Show me your biggest root ball

[Josh-O]

OK, here's the biggest root ball we ever handled here at the homestead. Its a Phoenix reclinata that we rescued from a construction site. It was free, the move wasn't. But it is a great plant relocation story. So, bear with me as I indulge in telling it with a sense of humor. The story is even better if you have a margarita in hand. So, please, take a minute to get one...then read on.

This tree was planted around 1955 up next to a home in Winter Haven FL. The home was recently purchased by a couple that wanted to rehabilitate and expand the living space. Unfortunately, the tree blocked access to the double car garage, so it had to be removed if the garage was ever to hold a car again. So the owners, recognizing the tree as "not your average Pygmy Date", put the tree on Craigs List for "free". Several folks jumped at the offer, said "I'll come back and get it", then disappeared never to be heard from again.

So, I posed for scale, and David, snapped a pix and sent it to a "landscaper" in Jacksonville that was going to move a few trees from our place in Jacksonville to Winter Haven. The landscaper told David he would move the trees from Jacksonville to Winter Haven, as well as dig this reclinata and its twin then move them to the new house 3 miles away for $1000. I can't post the exact language I used when he shot the price back, but lets just say, I knew instantly he had no idea what he was getting into. I'm a professional horticulturist with a bad plant addiction. I've moved a few trees and I had a pretty good idea what this was going to take. So,the planning was complete...now the execution.

On "the day", our new landscaper friend started by digging out 3 small plants at the place in Jacksonville. I knew we were in trouble when it took 4 people 4 hours to dig 2 plants. Turned out they couldn't get one...it was too hard to move! So, it was 3:00pm when they finally showed up in Winter Haven ready to start the hard work. His "crew" looked to be escapees from the county jail, and, as it turned out, only one was fit to work. As luck would have it a serious lightning storm arrived about the same time and it was too dangerous to work much in our garden/field as lightning was striking all around. At the time, I figured it was an omen, and it WAS! I took them into town and told them I'd plant the other trees myself when the lightning stopped. So about 3 pm the whiz bang "landscapers" began "digging" the tree. By midnight, the poor thing had been jerked from the soil and laid helplessly in the hole since it weighed too much to lift with the equipment on hand. The Bobcat was screaming at the abuse, and I was just shaking my head in the rain. After her stern warning of lightning, mother nature must have decided to give us a hand and provided soft rain throughout the whole ordeal...something I'm sure helped the poor tree. Slowly, we did our best to tie the trunks together then fought the tremendous weight to get it onto the transport trailer. As floor boards snapped and popped under the weight, it became obvious we were over the trailer's weight limit, a trailer that carried the bobcat without even a murmur. Then the fun really began.

As it turned out, the trunks were far stronger than any ropes or come-along devices we had on site so the tree really didn't fit on the trailer at all. In fact, it was wide enough to cross two 12' lanes of roadway. As our "landscaper" dragged the poor tree along the street, we bushwhacked roadsigns - on both sides of the road. Luckily it was 2:00 am so no one was actually driving...well except that one guy that had to drive in the grass to keep from being whacked. By the time we had traveled the 3 miles to the new planting site, the humans were zombies having nearly been defeated by a 60 year old palm tree. The pix below shows what we awoke to: dead bobcat abandoned by the landscaper, and a 4 ton tree on its side.

050.jpg

Well, with no landscaper and a dead bobcat in the yard, we went to work buying heavy duty rope and trying to right the poor palm using 3 pickup trucks. The angle was all wrong and we couldn't even move the tree. After mulling all of this over for several days, tree on its side, dead bobcat standing sentinel over the scene, we began to wonder if we had just created the saddest firewood story of our lives. But as luck would have it, the man that owns the company that mows our property ran into a crane operator...completely by chance. Here's the piece of equipment he had....

IMG_2553.jpg

Capable of lifting 40 tons! Just the ticket!

So, for $300, he came and lifted our sad P. reclinata straight up into the air and placed it gently into the planting hole. The root ball was at least 6' across and 6' deep. But that 40 ton crane lifted it like I lift a 3 gallon plant! So, we hastily filled in the hole and started the water. this is what it looked like that afternoon...Bobcat still patiently watching over the tree.

