what do certified arborists really know?

[pptn]

I am just curious about the facts of what Certified Arborists are educated about. Are Arborists taught anything about palm trees or just hardwood trees. I have had so many certified arborists and even some college professors come into my palm tree nursery here in Houston and none of them know the first thing about palm trees. I had one ask me what a Date Palm was the other day....Really?

Is this just a Houston thing or is it because palm trees are not included in college or arborist courses?

[doranakandawatta]

Maybe they see palms the same way they'll consider sugar cane or any other grass in Sugar Land .

(Btw I live in cheese land)

You need to meet "palmorists" , Palmtalk is the good place.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Most of the certified arborists I've come in contact with, and I've met MANY, didn't even have much knowledge about lots of trees let alone palms. It's not difficult to get certified, at least here in CA and it shows. My best, most knowledgeable "tree guys" are not even certified arborists. They just have a passion for trees.

[Xerarch]

I'm a certified arborist, actually I let mine lapse so I'm technically not one any more. I was certified in Arizona, as far as tree I.D. went the course mostly focused on local varieties of trees, and touched fairly lightly on palms. Much of the class focused on things like proper pruning techniques, tree biology, pathology, safety when climbing and pruning, stuff like that.

A certified arborist should definitely know how to not overprune a palm, but don't count on them to be experts at palm I.D. by any means unless they have a personal interest. Most of my knowledge about trees comes from my personal interest and enthusiam, even though I was a certified arborist and I have a B.S. In landscape management. I will say though that my education has taught me a number of useful things that I probably wouldn't have discovered on my own and has been an excellent supplement to my self education.

So anyway, not all certified arborists are created equal, I've known some fantastic ones, and I've known some real dopes. I was doing some volunteer work in AZ cleaning up some houses in a community that needed some assistance. I took it upon myself to carefully prune a citrus tree that was encroaching on a driveway, and I did so with hand tools and expertise. Just after I finished, some dude with a chainsaw came and just butchered that poor tree, he lion tailed it if you know what that is. He later said he was a certified arborist, I was deeply embarrassed on behalf of every professional certified arborist on the planet.

[Loxahatchee Adam]

I see companies that advertise certified arborists pencil top cabbage palms and hat-rack trees here all the time (Palm Beach County). Palm Beach County has a Unified Land Development Code that prohibits excessively high palm pruning or hat-racking trees. When a tree has been hat-racked instead of drop-crotched, it's considered useless for canopy (rightly so) and commercial properties will lose tree credits for those trees. (In theory by code) they must be removed and replaced with proper trees. Happens all the time though. Of course most of this is done by one of the thousands of landscaping companies that are around here also which do not have certified arborists. They tend to be the ones that weedwhack cambiums to tree death.

I think the problem is that there are some people who go through the courses just to get the piece of paper certificate, but will continue to do things the way they want to (and honestly, the way the customers want, as many people want their palms pencil-topped and their trees hat-racked). Others use the knowledge they have to do it properly and educate their clients on the reasons why. Of course if a potential client doesn't get his or her way, they'll just call the next listing on Google.

[Xerarch]

Adam, you're right about the customer, sometimes they insist on the poorest of practices, like pencil-tipping. Like you say, a good arborist will try to educate them, I have usually had success doing so, but sometimes they don't care, if you won't do it they will just find someone else to hire (and pay) to do it their way.

[_Keith]

Education

Training

Experience

Backbone

[Gonzer]

I'm certified and truthfully, Bozo the Clown could pass the test with enough preparation. It's the learned and continuing knowledge and hands-on experience that make a difference. A piece of paper does not "make" an arborist. Yes, palms are included in one of the prep chapters. Field experience is the most valuable resource, not just for arborists, but in any horticultural endeavor.

I'd say your guys in Houston were on the lower limbs of the experience tree.

