Mediterranean List of Palms

[CYPALMS]

it's been some time now i am thinking about which species would be suitable to grow in the actual mediterranean climate and so i thought to start with a list and let other members add or remove according to their own experiences.

For the purpose of this topic i would consider a mediterranean climate to have the following characteristics

• Winters with max lows of -2C/26F (very rare events)
• Summers with max highs 45C/113F
• Humidity on average around 75% with the exception of daytime hot dry winds in the summer
• Moderate winds
• Number of sunny days around 220 per year

Now, i know that there are parts of the mediterranean which may vary somehow but i think that these characteristics should cover almost all areas.

In this list we can include of course all the common palms we see around everyday like Phoenix (canariensis, dactylifera, roebellini, theofrastii etc), Washingtonia, Syagrus, Archontophoenix (alexandrae and cunninghiama), Butia (capitata, eriospatha, odorata etc) Dypsis decaryi, Bismarckia nobilis, Howea forsteriana, Wodyetia bifurcata, Chamaerops, Trachycarpus fortunei, couple Livinstona species...

However, this is not the main aim of this topic. The aim is to put down a list of other than the aforementioned palms in order to make the possibilities of our climate visible and help also others to exploit it.

So here is a first list i have come up with so far:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Basselinia pancheri
4. Beccariophoenix alfredii
5. Bentinckia condapanna
6. Brahea armata/edulis
7. Burretiokentia vieillardii
8. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
9. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
10. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
11. Dypsis albofarinosa
12. Dypsis baronii
13. Dypsis decipiens
14. Dypsis lanceolata
15. Dypsis leptocheilos
16. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
17. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
18. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
19. Lanonia dasyantha
20. Latania loddigesii
21. Licuala peltata var. peltata
22. Licuala ramsayi
23. Pinanga caesia
24. Roystonea oleracea/regia
25. Satakentia liukiuensis

The above list of course is not exhaustive but i think it contains some nice palms to be grown in the mediterranean.

Feel free to make corrections, additions and any comments that would help make it better.

George

[Phoenikakias]

Practically you are referring to USDA zones 9( and 10. As far as zone 9B is concerned a big portion of above list is merely a summer night's dream! Latania, Licuala, Areca and Satakentia in zone 9B?!?!? No sir!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Practically you are referring to USDA zones 9( and 10. As far as zone 9B is concerned a big portion of above list is merely a summer night's dream! Latania, Licuala, Areca and Satakentia in zone 9B?!?!? No sir!

I agree for the most part but Licuala peltata and ramsayi are easy growers in a Mediterranean 9b. I've had mine for many years outside in the ground. Clinostigma ponapence is a real stretch though. Clinostigma savorianum works well though. Roystonea oleracea may not be log lived but R. regia and R. borinquena are doable certainly. Any Areca would be difficult too.

There's lots more Dypsis that work, like carlsmithii, saintlucia, piluifera, onilahensis, etc. Foxy Lady would be fine, all the Brahea, many of the Trachycarpus, and most Livistona.

[Pip]

Regions of the world that enjoy a true Mediterranean climate outside of the Mediterranean basin include California, Chile, a small area of South Africa, west coast of north island New Zealand, the south western corner of Western Australia and coastal South Australia.

[pigafetta]

Here in Melbourne Australia Victoria we often get lumped in as Mediterrrean climate but id rather call it temperate and there is a lot on that list we can't grow even where i live which is coastal frost free, I guess due to our long overcast winters and lack of winter warmth.

Foxtails are extremely marginal for us and only just survive in the right spot and look crap, same for Roystonea oleracea/regia.

These won't survive for us due to lack of warmth Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum, Dypsis lanceolata, Dypsis leptocheilos, Hyophorbe lagenicaullis,Latania loddigesii.

Not sure on these, but don't expect they would survive long term Bentinckia condapanna, Euterpe edulis/oleracea, Satakentia liukiuensis

Burretiokentia vieillardii has been tried by guys but does not survive but B. hapala grows okay although offcourse slow.

Bizzys and triangles grow but need to be in total full sun and never look as good as in warmer climates.

