Fertilizing and how you do it.

[gvidal14]

I'd like to ask everyone's opinions and experiences with regards to what fertilizers you feed your palms with. There are so many options out there from organic blood and bone meal to a crazy amount of different synthetic brands out there.

I have been using blood and bone meal for a while with good success but I keep reading a lot about different slow release granular fertilizers.

Does anyone currently use Loveland Super Palm? Does anyone know if this is a slow release brand? Do you recommend fertilizing when transplanting from pot to landscape?

Many people say not to fertilize for a month or two. Others say to fertilize right away with said slow release. Plants in pots get fertilized in the bucket all of the time so other than some shock when transplanting, why not?

Edited February 21, 2015 by gvidal14

[pigafetta]

I always fertilise when i plant palms I mix a bit of fertiliser in with the soil as you back fill, then water with seasol liquid fertiliser that helps with root growth.

Then I fertilise at the end of winter just before a good rain, i use organic lifter similar to blood and bone and throw good handfuls around the base of palms, then every few months during the warm months.

When I lived in the sub tropics i also fertilised with a folia type fertiliser every few weeks.

[NApalm]

I like your style Pigafetta. Im very similar. With the inclusion of worm juice

[Ben in Norcal]

I got a load of composted horse manure dumped on my driveway last weekend, which got spread all around the front yard. Back yard (where the dogs have access) will get a slow release.

[Pip]

I have to agree dogs are anoying when you use organic fertilizer. Blood and bone seems to be the favorite for my dogs. One will dig trenches to get at it.

[gvidal14]

Has anyone tried loveland Super Palm?

[_Keith]

I have tried synthetic and organic, slow release, fast release, and spikes. If you follow the instructions, I have not seen a difference between them at all. I like to use organic when I can. What I do believe in that makes a difference is mulch, mulch, mulch.

[pigafetta]

Yes I agree a regular good mulching is just as important in a backyard garden, especially a mulch that provides nitrogen as it breaks down (like sugar can mulch) rather than a more solid wood type mulch that can actually pull nitrogen from the soil as it breaks down.

Edited February 21, 2015 by pigafetta

[Jim in Los Altos]

My garden's soil always has a deep layer of rotting mulch on the soil surface. It's essential for rain forest palms and beneficial for all others. I also like Dr. Earth Palm Fertilizer. It's 100% organic and smelly but smelly usually means good! My two collie dogs wouldn't think of messing with it, they're so prissy. They panic if a leaf gets stuck to their fur and sniff flowers for gosh sakes.

[gvidal14]

Hahaha. Cute pup.

[Gonzer]

Jim, it'd be nice to have a couple of well-mannered poopers like yours. Unfortunately, Woofie's inclined to make a burrow.

[Darold Petty]

Gonzer, what the heck is that giant Brom ?

[Gonzer]

Darold, that was given to me years ago as Mezobromelia pleiosticha, but

it's never bloomed so I'm not 100% about the ID.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks, Gonzer;
Now back on topic. I use Apex Palm Special time-release fertilizer. I prefer to use organics but my garden is too densely planted for the exclusive use of organics. These include feather meal for nitrogen, greensand for potassium and humic acid. I also apply crab or shrimp meal as a preventative against pathogenic nematodes.

Every autumn, before the rainy season (remember that? ) I apply a two-inch layer of finished compost.

[gvidal14]

Do you know of anyone that sells Apex palm special in San Diego CA?

[Danilopez89]

I hear apex is really good, but can be really strong so be careful. I use palm plus its always available for me around here and its pretty affordable. I started buying it because it had what my queen palms demanded. I tried some organics but they're stinky and attract flies just like dog poop. And then my dogs will dig it up because of the smell.

[Danilopez89]

Also I like to fertilize 3 or 4 times per year but thats because I like to overwater everything and like to flood my palms for hours sometimes.

[gvidal14]

Bump for love land super palm. Any word on this?

[gvidal14]

Also I like to fertilize 3 or 4 times per year but thats because I like to overwater everything and like to flood my palms for hours sometimes.

I also like to flood my palms at least 3 times per week. I also like to fetilize them about 4 times a year. That's mainly why I'm asking the fertilizer question. Haha

[Danilopez89]

I use "BEST"PalmPlus fertilizer. I first started to buy it because it had higher magnesium than others. At some point they changed that and made it lower. Love lands palm fertilizer has higher magnesium than Best palm fertilizers ever did. That's one reason for me to try Love lands palm fertilizer when ever I run across it. Where did you see it Gustavo?

[gvidal14]

I am able to get it through Jim at Solana Select. He used it when I bought a bunch of Kentias from him last year. He swears by Groganic. Ground up blood and bone meal that he sells. Good stuff but it want to try this slow release now as well.

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

I used the groganic from solana select. Super thrive works better for me

[Josh-O]

Gustavo, I use palm plus 13-5-8 time release fertilizer.

You can buy it in 50lb bags at Ewing or hydroscape for around 60.00 per bag

[gvidal14]

I'll check that out Josh. The loveland stuff I got appears to be good stuff. 14-4-9. I'll see how it does before I buy the next batch.