127.JPG

I hoped to end the story with a current pix, but we're in the midst of a rainstorm so I'm going to save that pix for another day. But this tree has thrived. I had no idea a palm could be so resilient. Somehow, despite being in drought during the dry season, we had rain the whole week it laid on its side. By pure chance, its planted on the "wet" side of the property. It had been so dry since our July 2012 move-in-date, we didn't even know we had a "wet" side. And for those of you with P reclinata, you know they like water.

Oh, the Bobcat finally went back home to Jacksonville, apparently satisfied that it's new friend, P. reclinata was going to be fine. Somehow they seemed to develop a bond, probably during that epic battle of tug-of-war.

Great story Keith, I enjoyed reading it and had a chuckle or two

[Josh-O]

Jim, that's a perfect solitary specimen Chamaerops. your customer must be happy. It's rare to see them single trunked and that tall.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

image1.JPG

This are my biggest of the windmills and the only pics I have on my phone of root balls. I hand dug all these in 1 day. The Butia and Sabal root balls are closer to your size but we really don't need much more than 3 ft depth here. The clay in my fields around 2ft deep holds everything together nicely. I move mine around with a backhoe and tractor with a front end loader.

Nice trailer load of windmills. They are rare as hens teeth down here because of our nematodes. They were fun to grow in zone 7 where few palms survived

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Dooms Dave inspired me to start a thread about posting your biggest root ball or your palm trans plant. Here are a few pictures I took today of a massive jubaeopsis caffra I'm having dug and craned to my Vista garden project. I'll post pic's when She's planted in her new hole.

image1.jpeg it took 4 guys total to did this monster out

image2.jpeg I'm guessing the root ball weighs almost 1 ton

image3.jpeg

image5.jpeg this bad boy will be craned in the next couple of days. The root ball is solid and 5' W X 4' D

If you have any palms that you have dug or transplanted post your picture and tell us how it did?

That is a beautiful specimen. I don't know if I've ever seen one! Apparently the one in the Kopsick palm collection in Tampa has died but it grew there for a long time. I'm assuming if it were well adapted that it'd be more common amongst palm collectors here.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here's a couple pix of that big balled p reclinata!

In this image you can see flowers of our native gelsemium. I think is species sempervirens, but it has really big flowers and a very short flowering period.

[WestCoastGal]

Keith, man that was a transplant nightmare but SO worth it. Beautiful view and they sure did come through the tortureous move well. Looks like a little tropical isle in your yard.

[kylecawazafla]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36838058@N03/4284547176/

[Josh-O]

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Keith, man that was a transplant nightmare but SO worth it. Beautiful view and they sure did come through the tortureous move well. Looks like a little tropical isle in your yard.

Thanks, having a blank canvas, we obviously favored palms. Will get better pix this summer. Winter was mild this year and things look pretty good, considering the time they've had to get established.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36838058@N03/4284547176/

Kyle, is that a Washie? Poor thing needs a rescue! I can bring a Toyota Tundra...they can pull the space shuttle! I saw it in tv!

[WestCoastGal]

These photos are of our tallest mule (of 2) that were transplanted when we first started our backyard landscaping and served as the foundation for the layout. The guys brought the mules in on a flatbed and unloaded them to the back yard using a Catapiller TL943 telescoping forklift to crane them to their new home. They made it look easy.

[Josh-O]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36838058@N03/4284547176/

Kyle, is that a Washie? Poor thing needs a rescue! I can bring a Toyota Tundra...they can pull the space shuttle! I saw it in tv!

[Josh-O]

wow Debbie, Those puppies are sure stout and very healthy looking. Not to mention the root balls are in perfect squares.

How old are they and why did you trans plant them? Did you buy a new house?

[Jim in Los Altos]

wow Debbie, Those puppies are sure stout and very healthy looking. Not to mention the root balls are in perfect squares.

How old are they and why did you trans plant them? Did you buy a new house?

wow Debbie, Those puppies are sure stout and very healthy looking. Not to mention the root balls are in perfect squares.