[CYPALMS]

Thanx for the input so far Phoenikakias, Jim, Pip, pigafetta! Your replies are valuable

By taking into account your comments and experiences i would adjust the list as following:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Basselinia pancheri
4. Beccariophoenix alfredii
5. Bentinckia condapanna
6. Brahea armata/edulis/decumbens
7. Burretiokentia vieillardii/hapala
8. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
9. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
10. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
11. Dypsis albofarinosa
12. Dypsis baronii
13. Dypsis decipiens
14. Dypsis lanceolata
15. Dypsis leptocheilos
16. Dypsis carlsmithii
17. Dypsis saintelucei
18. Dypsis onilahensis
19. Dypsis pilulifera
20. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
21. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
22. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
23. Lanonia dasyantha
24. Latania loddigesii
25. Licuala peltata var. peltata
26. Licuala ramsayi
27. Pinanga caesia
28. Roystonea oleracea/regia/borinquena
29. Satakentia liukiuensis

I have not removed Roystonea and Hyophorbe because we already have them planted here in Cyprus for many years and they dont seem to be bothered at all with our climate. Cyprus is a small island in the eastern mediterranean, of which the most part is coastal, except of course for the central mountainous terrain, for which the above list would not apply.

Imo the real value of such topics lies in the accumulated experience of fellow members. For example, i realise that mediterranean climate corresonds to 9b/10 zones, but if we stick solely to this feature of the climate then we will probably be missing out on some wonderful species and never plant them after all.

Any other corrections or additions to the list would be much appreciated.

George

[Rafael]

I would add dypsis ambositrae.

I would not exclude betinckia condapanna.

[Stelios]

Some additionals can be Caryota gigas, Raphis excelsa, Arenga engleri, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, and Ravenea rivularis and Glauca. Parajubaea and Mules could grow too. If you are in zone 9B I agree that some of the palms on the list would not grow. It also depends on how exposed they are to the elements and the type of soil. I think is better to grow the ones which will look beautiful all year round without a lot of care than to try to grow the ones which will look ugly and won't survive too long. But if you are in coastal 10B zone in Cyprus with a good micro-climate I think you could try some more tropical marginal palms. I also think that with Satakentia or Roystonea oleracea things are not promising, but I would try just for the experience if I could find them here. For the overall better look of my garden I'm trying to grow the ones which are more good looking and easy around here like Archontophoenix, Roystonea regia, Spindles and Foxtails, but I will try to grow some more marginals with protection for the experiment. Maybe some of them will grow nice here. It will be interesting to see some more varieties.

Stelios

[Pedro 65]

Thanx for the input so far Phoenikakias, Jim, Pip, pigafetta! Your replies are valuable

By taking into account your comments and experiences i would adjust the list as following:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Basselinia pancheri
4. Beccariophoenix alfredii
5. Bentinckia condapanna
6. Brahea armata/edulis/decumbens
7. Burretiokentia vieillardii/hapala
8. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
9. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
10. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
11. Dypsis albofarinosa
12. Dypsis baronii
13. Dypsis decipiens
14. Dypsis lanceolata
15. Dypsis leptocheilos
16. Dypsis carlsmithii
17. Dypsis saintelucei
18. Dypsis onilahensis
19. Dypsis pilulifera
20. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
21. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
22. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
23. Lanonia dasyantha
24. Latania loddigesii
25. Licuala peltata var. peltata
26. Licuala ramsayi
27. Pinanga caesia
28. Roystonea oleracea/regia/borinquena
29. Satakentia liukiuensis

I have not removed Roystonea and Hyophorbe because we already have them planted here in Cyprus for many years and they dont seem to be bothered at all with our climate. Cyprus is a small island in the eastern mediterranean, of which the most part is coastal, except of course for the central mountainous terrain, for which the above list would not apply.

Imo the real value of such topics lies in the accumulated experience of fellow members. For example, i realise that mediterranean climate corresonds to 9b/10 zones, but if we stick solely to this feature of the climate then we will probably be missing out on some wonderful species and never plant them after all.

Any other corrections or additions to the list would be much appreciated.

