Acrocomia aculeata and shade?

[Kostas]

Hello

Can Acrocomia aculeata start in shade and grow to the sun as they get taller or are they too weak or sensitive to rot in such a setting? Would they be too slow in such a case or grow reasonably well?

Thank you very much in advance!

[Moose]

Hello

Can Acrocomia aculeata start in shade and grow to the sun as they get taller or are they too weak or sensitive to rot in such a setting? Would they be too slow in such a case or grow reasonably well?

Thank you very much in advance!

I think it would grow to the sun. Yes - lots of shading would slow it down. At least that is my experience with my conditions - your results could vary.

[Kostas]

Thanks Ron! Good to know it doesn't mind too much

[QUINNPALMS]

I have one that gets only am sun , does great!

[Alicehunter2000]

I've found most "full sun" species do fine In shade just usually more stretched out.

[Josh-O]

I think Alicehunter summed it up best.

[Moose]

I've found most "full sun" species do fine In shade just usually more stretched out.

Pretty much that s true. Back in my container ranch days, the Acrocomia was left "temporarily" under the mango tree with many others. Since others demanded attention they were planted first, the Acrocomia accepted the shady conditions and looked fine - so it remained there for two years until I got around to finally getting it into the ground. There very thorny nature requires them to be situated in an area that has little foot traffic.

[Phoenikakias]

Mine (both aculeata and totai) grow in deep shade and are quite slow, but I am not sure whether this is only a coincidence!

[tank]

Mine (both aculeata and totai) grow in deep shade and are quite slow, but I am not sure whether this is only a coincidence!

I agree, I have a couple in shady spots to protect them from frost. They are much slower than the couple I have planted out in more exposed locations.

The ones in deep shade never defoliate though, they're just REAL slow.

The palms planted in exposed locations are about as fast as a queen, although they have defoliated every year for the past 4 years that they have been in the ground.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replies and for sharing your experiences with it!

I know and have always considered that shade growing ''full sun species'' is ok and feasible, though they are bound to be slower. But i also figure that they would be more rot prone as well in the shade, thats why i thought i would ask how Acrocomia does in shade. I had one (very stressed out from arriving bareroot) specimen rot in the shade, while another slightly less stressed and stronger one is recovering well in a spot with more sun that stays drier.

Great to know i can considered planting an Acrocomia in the shade again, thank you very much!

And just to have a picture in this thread as well, here is my recovering Acrocomia aculeata

It arrived in August and has stabilized and put out half a leaf since then. Hope to see it make a fast and full recovery and gain lots of size this summer if possible!

[Moose]

Thank you very much for your replies and for sharing your experiences with it!

I know and have always considered that shade growing ''full sun species'' is ok and feasible, though they are bound to be slower. But i also figure that they would be more rot prone as well in the shade, thats why i thought i would ask how Acrocomia does in shade. I had one (very stressed out from arriving bareroot) specimen rot in the shade, while another slightly less stressed and stronger one is recovering well in a spot with more sun that stays drier.

Great to know i can considered planting an Acrocomia in the shade again, thank you very much!

And just to have a picture in this thread as well, here is my recovering Acrocomia aculeata

It arrived in August and has stabilized and put out half a leaf since then. Hope to see it make a fast and full recovery and gain lots of size this summer if possible!

Oh it did take a hurting. Despite its flimsy thin leaflets, its a pretty darn tough species. If it did not die, I'm sure you will probably see recovery this upcoming growing season. Best bet is put it out of sight and don't look at it. Then come May you may see how well its made a come back.

[Kostas]

Yeah, it took a hurting big time! Its sibling died. This one put out new growth instead and has gotten its new growth firm and good. Its become a healthier green color than the full yellow it arrived and the leaf is sturdy. This is a species i have long wanted to grow, so I am always on the look for a new spear, but this leaf hasn't fully emerged yet. I

It has such a well developed root system and a thick underground base(that is spiny as well, learnt that the hard way when trying to handle it from below to avoid the spines, that much i knew! Apparently the underground spines are an adaptation for preventing armadillo damage) that i was amazed to see them take such a downturn from arriving too dry. I want to bring and add 1-2 more, and i will handle them slightly differently this time to see if it makes a difference. I am gonna go with sand as medium and give them half day sun, maybe the better contact between the roots and the sand will make a difference during the early establishment phase...

[Kostas]

May is here now and my Acrocomia is showing a new spear! Looking forward to see it grow big, fast!