How old are they and why did you trans plant them? Did you buy a new house?

wow Debbie, Those puppies are sure stout and very healthy looking. Not to mention the root balls are in perfect squares.

How old are they and why did you trans plant them? Did you buy a new house?

Debbie got those monster mules at All Tropical Palms nursery in Gilroy, CA several years ago. Debbie, you should post some current pictures of them!

[WestCoastGal]

No current photos so will have to take one. I posted this one last year (one of my favorites views) of that same above pictured mule...with pretty much all landscaping done. From what I understand of their history they were always boxed until they were put in our yard, thus the nice cubed rootball. Kind of drop in place delivery once the boxes were removed. Mike and Sal did a great job getting these guys in for us. All I can say is the holes were large and deep and I was concerned someone's cat or dog was going to wander in it before the palms arrived. A watering tube (visible in one of the photos) at time of digging was added for each mule to help establish the roots since our ground was so hard and dry. Only get rain a few months out of the year. We hand watered the rings for a few years until our irrigation went in. Very happy transplant campers, flowering since they went in.

House was new construction but with absolutely no backyard landscaping and really hard, compacted soil. Most of our palms have required jackhammering the holes. The two mature mules went in in 2010 and the dining pergola (which they flank on each side) and everything else was added later. The second mule (not pictured) is a few feet shorter, was in a slightly smaller box, and has a broader canopy. There are other photos of both of them taken during the hardscape construction somewhere here on PT.

Funny story about these mules. Neighbor behind us noticed the instant palmy view immediately upon coming home. Her hubby was outside BBQing that night in their backyard and she waited to see if he said anything about them. So when he didn't she asked him how he liked the new trees and he said what trees? Guess they looked like they had always been there over the fence. She said she loved looking out of their bedroom window and seeing the fronds now and felt like she was on vacation in the tropics.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

No current photos so will have to take one. I posted this one last year (one of my favorites views) of that same above pictured mule...with pretty much all landscaping done. From what I understand of their history they were always boxed until they were put in our yard, thus the nice cubed rootball. Kind of drop in place delivery once the boxes were removed. Mike and Sal did a great job getting these guys in for us. All I can say is the holes were large and deep and I was concerned someone's cat or dog was going to wander in it before the palms arrived. A watering tube (visible in one of the photos) at time of digging was added for each mule to help establish the roots since our ground was so hard and dry. Only get rain a few months out of the year. We hand watered the rings for a few years until our irrigation went in. Very happy transplant campers, flowering since they went in.

TallMule6.jpg

House was new construction but with absolutely no backyard landscaping and really hard, compacted soil. Most of our palms have required jackhammering the holes. The two mature mules went in in 2010 and the dining pergola (which they flank on each side) and everything else was added later. The second mule (not pictured) is a few feet shorter, was in a slightly smaller box, and has a broader canopy. There are other photos of both of them taken during the hardscape construction somewhere here on PT.

Funny story about these mules. Neighbor behind us noticed the instant palmy view immediately upon coming home. Her hubby was outside BBQing that night in their backyard and she waited to see if he said anything about them. So when he didn't she asked him how he liked the new trees and he said what trees? Guess they looked like they had always been there over the fence. She said she loved looking out of their bedroom window and seeing the fronds now and felt like she was on vacation in the tropics.

Gorgeous landscape and the mules are perfect to give that tropical feel. Your neighbors are lucky!

[WestCoastGal]

Thanks Keith; it's hard to take a bad photo of the palm kids. That tallest mule pictured there had a run in with a vole a few years ago. Another story, another day; but it's still standing and putting out flowers and fronds, much I'm sure due to the vast and deep root system you can see in the photo. With the strong winds we get here, that deep rootball anchors it to the ground well.

Josh-O, DH says the holes for our mules were 5 feet wide and deep so very similar to yours J caffra. What kind of soil do you have where you're at? The color reminds me of that around Uluru in Australia. I'd say manuevering your palm is probably more tricky than our mule due to the broad low canopy. Does it have spines? Looking forward to your pics of the move. Do you need to do anything special for the new home?