George

Remove Euterpe olerace ( stricly Tropic)

Add Arenga pinnata

Remove Pinanga caesia add Pinanga adangensis

Cant see Roystonea oleracea var venezuelana a problem

Add Licuala fordiana and spinosa

Add Beccariophoenix madagascariensis

If you have plenty of water and good soil, Tahina is definately worth a try

Pete

[pigafetta]

Should also be able to grow these:

-Acoelorraphe wrightti

-Hedyscepe canterburyana

-Howea belmoeana

-Jubaea chilensis

-Laccospandix australasica

-Linospadix monostachya

-Lytocaryum weddellinum

-Rhapidophyllum hystrix

-Rhopalostlis sp

-Sabal sp

-other Trachycarpus sp

[Phoenikakias]

Thanx for the input so far Phoenikakias, Jim, Pip, pigafetta! Your replies are valuable

By taking into account your comments and experiences i would adjust the list as following:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Basselinia pancheri
4. Beccariophoenix alfredii
5. Bentinckia condapanna
6. Brahea armata/edulis/decumbens
7. Burretiokentia vieillardii/hapala
8. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
9. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
10. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
11. Dypsis albofarinosa
12. Dypsis baronii
13. Dypsis decipiens
14. Dypsis lanceolata
15. Dypsis leptocheilos
16. Dypsis carlsmithii
17. Dypsis saintelucei
18. Dypsis onilahensis
19. Dypsis pilulifera
20. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
21. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
22. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
23. Lanonia dasyantha
24. Latania loddigesii
25. Licuala peltata var. peltata
26. Licuala ramsayi
27. Pinanga caesia
28. Roystonea oleracea/regia/borinquena
29. Satakentia liukiuensis

I have not removed Roystonea and Hyophorbe because we already have them planted here in Cyprus for many years and they dont seem to be bothered at all with our climate. Cyprus is a small island in the eastern mediterranean, of which the most part is coastal, except of course for the central mountainous terrain, for which the above list would not apply.

Imo the real value of such topics lies in the accumulated experience of fellow members. For example, i realise that mediterranean climate corresonds to 9b/10 zones, but if we stick solely to this feature of the climate then we will probably be missing out on some wonderful species and never plant them after all.

Any other corrections or additions to the list would be much appreciated.

George

Should also be able to grow these:

-Acoelorraphe wrightti

-Hedyscepe canterburyana

-Howea belmoeana

-Jubaea chilensis

-Laccospandix australasica

-Linospadix monostachya

-Lytocaryum weddellinum

-Rhapidophyllum hystrix

-Rhopalostlis sp

-Sabal sp

-other Trachycarpus sp

Pigafetta's list is more realistic in that those palms will very probably thrive in MOST of the Mediterranean regions. You Cypriots seem to overlook that coastal Cyprus lies to the (warmer) margins of what we call mediterranean, unles you do not consider coastal southern and central Greece, the Greek islands, coastal France and southern coastal part of Spain and whole coastal Italy and generally coastal Adria enough mediterranean! Instead it may suffice to repeat a report from Rhodos (FM Mauricelove) that a try there with Hyophorbe met with failure... I propose that we turn this topic to poll with the question how many of those purportedly suitable palms have already been tested in a coastal mediterranean region and failed miserably.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[SouthSeaNate]

Perhaps it would be better to put what zone each palm can survive in next to them on the list, as has already been said different parts of the Mediterranean have different zones & what may be hardy in Cyprus or Malta may not be hardy in southern France for example...

[CYPALMS]

Apologies first for leaving this for a couple of days, but some things will always be happening apart from palms, that will require our full time

Rafael thank you for your input, it also gave me the chance to check the 2 links in your signature with your beautiful gardens, one of which is a 9b zone, and the other one a 10A which are more or less the 2 corresponding zones for the mediterranean climate, apart of course of any special local climate characteristics. I am adding Dypsis ambositrae and will definately try out some condapanna just for the sake of trying.

Stelios thank you also for your input, all the way from pafos. Are you situated in the golden area of Pafos airport? Caryota gigas i am adding. I am not going to put on this list the Raphis excelsa, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, and Ravenea rivularis and Glauca as they can be found in nurseries and i am trying to build a list of uncommon palms to be tried out in our climate.

Pete thank you too for your input. Arenga pinnata will look nice when older with the long erect leaves and is a nice addition. Added Licuala fordiana and spinosa which have other supporters too and they are generally described as bulletproof in such climates.

Pigafeta, impressive list there. Laccospadix australasica will be an eye catcher i suppose. And Hedyscepe canterburyana is an awesome palm, albeit slow? Thank you very much for your input.

Phoenikakias, of course not all regions of the mediterranean have the same climate, but what if we can build a general mediterranean list here with the valuable input of fellow members and then let each person search further for region specific characteristics and narrow down this list according to his locale? Us Cypriots (well me actually) are only sick and tired of all those suagrus romanzoffiana and phoenix roboellenei and washingtonias planted in just about every corner and would really like to see some other beautifull palms around. The intended value of such a post is to create a short list for general mediterranean climate and allow interested members to limit their efforts in searching amongst 50-70 species and not trying to pick a palm from 2500.