[doranakandawatta]

I'm certified and truthfully, Bozo the Clown could pass the test with enough preparation. It's the learned and continuing knowledge and hands-on experience that make a difference. A piece of paper does not "make" an arborist. Yes, palms are included in one of the prep chapters. Field experience is the most valuable resource, not just for arborists, but in any horticultural endeavor.

I'd say your guys in Houston were on the lower limbs of the experience tree.

You're right,

Field experience is the most valuable resource, not just for arborists, but in any horticultural endeavor, and for landscape designers too, if we don't want to design instant but short live gardens. Palms are very special plants, changing so much from juvenile stage to mature one.

The show of the growth can be the scenario

[Hammer]

(Btw I live in cheeseland.)

I didn't know you are from Wisconsin!

[Palmdude]

Master gardeners don't seem to know too much either

[Hammer]

I've been living in California for almost 14 years now. The concept of hatracking, lion tailing or topping trees was foreign to me until I moved here.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the thought process involved in making a big, gorgeous and majestic tree look so hacked up and disgusting.

Just this week the city removed 35 year old pine trees that lined a nearby residential street. They provided beautiful shade and canopy. I just don't understand the mindset that says we don't want beautiful mature trees so cut 'em back or cut 'em down!!!

This lunacy wasn't the way I remember things being in the Midwest where trees are actually allowed to reach their full grandeur. Trees are NOT rose bushes!

[doranakandawatta]

(Btw I live in cheeseland.)

I didn't know you are from Wisconsin!

????

I was talking about Gruyères, the best cheese in the world!

Do you have cheese in Wisconsin?

Sorry, very smelly off-topic

[Hammer]

(Btw I live in cheeseland.)

I didn't know you are from Wisconsin!

????

I was talking about Gruyères, the best cheese in the world!

Do you have cheese in Wisconsin?

Sorry, very smelly off-topic

Here in the states Wisconsin is known for cheese production and the Green Bay Packers a professional American football team. The Packers' fans are sometimes called cheeseheads.

[Gonzer]

I've been living in California for almost 14 years now. The concept of hatracking, lion tailing or topping trees was foreign to me until I moved here.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the thought process involved in making a big, gorgeous and majestic tree look so hacked up and disgusting.

Just this week the city removed 35 year old pine trees that lined a nearby residential street. They provided beautiful shade and canopy. I just don't understand the mindset that says we don't want beautiful mature trees so cut 'em back or cut 'em down!!!

This lunacy wasn't the way I remember things being in the Midwest where trees are actually allowed to reach their full grandeur. Trees are NOT rose bushes!

Well put MC. Another method of (to me) butchery is pollarding.

Palmdude nailed it too.

[pptn]

I asked another one yesterday if it is covered in the courses and he replied he maybe saw 2 paragraphs about palms. That's crazy to me. I have had people turn me away from jobs because they only wanted a certified arborists working on their palms.

Loxahatchee Adam , what is hat racking? that phrase is new to me. is that a cut performed on a regular hardwood tree or palm because I have never heard of that in the palm industry. Sounds like what we call "topping" of hardwood trees here. Same thing?

[Gonzer]

The ISA study guide has a complete chapter on palm maintenance, planting, removal, and other issues, not a couple of paragraphs.

[Loxahatchee Adam]

Hat racking is essentially taking a chainsaw and just cutting of branches and limbs as you please to create a desired shape (usually a smaller ball shape)..with no regard for the structure of a tree. You typically end up with lots of stub branches that then sprout numerous new, weakly-attached branches.

Instead, generally, the branches should be cut back to a collar so that it can properly heal and force energy, growth, and strength into a different branch.

[Mandrew968]

Most of the certified arborists I've come in contact with, and I've met MANY, didn't even have much knowledge about lots of trees let alone palms. It's not difficult to get certified, at least here in CA and it shows. My best, most knowledgeable "tree guys" are not even certified arborists. They just have a passion for trees.

Once again, Jim is on the money-palms require minimal trimming/training so they are not covered in their certification process.