[Darold Petty]

This is old news, haven't spoken with Gary for a long while.

http://www.goldengatepalms.com/public_html/juby.htm#top

[Josh-O]

Darold, Great post!! That Jube is a monster in all the senses. The last time I saw one that big is when I was in Chile where they are native

[Josh-O]

Thanks Keith; it's hard to take a bad photo of the palm kids. That tallest mule pictured there had a run in with a vole a few years ago. Another story, another day; but it's still standing and putting out flowers and fronds, much I'm sure due to the vast and deep root system you can see in the photo. With the strong winds we get here, that deep rootball anchors it to the ground well.

Josh-O, DH says the holes for our mules were 5 feet wide and deep so very similar to yours J caffra. What kind of soil do you have where you're at? The color reminds me of that around Uluru in Australia. I'd say manuevering your palm is probably more tricky than our mule due to the broad low canopy. Does it have spines? Looking forward to your pics of the move. Do you need to do anything special for the new home?

The soil where it now resides is awesome in every way. The top two feet of the soil is a layer of clay silt mixed with D.G. After that the it all so D.G. The drainage is amazing to say the least.

It was a nightmare digging and craning this palm out. It took 6 people 5 hours to get it put in.

Jubaeopsis Caffers don't have any spines and the petioles will eventually turn orange most of the time. Mine was grown in filtered sun before the dig. Thats why the branches are yellow.

[Josh-O]

I'll post some pictures of the dig as soon as I can

[WestCoastGal]

Josh and Jim here's a photo of the smaller mule taken today. The sun's in the wrong position to get a good photo of the taller mule but it looks pretty much the same as above anyway. Including a photo of the small mule's rootball as well (8/2010)

[Ben in Norcal]

Awesome looking Mules. I got mine from the same place so fingers crossed!

[Jim in Los Altos]

This Mule came from the same Gilroy nursery a few years ago and we provided it to a client here in Los Altos that wanted something a little different.

[virtualpalm]

Here's one for ya. This is a solid rock rootball weighing in at around 5 tons, which is on the upper end for a palm.

That's super impressive!!! How long did it take to dig out? days, weeks, years, decades...What species is this palm?

It took a day for the crew to dig with jackhammers. It is a Copernicia fallaensis.

[Ken Johnson]

I try to stay away from plant discussions about the "biggest" or "rarest" and all that but it is true that some work with palms includes some very heavy lifting. on the landscaping level many men and lots of equipment is the norm. In your own garden with limited tools and labor small balls are the way to go! If you read Dave's thread on small balls you will get some examples of what can be done.

When root pruning (cutting and waiting for new roots to be produced BEFORE the move) smaller balls are attainable. In cases where no time is available then the big balls come into play. Generally the bigger the palm the bigger the ball in a quick move so Copernicia and Jubea for example often weigh a lot or even too much. Many huge balls have fallen to pieces because they weigh too much.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

image1.JPG

This are my biggest of the windmills and the only pics I have on my phone of root balls. I hand dug all these in 1 day. The Butia and Sabal root balls are closer to your size but we really don't need much more than 3 ft depth here. The clay in my fields around 2ft deep holds everything together nicely. I move mine around with a backhoe and tractor with a front end loader.

Nice trailer load of windmills. They are rare as hens teeth down here because of our nematodes. They were fun to grow in zone 7 where few palms survived

Thank you! I grow them on the side of a floodplain in a sandy-clay soil and they take off in it without the normal nematode problems.

[virtualpalm]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

[Josh-O]

This Mule came from the same Gilroy nursery a few years ago and we provided it to a client here in Los Altos that wanted something a little different.

photo-300.JPG

Nice looking specimen

[Josh-O]

Here's one for ya. This is a solid rock rootball weighing in at around 5 tons, which is on the upper end for a palm.

That's super impressive!!! How long did it take to dig out? days, weeks, years, decades...What species is this palm?

It took a day for the crew to dig with jackhammers. It is a Copernicia fallaensis.

That palm is awesome..Some scored!

[Josh-O]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

wowzeers!! killer looking tree

[Josh-O]

I try to stay away from plant discussions about the "biggest" or "rarest" and all that but it is true that some work with palms includes some very heavy lifting. on the landscaping level many men and lots of equipment is the norm. In your own garden with limited tools and labor small balls are the way to go! If you read Dave's thread on small balls you will get some examples of what can be done.