[edric]

It's a 50 mile drive for me one way just to get Dr. Earth's for instance, does anyone have any suggestions, I don't think I should go on using Vigoro now that I have exotic palms in the ground, thanks, Ed

[Ben in Norcal]

I've gone organic in the front yard, as noted above - but was planning on using Vigoro time release in the back. Is there something wrong with Vigoro/should I be looking for something else?

[LJG]

It's a 50 mile drive for me one way just to get Dr. Earth's for instance, does anyone have any suggestions, I don't think I should go on using Vigoro now that I have exotic palms in the ground, thanks, Ed

Ed, Amazon actually sells Dr Earth and has no shipping fees. They have it at a great price too. No clue how they ship a 50 pound bag for free, but I am not complaining. Vigoro is made poorly and don't believe the "slow" release part. I guess "slow" is open to interpretation anyway. Example the Vigoro Palm food is 8-4-8 (poor ratio for most Cali soils) but the actual amount of slow release N is 1.2. So yes, they can use the word "slow", but when compared to more expensive stuff.... Also, I don't think they use any chelates for their micros.

[Jim in Los Altos]

It's a 50 mile drive for me one way just to get Dr. Earth's for instance, does anyone have any suggestions, I don't think I should go on using Vigoro now that I have exotic palms in the ground, thanks, Ed

I get my Dr. Earth online at Amazon. The 50 lb. bags are $20 to $30 cheaper than store bought.

[Loxahatchee Adam]

With S FL soils, it's usually sandy, so to not spend the extra $$$ on all slow release is a waste of money when it rains hard or you irrigate heavily.

With most big box fertilizers (Vigoro and Lesco included) too much of it is water soluble (fast release). This make them less expensive. Some of them also use Potassium chloride (also labeled as Muriate of Potash) for the K as it's less expensive. This is garbage. It has a very high salt index (N isn't the only source of burning) and chlorides/chlorine are detrimental to almost all plants for the levels found in some fertilizer bags. Some types of turf can handle it better than palms and ornamentals though.

I attached a label of a 13-3-13-3 polymer and sulfur coated label from Howard Fertilizer. It may look nice at first, has 4.5 units of slow release N (you'd really want 13 of the 13 slow release, same for K) and some minors. But even with the expensive sulfur and polymer coating, the K is from Muriate of Potash, KCl....Potassium chloride. In some states, specialty fertilizers do not have to state the Chloride %....only on general fertilizer. The label says not more than 5.25% Chlorine. That means that in a 50lb bag, there is approx 2.6 lbs of elemental chlorine! That's crazy.

Household bleach is 5.25% Sodium hypochlorite NaClO. Atomic weights of: Cl (35.5) O (16) Na (23) Elemental chlorine is approx 48% of the weight of Sodium hypochlorite. You'd need approx 12 gals of household bleach to get the same amount of Chlorine as that bag of fertilizer. 12 gals * 8lbs/gal = 96 lbs 96 lbs * (.0525) ~ 5lbs NaClO 48% of 5 lbs ~ 2.6 lbs Chlorine. Of course the bleach has sodium also, which burns and is bad.

You could skip the last 2 paragraphs if you want. Point being, the source of the nutrients matters a lot. Avoid Potassium chloride, KCl, Muriate of Potash.

[edric]

Thanks a buch guys, Amazon it is, Ed

[trioderob]

for Apex palm in san diego this place has by far the best prices

guys- please don't call and hound them on the phone or you will screw me - and they wont give me deals

anymore

this is only because you guys have helped me :

http://www.imperialsprinklersupply.com/locations/sandiego/

Edited February 23, 2015 by trioderob

[_Keith]

So, here in the sometimes frigid, but mostly cool winter south, this is the new protocol I am trying. In the peak of winter, I put down light does of a fast release nitrogen heavy fert every few weeks. I don't want growth to stall and damage to linger in the crown. I want the palms to keep pushing as best as they can and get on with aggressively as the heat kicks back in. In early spring I put down a combo of light dose of quick release and also slow release or spikes, and then organic over the top. I will continue with the organic program every 60 days until fall. We'll just have to see what happens.

[Kim]

I've used all sorts of fertilizer, mostly granular bagged stuff, including high quality slow-release forms, such as Nutricote. Most recently I ordered a couple of boxfulls of the Lutz palm spikes advertised on the pages here. My Dypsis carlsmithii were looking really yellow, but after application of the palm spikes in December, they are looking greener. From my limited experience, I would say they work very well. The only drawback, as I see it, is taking the time to pound the stakes into the ground. It is far more time consuming than sprinkling granular fertilizer. With more than 300 palms to fertilize, it's just not going to happen on a regular basis. I will continue to use the spikes for palms that demand more nutrients to look good, but will revert to slow-release granular for general use.

[Danilopez89]

So, here in the sometimes frigid, but mostly cool winter south, this is the new protocol I am trying. In the peak of winter, I put down light does of a fast release nitrogen heavy fert every few weeks. I don't want growth to stall and damage to linger in the crown. I want the palms to keep pushing as best as they can and get on with aggressively as the heat kicks back in. In early spring I put down a combo of light dose of quick release and also slow release or spikes, and then organic over the top. I will continue with the organic program every 60 days until fall. We'll just have to see what happens.