And here are 2 new Acrocomia aculeata i brought 2 months ago from Florida. They are already starting to recover and try to open their new leafs, though i am sure the process and recovery will be slow. I probably won't be ground planting them till fall and i am babying them to make sure they both recover successfully. A favourite species!

[Alicehunter2000]

Mean looking palm

[DoomsDave]

Full sun, regular water.

Avoid nudists . . . .

[Kostas]

There ain't no sun for the wicked, there is no drought for these palms...

I moved them to less hours of sun to decrease their water needs somewhat and allow them to open their leafs sooner, but also to get them out of overhead watering to better regulate their soil moisture and minimize the wetting of their crown.

This is the perfect species to walk barefoot under...

[Cikas]

Great news. They will be a great additions to your garden.

[amazondk]

Around my part of the tropics I have only seen these palms growing in disturbed areas that have been cut and burned. They tend to be a secondary vegetation plant. And, normally have some association with human habitation. They are found sprouting up around Manaus in areas of vacant lots sometimes. They seem to do well when they are in areas that get burned over occasionally.

[Josh-O]

Kostas, These guys are very tough. I dug a 22' tall specimen and it is doing just fine. Only the lower leaves browned and its now puching 4 new spikes.

[Kostas]

Thanks Jurica

Thank you very much for the habitat information Don! Great to know! So they probably benefit from more sun and being a little drier than the rainforest. Have you even seen them coming up from below the rainforest canopy?

Thats great to hear Josh! I also expected good drought tolerance from them but the leafs get really beaten up and brown from the trip already when arriving bareroot even when other seemingly less drought tolerant plants arrive in better condition. They do seem to have good survivability though. It was a shame one rotted from the previous import, they are vulnerable till they establish and a shady wet area at a time when the spear was still soft and not moving much(due to dehydration), proved too much for it. At least the other survived and is establishing in the ground while the new ones are recovering

[richnorm]

Mine is very prone to rot in our cool damp climate but has good powers of recovery and grows fast in the warmer months. I think shade would be fatal in my garden. They are also one of those palms that does much better when planted.

[amazondk]

Thanks Jurica

Thank you very much for the habitat information Don! Great to know! So they probably benefit from more sun and being a little drier than the rainforest. Have you even seen them coming up from below the rainforest canopy?

Thats great to hear Josh! I also expected good drought tolerance from them but the leafs get really beaten up and brown from the trip already when arriving bareroot even when other seemingly less drought tolerant plants arrive in better condition. They do seem to have good survivability though. It was a shame one rotted from the previous import, they are vulnerable till they establish and a shady wet area at a time when the spear was still soft and not moving much(due to dehydration), proved too much for it. At least the other survived and is establishing in the ground while the new ones are recovering

I have not seen them other than in relatively open areas. I think at the most they are a secondary forest tree around here. My feeling is that in Amazonia they have link to humans in their distribution. Not that they would be considered domesticated but there is an association being in disturbed land suffering human intervention. People do consume the fruit.

dk

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience Rich!

Where does it show rot problems for you? On the leafs, at the underground leaf bases or at the roots/underground trunk?

The ground planted one seems to have established enough to show faster growth this growing season after 9months in the ground now. If I had the spots ready, I would definitely ground plant the new, potted ones too, but won't risk planting one in wet shade again, especially after hearing that they are not found anywhere in shade in their habitat as well. I will try to establish them well in the pots and prepare their planting spots before winter

Thanks again for the habitat information Don, most helpful!

I also read they pretty much thrive in degraded areas and love human settlements, just as you say. Some claim that fire helps with seed germination as well which has been impossible for me even after 5 years with seeds of this genus(and Attalea). I will give them part shade at the most then and will try for mostly sunny spots. Hope they grow like weeds here too!

Have you tasted the fruit maybe? Is it good tasting? Is it spiny or not in most specimen?

[richnorm]

Every other year or so I get deformed leaves in early summer. I'm assuming this is a result of winter damage. It results in a damaged trunk too. Some have attributed this kind of abnormality to excess nitrogen but I feed my palms very lightly so don't think this is the problem for me. In any case I will cease all fertilisation as a precaution. When it looks good it looks really good, photos don't do these justice.

[richnorm]

Forgot to add, the nuts are really good eating!

[amazondk]

Thanks again for the habitat information Don, most helpful!

