Butia paraguayensis and its hybrids

[Tropicdoc]

OK, what does Butia paraguayensis really look like? Does it really have a trunk diameter less than a foot? If so, wouldn't that mean a syagrus hybrid would have a trunk somewhere between the queen father and the paraguayensis? Then, you have a slim trunk mule palm for a tropical look. And wouldn't that mean that my paraguayensis x parajubaea hybrids would end up with a slim trunk? Still on the quest for the cold-hardy tropical look. Help me out here guys.

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes....those would be my thoughts as well.....need to order one from Patric...however in my case the wife has curtailed all palm purchases until spear pulled small mules show if they can recover or not

[Tropicdoc]

Ouch!

[Kailua_Krish]

My paraguayensis is shorter and has bluish/grey-er leaves than other Butia I have. Its by no means full grown but it seems to be building a fatter trunk rather than growing taller. Unfortunately I don't have a good photo of it right now. If I recall correctly the parent of the hybrids from Dick Douglas's garden is posted in the garden gallery forum.

[Tropicdoc]

Ill check the garden gallery, thanks

[Josh-O]

Yes....those would be my thoughts as well.....need to order one from Patric...however in my case the wife has curtailed all palm purchases until spear pulled small mules show if they can recover or not

Keep us posted on the progress of those mules

[JLeVert]

Here is B. paraguayensis in Augusta, GA. The seed is much smaller than B. odorata and the leaves starting showing some burn around 18F unlike odorata, yatay and eriospatha. It has been through 13F and lived, but with foliage damage.

Here is another picture showing some of the foliage damage on the older leaves.

[Tropicdoc]

Thanks, it looks like it does have a short, narrow trunk.

[LivistonaFan]

Does anyone have a big Butia paraguayensis x Syagrus rom. today? This hybrid has been available for more than a decade and I am pretty sure some folks in California or Florida have some for a few years in ground.

 

I can photograph mine tomorrow (not 100% certain that it is one) but it is still strap-leaved and not impressive to look at.

[Steve in Florida]

Pure Butia paraguayensis is a fast grower.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Steve in Florida

[LivistonaFan]

21 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

Pure Butia paraguayensis is a fast grower.

That is good to know. By fast growing do you mean:
     a) it gets very early to maturity (flowers early)

     b) gets quickly to the trunking stage

or  c) grows many leafs per year?

 

If you have one: What is the trunk diameter with its leaf bases cleaned off? More than 30 cm/ 12 in or less? A slim Paraguayensis Mule would be great imo. And maybe a great subject to F2-hybridization with Parajubaea, that could be a great-looking cold hardy palm.

 

Here is my hybrid (on the left) next to a standard Syagrus romanzoffiana just for the purpose of comparison. They should be about the same age, got repotted the same time in the same pot, grow in very similar soil and stand next to each other the whole year. Therefore I can directly compare their growth.

 

PS: Both haven't been properly acclimatized to full sun (hence the damaged leafs). None of them has grown this year despite two weeks of consistent highs between 20 and 26 °C. Maybe the nights were to cold (between 4 and 11°C). But my other palms have already grown this year outside (Parajubaea TvM and Phoenix Canariensis 1.5 leafs, Washingtonia robusta 1 leaf, Washingtonia filifera 2/3 leaf, Phoenix Dactylifera 1/2 leaf. )

[Tropicdoc]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:00 PM, LivistonaFan said:

Does anyone have a big Butia paraguayensis x Syagrus rom. today? This hybrid has been available for more than a decade and I am pretty sure some folks in California or Florida have some for a few years in ground.

 

I can photograph mine tomorrow (not 100% certain that it is one) but it is still strap-leaved and not impressive to look at.

Is this what California calls the Poni mule?

[RJ]

23 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

Is this what California calls the Poni mule?

Not sure but I always referred to half kegs of beer as Poni Kegs growing up. It was always a big decision for a party. Should we get a full keg or a Poni? Sux to run out of beer in the midst of a jammin' party.  

Based on that analogy I would say a Poni mule fits the bill.   

[LivistonaFan]

21 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Is this what California calls the Poni mule?

"Within the species B. paraguayensis there are several variations like Butia dyerana, Butia poni, Butia pungens, Butia amadelpha, Butia wildemaniana, but now all this variations are grouped into the generical name of Butia paraguayensis with subterranean trunk or with visible trunk and also diferences in the size of the leaves"

(http://www.pacsoa.org.au/wiki/Butia_paraguayensis)

 

Therefore my palm could well be a Poni mule and if you know of other specimen  (maybe you even own one yourself?) feel free to post a photo here.