I like your idea Keith. I will try it next time. I start fert. in early February to wake them up.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I like to use MicroLife 8-4-6 Ultimate all organic fertilizer. It is made by San Jacinto Environmental in Houston and has 70 micronutrients. It is specifically formulated for the Texas Gulf Coast, but would probably be good for all areas along the Gulf Coast. I also use Medina Hasta Gro 12-4-8 Lawn as a foliar spray. It is all natural and ha some of the micros. I have recently started using Super Thrive too. I used to use nothing but artificial chemical fertilizers on everything since I have a degree in Agriculture from Texas A&M University since that is what they brainwashed us with, but since going all organic, I can honestly say I will NEVER go back to the synthetic chemicals! I usually fertilize with the slow release granular twice a year in late Feb. to early Mar. and again in late Sept. to early Oct.

The Medina I use as a foliar spray off and one every few weeks.

I also use 100% organic compost at the time of planting, then I use a good 100% organic mulch and remulch once or twice a year thereafter.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Synthetic fertilizers sterilize the soil over time and kill the beneficial microbes and bacteria that live in healthy soil. The organic fertilizers, especially the higher quality ones, build up the healthy microbes and bacteria in the soil. When you have healthy soil, you have healthy plants. Also, going all organic brings back the good bugs, like lady bugs, and the lizards and other friends of us gardeners to naturally help fight off pests. And an added benefit when you go all organic is that you use less water over time, which is really important for those of us living in drought stricken areas.

[trioderob]

Synthetic fertilizers sterilize the soil over time and kill the beneficial microbes and bacteria that live in healthy soil. The organic fertilizers, especially the higher quality ones, build up the healthy microbes and bacteria in the soil. When you have healthy soil, you have healthy plants. Also, going all organic brings back the good bugs, like lady bugs, and the lizards and other friends of us gardeners to naturally help fight off pests. And an added benefit when you go all organic is that you use less water over time, which is really important for those of us living in drought stricken areas.

synthetic make the palms grow fast

I love synthetic

Edited February 24, 2015 by trioderob

[LJG]

Synthetic fertilizers sterilize the soil over time and kill the beneficial microbes and bacteria that live in healthy soil. The organic fertilizers, especially the higher quality ones, build up the healthy microbes and bacteria in the soil. When you have healthy soil, you have healthy plants. Also, going all organic brings back the good bugs, like lady bugs, and the lizards and other friends of us gardeners to naturally help fight off pests. And an added benefit when you go all organic is that you use less water over time, which is really important for those of us living in drought stricken areas.

Actually this has been proven false. A more correct statement is that using synthetic fertilizers incorrectly can damage soils. Remember that the term "sterilization" means that ALL microbial life would be dead. High quality synthetics used correctly will not destroy healthy soils. What exactly kills the microbes and bacteria with synthetics anyway? There isn't some hidden poison like the green machine leads you to believe. It is the build up of salts from using too much and also not leaching the soils. Using too much organics can also cause issues. For example, blood meal can burn, to much epsom salts bind clay even further limiting oxygen, etc. While I have no doubt organics are a preferable way to go, the simple fact is not all soils support 100% organic options when growing tropicals. I went two years with 100% organic. The results were terrible. Gary Levine can attest to this. My "sterile" DG is a problem and it leaches out nutrients too fast. Much like sand in Florida. I spent a fortune on all kind of different organic options too. My soil is just too new and it will take time to transform it to where it needs to be to go mostly organic like I want.

My biggest beef with synthetics is that most homeowners don't understand that more is not better. They go to Home Depot, buy a 20-20-20 brand and throw it all over the grass and yard then chuck a few more scoops cause they think more really is better. This is one of the biggest reasons our waterways are being devastated from algae blooms. The sad thing is that phosphorus doesn't even have to be used in high amounts for most jobs anyway. Something like 15-5-15 would be better.

[Hammer]

It's a 50 mile drive for me one way just to get Dr. Earth's for instance, does anyone have any suggestions, I don't think I should go on using Vigoro now that I have exotic palms in the ground, thanks, Ed

Ed, Amazon actually sells Dr Earth and has no shipping fees. They have it at a great price too. No clue how they ship a 50 pound bag for free, but I am not complaining. Vigoro is made poorly and don't believe the "slow" release part. I guess "slow" is open to interpretation anyway. Example the Vigoro Palm food is 8-4-8 (poor ratio for most Cali soils) but the actual amount of slow release N is 1.2. So yes, they can use the word "slow", but when compared to more expensive stuff.... Also, I don't think they use any chelates for their micros.

Len, what do you use? Dr. Earth?

I'm curious what your annual regimen for fertilization is. What do you use? When do you apply it? Any supplements you add to the equation at particular times of the year?

Thanks!

[_Keith]

Whether it organic vs synthetic, or anything else on life for that matter absolutes always seem to lead to trouble.