But conversely in the autumn & early winter Malta stays warmer, especially at night, than many other parts of the Med, as the sea takes a long time to cool down too. That is why the climates of Spain & Malta are quite different...

I am very happy to change the subject, but don't try to deny what you have done, as anyone reading the thread can see, once again, what you did

Anyway...

Today started sunny, but rain this afternoon. Maximum was 16.3C after a low of 13.1C. Looks like we lose the wet weather by the weekend thankfully...

[Cikas]

Total rainfall we had this month so far in mm.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Yes you did compare & bring Malta into the discussion when we were discussing Spain, YOU brought up Malta & claimed snow was more likely here than in coastal southern Spain

If you intend to do it or not, you started a silly "climate battle" once again, by bringing someone elses climate into a discussion. I wasn't saying I had a wonderful climate, just trying to explain to you how difficult it is to snow here as opposed to Spain. You are part of a large landmass so can get colder snaps & snow, Malta is a tiny island surrounded by relatively warm water even in winter, so it is almost impossible for it to snow here. Your bigger landmass means that in Spain it soon heats up in spring, but in Malta as the sea takes longer to warm up it takes longer for the weather to heat up too. But conversely in the autumn & early winter Malta stays warmer, especially at night, than many other parts of the Med, as the sea takes a long time to cool down too. That is why the climates of Spain & Malta are quite different...

I am very happy to change the subject, but don't try to deny what you have done, as anyone reading the thread can see, once again, what you did

Anyway...

Today started sunny, but rain this afternoon. Maximum was 16.3C after a low of 13.1C. Looks like we lose the wet weather by the weekend thankfully...

Yup, anyone reading the thread can see what I did and what you did, I agree with that

Last time it was my fault and I started it, I recognise it; but this time you started it because you were misunderstanding me. You started to make "very sure statements" about a place you don't know. And when I seen that you took the freedom to talk about Spain, only having a bit of idea of Spain, then I talked about Malta saying what the sources say, while you starting this discussion saying "indeed snow has fallen everywhere in Spain" ... while I even't mentioned Malta. I only mentioned it saying you are wrong after your statement. But for you I started the discussion ... Are you really?

Like you put the source from the snow in Málaga in 2006 and you even misunderstanded what your own source say Bringing someone climate is not starting any discussion. Because if that was a discussion you started it a long time ago my friend, making statements (which I quoted upwards) about Spain.

And I only mentioned the recordings, like I did in Jacksonville, Miami, Almería, Cádiz or Crete FOR REFERENCE. That's not any battle. If you want to see that as a battle ok, but I can ensure you that you are 100% wrong. And everyone reading this post can see who was with a bad attitude and who started attacking others saying "snow has fallen everywhere" while that's not true. Everytime I say something about Malta you start attacking me, and when you say something about Spain I don't care of what you say. But if you say statements that aren't true I have to correct them because i'm the only spaniard in this thread. I recognise it, last time I made and mistake and you corrected me, like I said another time; but now... you misunderstanded me like I said before because you are very concentrated seeing if someone says something about your country, even in the good mod.

I'm not trying to deny nothing, you are the one trying to denying it, and everyone can see it my friend. If I made two "disputes" back in time here, that doesn't means that i'm still with that attitude, like you maybe can think...

If you see that like a challenge, even while you are the one this time starting making statements that aren't true... Well, ok. I'll respect your opinion. When I will want to make a reference for the warm European islands I will use Crete, Sardinia, Sicily, Cyprus... because our mates here don't see that like an attack only for mentioning their places like I don't see any "attack" if you reference/mentione my country. Even if you say true things/trustworthy with sources things I'll not even say anything about it. One thing is what happened last time like saying oooo look at that climate it's 10b not 11a ooo you got frozens ooo , etc... and one thing it's saying for references "according to this website, it snowed in this year and blablabla" if that's an attack my friend... Well, be calm that I'll not use your island anymore even for references, if you have that point of view, ok?

This is the last post I write something about this nonesenseless discussion that I don't even started. Kind regards.

Edited February 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*