I also read they pretty much thrive in degraded areas and love human settlements, just as you say. Some claim that fire helps with seed germination as well which has been impossible for me even after 5 years with seeds of this genus(and Attalea). I will give them part shade at the most then and will try for mostly sunny spots. Hope they grow like weeds here too!

Have you tasted the fruit maybe? Is it good tasting? Is it spiny or not in most specimen?

I have eaten the fruit. I was not really crazy about it. There are much better palm fruits such as the Astrocaryum aculeatum, tucumã. If I remember right it is possible to remove the outer shell of the seed to speed germination. This palm is the most widely dispersed of any palm tree in Brazil. The only trees I have seen are spiny.

dk

[Kostas]

Rich,

I see the deformed leafs you get in some of your palms after winter and a deficiency of some kind, mainly Boron, comes to mind rather than winter damage. You get a huge amount of rainfall there and this can easily leach the soil of some of the rare minerals, Boron being an especially easy one to lose after a heavy downpour, how much more after months of pouring rain(Boron deficiencies also cause trunk damage if severe). I get Boron deficient leafs here as well after our rainy winters, so I fertilize well with a complete fertilizer during winter and spring to avoid such deficiencies. I think that would work for you too and maybe you can grow well some of the marginals that have a tough time with deformed leads after winter, as they otherwise survive fine for you

Have you tried the fruit too? It's supposedly edible. How do you crack the nuts? They are very hard, they refused to crack with a sledgehammer here for me.

Don,

What did it taste like? I read something like "oily" but was hoping it might taste somewhat nice. I plan on growing Astrocaryum mexicanum which is hardy and nice, I don't think I can grow A. aculeatum but will look it up.

I meant if the fruit is spiny. I see photos of Acrocomia with spiny fruits and others with glabrus, spineless fruits. I actually like the look of spiny fruits on the palm better

[richnorm]

Could be boron though I am on clay so leaching is less of a problem. I am wary about adding boron having made a mess of this in the past! I much prefer a mostly organic approach. Seems Acrocomia, Bentinckia and Hyophorbes are most prone to this issue and happen to be my most heat demanding palms. It also happens to potted palms under cover from the rain so think temperature is a big factor. Certainly the regrowth would suggest it is not a simple fungal issue so "rot" is admittedly not the best description of this malady. I guess there just comes a point where the temperature is too low for metabolic processes to occur normally.

I ate the nuts only. They taste a little like macadamia.

[Kostas]

I am also on clay but do get Boron deficiencies from all the rains here but also from drought(drought locks Boron in the clay and palms can't uptake it). I am also not a fan of chemical fertilizers so my approach is to mulch and add a healthy quantity of an organic, complete fertilizer that also contains Boron, and this solves the problem. With preemptive applications every now and then, I now mostly avoid Boron deficiencies.

A pot is even more easy to leach off Boron, especially if it's an older plant in it that has been growing for some years. I am sure part of it may be due to metabolic insufficiency from low temperatures, but boron containing fertilizers help a lot in my case.

A rot problem would manifest with slow growth after winter and maybe going back to smaller leaf sizes. Boron deficiency could also accompany it as well as a series of other deficiencies due to the negatively affected root mass but generally, the health would be quite affected the first months and would recover very fast. A palm with just Boron deficiency on the other hand, would grow pretty fast and be strongly, the new growth would just show typical Boron deficiency symptoms

[amazondk]

Rich,

I see the deformed leafs you get in some of your palms after winter and a deficiency of some kind, mainly Boron, comes to mind rather than winter damage. You get a huge amount of rainfall there and this can easily leach the soil of some of the rare minerals, Boron being an especially easy one to lose after a heavy downpour, how much more after months of pouring rain(Boron deficiencies also cause trunk damage if severe). I get Boron deficient leafs here as well after our rainy winters, so I fertilize well with a complete fertilizer during winter and spring to avoid such deficiencies. I think that would work for you too and maybe you can grow well some of the marginals that have a tough time with deformed leads after winter, as they otherwise survive fine for you

Have you tried the fruit too? It's supposedly edible. How do you crack the nuts? They are very hard, they refused to crack with a sledgehammer here for me.

Don,

What did it taste like? I read something like "oily" but was hoping it might taste somewhat nice. I plan on growing Astrocaryum mexicanum which is hardy and nice, I don't think I can grow A. aculeatum but will look it up.

I meant if the fruit is spiny. I see photos of Acrocomia with spiny fruits and others with glabrus, spineless fruits. I actually like the look of spiny fruits on the palm better

The only fruits that I have seen have been smooth. The pulp of the fruit is sort of sticky.