Again thank you all for taking the time to leave a comment. Any other suggestions will be highly appreciated.

The list has been shaped up as follows:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Arenga engleri
4. Arenga pinnata
5. Basselinia pancheri
6. Beccariophoenix alfredii
7. Bentinckia condapanna
8. Brahea armata/edulis/decumbens
9. Burretiokentia vieillardii/hapala
10. Caryota gigas
11. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
12. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
13. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
14. Dypsis Ambositrae
15. Dypsis albofarinosa
16. Dypsis baronii
17. Dypsis decipiens
18. Dypsis lanceolata
19. Dypsis leptocheilos
20. Dypsis carlsmithii
21. Dypsis saintelucei
22. Dypsis onilahensis
23. Dypsis pilulifera
24. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
25. Hedyscepe canterburyana
26. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
27. Jubaea chilensis plus some hybrids i guess for faster growth
28. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
29. Laccospadix australasica
30. LInospadix monostachya
31. Lytocaryum weddelianum
32. Lanonia dasyantha
33. Latania loddigesii
34. Licuala peltata var. peltata
35. Licuala ramsayi
36. Licuala fordiana
37. Licuala spinosa
38. Pinanga caesia adangensis (probably under some canopy)?
39. Roystonea oleracea/regia/borinquena
40. Rhopalostylis sp (if someone can sort them by cold hardiness and heat resistance)
41. Satakentia liukiuensis

[Phoenikakias]

Still I AM NOT CONVINCED! Of course in a climate like this in beloved Cyprus the coconut should be the actual challenge! But the above list is overoptimistic for most european and mediterranean parts!

[CYPALMS]

Well, you have every right not to be convinced. It's not that i have them already growing and i can prove someone wrong. Can you elaborate further on the list, as to which part of the list is overoptimistic and for which areas? Perhaps this way you will provide some info on areas you have the experience about, so future readers of this thread will have your comments available to and help them decide.

But it makes me wonder...

Australian suggestions from places where it is cooler and damper in winter and some species will grow fine there. Hardy species down to -2 - 3C, some full sun tolerance others half sun etc. Cooler portuguese suggestions. I am sorry, but i have to try them. It is not like i am trying to grow a coconut. Besides, if i just keep reading a forum and accept that i can only grow syagrus and washingtonias and phoenix, what's the point?

And please not that i have not included any info on how slow/fast a species will be in any area. This is something to look for later.

I will be waiting for your specific comments.

[pigafetta]

I think you need to divide the list into two list.

Palms that will definitely grow and Palms that will maybe grow (survive)

Each climate is different so there is no hard and fast rules, but generally the two important aspects are what your lows are, and how much year round heat you have. (night time temps are also a factor)

Where i live even though I'm frost free a large amount of those palms on that list i can not grow just because we don't have enough year round heat, most of them have been tried and may survive for years and don't die from cold as such but just don't grow and slowly decline and die a slow death, some of the others on the list are possible but the position in the garden must be perfect, for example they must have as much sun as possible and be grown next to some thermal mass that stores heat like a brick wall that gets sun or next to a path or rocks and protected from cold winds.

Edited April 8, 2015 by pigafetta

[pigafetta]

Apologies first for leaving this for a couple of days, but some things will always be happening apart from palms, that will require our full time

Rafael thank you for your input, it also gave me the chance to check the 2 links in your signature with your beautiful gardens, one of which is a 9b zone, and the other one a 10A which are more or less the 2 corresponding zones for the mediterranean climate, apart of course of any special local climate characteristics. I am adding Dypsis ambositrae and will definately try out some condapanna just for the sake of trying.

Stelios thank you also for your input, all the way from pafos. Are you situated in the golden area of Pafos airport? Caryota gigas i am adding. I am not going to put on this list the Raphis excelsa, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, and Ravenea rivularis and Glauca as they can be found in nurseries and i am trying to build a list of uncommon palms to be tried out in our climate.

Pete thank you too for your input. Arenga pinnata will look nice when older with the long erect leaves and is a nice addition. Added Licuala fordiana and spinosa which have other supporters too and they are generally described as bulletproof in such climates.