 

[Tropicdoc]

Bump anybody got a pic of a butia paraguayensis x syagrus?

[Chris Chance]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:01 PM, Tropicdoc said:

Bump anybody got a pic of a butia paraguayensis x syagrus?

I have one that was planted 5 years ago as a seedling. It's a pretty quick grower here and looks like a miniature mule. It has flowers emerging now. 

[GregVirginia7]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:26 PM, RJ said:

Not sure but I always referred to half kegs of beer as Poni Kegs growing up. It was always a big decision for a party. Should we get a full keg or a Poni? Sux to run out of beer in the midst of a jammin' party.  

Based on that analogy I would say a Poni mule fits the bill.   

...our “Ponies” were in a heavy duty cardboard case of 42, 7 oz. green bottles. No twist off caps...our lesser kegs were called quarter kegs And there was never enough...

[Tropicdoc]

On 6/6/2021 at 5:26 PM, Chris Chance said:

I have one that was planted 5 years ago as a seedling. It's a pretty quick grower here and looks like a miniature mule. It has flowers emerging now. 

How long are the fronds?

[Chris Chance]

38 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

How long are the fronds?

I would guess about 8 feet.

[freakypalmguy]

Here is a picture of Dick’s Butia paraguayensis taken apx 10 years ago. This is the mother that Patric used for the cross.

[freakypalmguy]

Here are some pics of my 8 year old B. paraguayensis X Queen. The fronds are twisted

Edit: it’s been very neglected and that’s a US size 11 flip flop

Edited June 8, 2021 by freakypalmguy

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

15 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

Here are some pics of my 8 year old B. paraguayensis X Queen. The fronds are twisted

Good looking palm , definitely more ornamental then your regular Mule. 

T J 

[Tropicdoc]

On 6/8/2021 at 7:29 PM, freakypalmguy said:

Here is a picture of Dick’s Butia paraguayensis taken apx 10 years ago. This is the mother that Patric used for the cross.

I believe that is the mother of my b x pic 

[Chris Chance]

On 6/8/2021 at 4:29 PM, freakypalmguy said:

Here is a picture of Dick’s Butia paraguayensis taken apx 10 years ago. This is the mother that Patric used for the cross.

Interesting so that means mine came from there too!

[freakypalmguy]

6 hours ago, Chris Chance said:

Interesting so that means mine came from there too!

That was the only one Dick had and I’m pretty sure the only one Patrick used 

[freakypalmguy]

Here’s a couple other Butia in my garden, both apx 17 years old, in the ground for 15. Purchased as small one gal palms. I’m unsure if their id’s are correct.

Butia paraguayensis

Butia sp. paraguay 

[Tropicdoc]

Thought my b x pjc looked nice this morning after the rain

[BeyondTheGarden]

Goodness that's gorgeous. 

[Matt N- Dallas]

Here’s B. Paraguayensis x Syagrus growing in San Marcos, TX z8b -pic taken last Feb.  It is much slimmer than a standard mule.  Planted as a 3g in 2015. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Unreal!

[Trustandi]

They are so pretty. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

22 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

Here’s B. Paraguayensis x Syagrus growing in San Marcos, TX z8b -pic taken last Feb.  It is much slimmer than a standard mule.  Planted as a 3g in 2015. 

These should be called the skinny mule haha What kind of damage did it see during Palmageddon? 

T J 

[Matt N- Dallas]

This and my other Butia hybrids were protected during the Valentine’s Day massacre.  I defoliated, wrapped with 40’ heating cables and then wrapped w/ cotton painter’s tarps + plastic tarps.  They all survived with no damage and have been happily growing since March.  

[Tropicdoc]

2 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

This and my other Butia hybrids were protected during the Valentine’s Day massacre.  I defoliated, wrapped with 40’ heating cables and then wrapped w/ cotton painter’s tarps + plastic tarps.  They all survived with no damage and have been happily growing since March.  

Strong work on the protection. The skinny mule is awesome. How long are the fronds? 10 ft?

[Tropicdoc]

bump. How's the "skinny mule"?

Are we sure it's not just skinny from the shade?

[Robbertico18]

Double bump

[Dwarf Fan]

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/profile/263-matt-n-dallas/
 

 Matt N-Dallas can we get an updated pic on that skinny trunk Poni Mule?

[Tropicdoc]

Bump

[epiphyte]

does b. paraguayensis x syagrus flower and fruit?  

[Scott W]

10 hours ago, epiphyte said:

does b. paraguayensis x syagrus flower and fruit?  

If it does the seed would/should be sterile like any other Butia x syagrus cross