[amazondk]

Here is an old habitat picture I found.

[Moose]

Could be boron though I am on clay so leaching is less of a problem. I am wary about adding boron having made a mess of this in the past! I much prefer a mostly organic approach. Seems Acrocomia, Bentinckia and Hyophorbes are most prone to this issue and happen to be my most heat demanding palms. It also happens to potted palms under cover from the rain so think temperature is a big factor. Certainly the regrowth would suggest it is not a simple fungal issue so "rot" is admittedly not the best description of this malady. I guess there just comes a point where the temperature is too low for metabolic processes to occur normally.

I ate the nuts only. They taste a little like macadamia.

Do you roast them or eat them raw ? They are pretty darn hard. Mine has been seeding for years, never knew they were palatable. I've yet to have one sprout in my mulch beneath the palm. Most of the seed gets collected by those who want to germinate their own tree. The squirrels usually just eat the outer layer, but have eaten the nuts sometimes.

[richnorm]

Could be boron though I am on clay so leaching is less of a problem. I am wary about adding boron having made a mess of this in the past! I much prefer a mostly organic approach. Seems Acrocomia, Bentinckia and Hyophorbes are most prone to this issue and happen to be my most heat demanding palms. It also happens to potted palms under cover from the rain so think temperature is a big factor. Certainly the regrowth would suggest it is not a simple fungal issue so "rot" is admittedly not the best description of this malady. I guess there just comes a point where the temperature is too low for metabolic processes to occur normally.

I ate the nuts only. They taste a little like macadamia.

Do you roast them or eat them raw ? They are pretty darn hard. Mine has been seeding for years, never knew they were palatable. I've yet to have one sprout in my mulch beneath the palm. Most of the seed gets collected by those who want to germinate their own tree. The squirrels usually just eat the outer layer, but have eaten the nuts sometimes.

Raw, tasted good to me. They were a bi-product of failed attempts to crack them for germination!

[Kostas]

Here they are now, 2 months after import:

Pretty much the same huh? Exactly..... Grown a few cms....

They are in a place with mostly shade except 2hours of midday sun. Shall I move them to a location of 5-6hours sun or wait till they finally open those leafs?

[Phoenikakias]

Maybe not the best pot medium for recovery from root damage. This sick palm of mine has produced within last week the rest of the damaged meristem after spearpull and total defoliation and the spear you see. It grows mainly in pumice with addition of some very light soil mix (perlite, peat, coir, compost) and gets watered every day. Its position is in semi shade.

[Kostas]

They did not have root damage in any significant degree, but impenetrable root masses. I did my best to get soil between the roots but root-soil contact may still be limited. Plus, the climate here is dryer and asks for more extensive root systems to cover the water needs of palms.

Great to see the Alagoptera recovering. These have very different needs from Acrocomia and are happy in wet conditions in part day sun to shade. Acrocomia like being in the ground and need sun. The heel and root mass is enormous for the palm's size.

[Kostas]

Should i leave them in mostly shade till they open their leaf or move to 5-6hours sun where they will also be warmer and speed things up? Do you think they will have rooted enough by now to like such a move or get stressed more again?

Weather has not been hot enough yet this year, we have been around 25C all this time and only few days above 30C.

I just moved them to more sun as their soil was staying cool and wet where they were. Hope the extra warmth makes growth kick in. They seem somewhat stable now so i hope they take the transition well

[foxtail]

I am tired from the bared roots palm,big effort in some ones to keep them alive and at the end the fatal finish; but it's the only way for many of us to get some desired and 'uncommon' palms.

Best wishes with yours,

Honesty,

Angel

[Kostas]

Thanks for the sympathy Angel, you know them first hand too! I am also tired of them, It's so not nice to see them linger to life by a thread and wait more than half a year before they start growing anywhere near their normal growth rate again and start recovering. But when they do recover, it's all worth it.

Thank you! Hope they recover and grow to mature specimen that can spread this species further in my country

Happy growing!

-Konstantinos

[Kostas]

Pots are baking in the scorching summer sun with 35C+ and a hot drying wind, and Acrocomia are showing good progress fast after months of just staying the same...

They seem to prefer to be on the hot and dryer side, as inner pot soil stays moist for very long. Leaflets are opening fast now, finally, instead of just being in a semi-opened spear phase as they were. The other one is about to follow in recovery/growth, just want to be left to dry some more