Pigafeta, impressive list there. Laccospadix australasica will be an eye catcher i suppose. And Hedyscepe canterburyana is an awesome palm, albeit slow? Thank you very much for your input.

Phoenikakias, of course not all regions of the mediterranean have the same climate, but what if we can build a general mediterranean list here with the valuable input of fellow members and then let each person search further for region specific characteristics and narrow down this list according to his locale? Us Cypriots (well me actually) are only sick and tired of all those suagrus romanzoffiana and phoenix roboellenei and washingtonias planted in just about every corner and would really like to see some other beautifull palms around. The intended value of such a post is to create a short list for general mediterranean climate and allow interested members to limit their efforts in searching amongst 50-70 species and not trying to pick a palm from 2500.

Again thank you all for taking the time to leave a comment. Any other suggestions will be highly appreciated.

The list has been shaped up as follows:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Arenga engleri
4. Arenga pinnata
5. Basselinia pancheri
6. Beccariophoenix alfredii
7. Bentinckia condapanna
8. Brahea armata/edulis/decumbens
9. Burretiokentia vieillardii/hapala
10. Caryota gigas
11. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
12. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
13. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
14. Dypsis Ambositrae
15. Dypsis albofarinosa
16. Dypsis baronii
17. Dypsis decipiens
18. Dypsis lanceolata
19. Dypsis leptocheilos
20. Dypsis carlsmithii
21. Dypsis saintelucei
22. Dypsis onilahensis
23. Dypsis pilulifera
24. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
25. Hedyscepe canterburyana
26. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
27. Jubaea chilensis plus some hybrids i guess for faster growth
28. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
29. Laccospadix australasica
30. LInospadix monostachya
31. Lytocaryum weddelianum
32. Lanonia dasyantha
33. Latania loddigesii
34. Licuala peltata var. peltata
35. Licuala ramsayi
36. Licuala fordiana
37. Licuala spinosa
38. Pinanga caesia adangensis (probably under some canopy)?
39. Roystonea oleracea/regia/borinquena
40. Rhopalostylis sp (if someone can sort them by cold hardiness and heat resistance)
41. Satakentia liukiuensis

I highlighted in bold the palms that there is no way i could grow, not sure on the Licuala sp, but would be very sceptical on most I would never bother as don't have a spot wind protected enough id be surprised if i could grow more than L. ramsayi.

Dypsis calismithi and D. pilulifera i think a guy has them surviving but they grow so slow in our climate that it may take twenty years to get to point where they start to trunk.

Edited April 8, 2015 by pigafetta

[Sabal Steve]

Every Brahea grows here.

Every Sabal grows here.

Most Livistona, if not all, grow here.

All the Archontophoenix grow here.

Most, if not all, Phoenix grow here.

Serenoa repens.

Chambeyronia species grow here.

D. carlsmithii, D. pilulifera, and B. condapana grow here.

[Kostas]

Pritchardia schattaueri...with ease, even if it gets damage

Dypsis lastelliana has proved an easy and reliable one so far, damage possible

Cryosophila warscewiczii, very slight damage possible, if at all

Coccothrinax alexandrii var. alexandrii

Chamaedorea tepejilote(Blanco), damage possible

Bentickia condapanna. Saw -3C and didn't flinch....Slight damage possible, worth trying

Sabal domingensis, slight damage possible

Livistona mariae

Hedyscepe canterburyana, damage possible. In shade only

Ceroxylon amazonicum, in half sun/shade only, damage possible

Dictyosperma album v. rubrum, damage possible

Cyphophoenix alba, damage possible

Acanthophoenix rubra, damage possible

[Stelios]

George,

I'm not very far from Paphos airport. I'm in Geroskipou area. It's always interesting to see what other palms can grow in the Mediterranean climate than the common ones. Unfortunately here as you know the nurseries have few varieties comparing with other countries which have the same climate, when people can try different unusual palms. That is why I like to see here in PT the experience of other members like Kostas in Greece and others from all over the world with Mediterranean climate how successful they are with more unusual and more "difficult" palms. They proved that some palms are not impossible to grow with a little care. It's a good source of information and for me as a not experienced palm grower, it will be great to see what the others will add on your list. I can't wait to try some different varieties in my new garden as long as I can find them.

Stelios

[nick]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

[Pip]

I think the best guide for a comprehensive list of possible palms that grow in a Mediterranean climate already exists on the palmpedia website. There is a survivability index that is great because it groups palms according to cold tolerance.