When root pruning (cutting and waiting for new roots to be produced BEFORE the move) smaller balls are attainable. In cases where no time is available then the big balls come into play. Generally the bigger the palm the bigger the ball in a quick move so Copernicia and Jubea for example often weigh a lot or even too much. Many huge balls have fallen to pieces because they weigh too much.

That's really good advice Ken

[LJG]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

I am amazed someone bought that palm. It is beautiful but the fact it is monocarpic and already about the size they can start to flower is taking a huge risk!

[WestCoastGal]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

I am amazed someone bought that palm. It is beautiful but the fact it is monocarpic and already about the size they can start to flower is taking a huge risk!

I'd guess the new owner is a collector, knew what he was buying and hoping to enjoy it until it flowers and then collect the seeds. Is it a Corypha taliera? I read they're near extinct. I'm glad to see it saved rather than chopped down. Cool looking palm.

[LJG]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

I am amazed someone bought that palm. It is beautiful but the fact it is monocarpic and already about the size they can start to flower is taking a huge risk!

I'd guess the new owner is a collector, knew what he was buying and hoping to enjoy it until it flowers and then collect the seeds. Is it a Corypha taliera? I read they're near extinct. I'm glad to see it saved rather than chopped down. Cool looking palm.

Yeah, I think that goes with out saying that s/he might be a collector and knew what s/he was buying. Doubt they care about the seed since it is so cheap online. Curious, do you know this for a fact that this palm was to be chopped down? Also, what do you see in this palm that tells you it is a Corypha taliera? Because I saw one at Nong Nooch and couldn't tell the difference between it and Corypha umbraculifera.

[virtualpalm]

I don't know of any C. taliera in Florida. This one is C. umbraculifera. It would not have been cut down if it wasn't sold to this individual -- who, by the way, bought it as a status symbol more than anything. He also bought a second one about this size for the same property, in addition to several large Attalea specimens and a couple dozen Satakentia.

[WestCoastGal]

Isn't there C. taliera at Fairchild?

[WestCoastGal]

I don't have photos of the rootball of this palm when we transplanted it, but it measured 8' in diameter and was 3' deep. This particular palm was root pruned for almost a year. For hapaxanthic species, it is always best to err on a larger size rootball and a longer root prune to keep them from flowering too soon. We used a 60-ton crane to pull/load and install this one.

I am amazed someone bought that palm. It is beautiful but the fact it is monocarpic and already about the size they can start to flower is taking a huge risk!

I'd guess the new owner is a collector, knew what he was buying and hoping to enjoy it until it flowers and then collect the seeds. Is it a Corypha taliera? I read they're near extinct. I'm glad to see it saved rather than chopped down. Cool looking palm.

Yeah, I think that goes with out saying that s/he might be a collector and knew what s/he was buying. Doubt they care about the seed since it is so cheap online. Curious, do you know this for a fact that this palm was to be chopped down? Also, what do you see in this palm that tells you it is a Corypha taliera? Because I saw one at Nong Nooch and couldn't tell the difference between it and Corypha umbraculifera.

Trying to figure out how to frame my answer here. Not necessarily, just my guess on the collector aspect. VirtualPalm didn't comment on who had it moved and I thought maybe he might share after reading my comment. Silicon Valley has some stunning landscaped homes/estates and I really doubt most of those home owners are palm collectors, just wanted something attractive and/or unique as suggested by their landscape designers or architects. The former (collector) I would surmise would be more attentive to their palms health and possibly collect seeds.

As for chopping down the palm, no, it was just my feeling that many mature palms are worth the effort to transplant if possible rather than be chopped down so expressed that feeling.

VirtualPalm didn't identify the palm so I asked if it was Corypha taliera. In any event I still think it's a cool palm.

[Josh-O]

I would of personally passed on that dig up myself. Yes very cool palm and I have a nice 2 gal that took some light frost and it is still moving along (slowly might I add)

[Josh-O]

does anyone have C. umbraculifera growing in California?

if so post some pictures please