[Phoenikakias]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

I do not mean to be rude, but putting in the same pot Phoenix roebeleni with Dypsis lutescens and madagascariensis is for MANY mediterranean areas pure SciFi! I do not wish to speak on behalf of Italian, French and Croatian growers. I just hope that one among them reports a success with at least one Dypsis beside decipiens in his area...

[Rafael]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

I do not mean to be rude, but putting in the same pot Phoenix roebeleni with Dypsis lutescens and madagascariensis is for MANY mediterranean areas pure SciFi! I do not wish to speak on behalf of Italian, French and Croatian growers. I just hope that one among them reports a success with at least one Dypsis beside decipiens in his area...

Konstantinos, the dypsis madagascariensis was a real surprise to me this hard winter. So much that i have just ordered two more...

George, thank you for your kind words hope you will be sucessfull growing all the listed species

BETWEEN: you can also add the dypsis plumosa to the list.

[Harry]

You can add Nannorrhops ritchiana & Copernicia alba to the list.

Trithrinax campestris is also bullet proof.

[Phoenikakias]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

I do not mean to be rude, but putting in the same pot Phoenix roebeleni with Dypsis lutescens and madagascariensis is for MANY mediterranean areas pure SciFi! I do not wish to speak on behalf of Italian, French and Croatian growers. I just hope that one among them reports a success with at least one Dypsis beside decipiens in his area...

Konstantinos, the dypsis madagascariensis was a real surprise to me this hard winter. So much that i have just ordered two more...

George, thank you for your kind words hope you will be sucessfull growing all the listed species

BETWEEN: you can also add the dypsis plumosa to the list.

Rafael, your climate is influenced significantly by the Atlantic and many nasty habits of pure mediterranean areas are thus prevented, such as to cold winter both in temps and perpetuity or to hot and dry summer. Both factors are not promoting for any Dypsis

[nick]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

I do not mean to be rude, but putting in the same pot Phoenix roebeleni with Dypsis lutescens and madagascariensis is for MANY mediterranean areas pure SciFi! I do not wish to speak on behalf of Italian, French and Croatian growers. I just hope that one among them reports a success with at least one Dypsis beside decipiens in his area...

Phoenikakias, sorry it's not my fault, but Cyprus also belongs to the med.

[Jim in Los Altos]

nice thread here. I would add

Howea forsteriana (in a half sunny spot)

dypsis madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis caffra

phoenix roebelenii

Dypsis lutescens

these are also growing in Cyprus

I do not mean to be rude, but putting in the same pot Phoenix roebeleni with Dypsis lutescens and madagascariensis is for MANY mediterranean areas pure SciFi! I do not wish to speak on behalf of Italian, French and Croatian growers. I just hope that one among them reports a success with at least one Dypsis beside decipiens in his area...

Konstantinos, There are too many Dypsis to list that grow very well in our California Meditteranean climate. I'm way up north and have, besides D. decipiens, D. carlsmithii, D. piluifera, D. decaryi, D. ambositrae, D. onilahensis, D. albofarinosa, D. mahajanga, D. fibrosa, and many more doing very well. Dypsis Dean may chime in. He's a Meditteranean guru of Dypsis growers. Is the Cypress climate that different from California's as far as cold is concerned?

[Cikas]

Real Meditteranean is much more hoter in summer during the nights than California. Also summers are generally hoter in real Meditteranean than in Meditteranean parts of California.

Also real Meditteranean is more humid during the winter than Meditteranean parts of California. Our falls and springs are also humid.

Humidity in winter + coolish weather can be much more dangerus than temperatures below freezing ( crown rot ).

Dypsis species have problem with our winter humidity and Hot summers ( days and nights are HOT ).

Edited April 9, 2015 by Cikas

[Phoenikakias]

Real Meditteranean is much more hoter in summer during the nights than California. Also summers are generally hoter in real Meditteranean than in Meditteranean parts of California.

Also real Meditteranean is more humid during the winter than Meditteranean parts of California. Our falls and springs are also humid.

Humidity in winter + coolish weather can be much more dangerus than temperatures below freezing ( crown rot ).

Dypsis species have problem with our winter humidity and Hot summers ( days and nights are HOT ).

Now imo an absolutely realistic approach. I have only to add the narration of some Greek friends of mine, who visited SoCa during summer. They said it was COLD during certain hours of a day.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[CYPALMS]

Stelios, the copernicia grows at a good rate or does it want some more heat during the winter? I really like them but since you mentioned it, i would like to know a bit more before i get one.

For the purpose of this topic i would consider a mediterranean climate to have the following characteristics

• Winters with max lows of -2C/26F (very rare events)
• Summers with max highs 45C/113F
• Humidity on average around 75% with the exception of daytime hot dry winds in the summer
• Moderate winds
• Number of sunny days around 220 per year

In my initial post i had stated the above charectiristics which probably fit what Cikas is saying.

in the meantime I made a quick search for Los Altos climate and it seems that if there is a place with prolonged coolish winter with high humidity (from the mediterranean climate areas), this place is Los Altos. Even now in April, night temperatures are down to 7C and humidity 75 - 100%. Wonder what January conditions where like. If Jim has all these Dypsis species he mentioned above planted in the ground with no special treatment during winter, then i find it hard to believe that we would not be able to grow few Dypsis (not the touchy ones) in the actual mediterranean basin. And this is about the cold part of the year.

Could our dry summers (during the daytime) be addressed with higher or more frequent irrigation? Probably for some species that will be the case but if we never try, we will never find out. Speaking of which, have you guys already tried any Dypsis (apart of the obvous) in Croatia or Greece and have failed in short time? If yes, could you describe the conditions under which this happened so we can exclude them from the discussion? Mind you, we are talking about mature plants (probably established in the ground for a season) and not seedlings or juveniles. These early stages should be spent in a shadehouse/coldframe.

As more and more information is becoming available it seems that we will eventually come to some conclusions after all. If any other members with actual experience in such conditions could chime in, that would be really nice.

The goal here is not to fulfill some personal dream, but to make the palm world visible to more people in our region.

George

[Phoenikakias]

When I sound so absolute is only because on several occasions any trial with Dypsis was having always same result, whether in pot, or outplanted or outdoors, or in shadehouse...

[Dypsisdean]

Real Meditteranean is much more hoter in summer during the nights than California. Also summers are generally hoter in real Meditteranean than in Meditteranean parts of California.

Also real Meditteranean is more humid during the winter than Meditteranean parts of California. Our falls and springs are also humid.

Humidity in winter + coolish weather can be much more dangerus than temperatures below freezing ( crown rot ).

Dypsis species have problem with our winter humidity and Hot summers ( days and nights are HOT ).

Now imo an absolutely realistic approach. I have only to add the narration of some Greek friends of mine, who visited SoCa during summer. They said it was COLD during certain hours of a day.

For those unfamiliar with SoCal, it is not uncommon to drive 15 minutes in summer from 70º F on the coast to 90º F inland. Many visitors comment that it is cold for summer if they went there for the beach weather.

Most people refer to SoCal as a Mediterranean climate - and I would have to agree that a large area of SoCal would qualify as such - but certainly not all.

[Pal Meir]

What I am missing here are the real NATIVE mediterranean (and endemic) palm species:

Chamaerops humilis (Italy, Spain)

Chamaerops hum. cerifera (Morocco, Algeria)

Phoenix theophrasti (Greece, Turkey)

Or do you discuss here only the non-native palms? What about all the Butias, if the soil is sandy and carbonate free?

[Tenerife]

It also depends in which part we are focusing on! We can talk from typical mediterranean climate like in Rome (for putting an example) with hot summers and quite cold winters, or mediterranean climate with subtropical and mild influences, like in Málaga for putting another example; with very mild winters and hot summers.

I would add to that list Roystonea Regia, Archontophoenix Cunninghamia, Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Howea Forsteriana, Ravenea Rivularis, Dypsis Lutescens... but note that I've seen those palms only in the named "Costa Tropical" on the southern part of Spain. I've never seen any Roystoneas or Dypsis in Murcia, Seville or Alicante. In Alicante i've seen Archontophoenix and Howea, but those ones I've mentioned above I've only seen them in Málaga.

I think that in the Mediterranean, specially referring to the southern part of Spain, southern part of Portugal, Malta, Crete and ¿maybe Cyprus? we can grow almost all kinds of existing palm trees. Obviously coconuts not hehe!

[Tenerife]

To our american with similar climate buddies... we have 11a zones in Europe. Located in the southernmost part of Spain, ¿maybe a Little part of the southernmost part of Algarve is 11a too? and in Malta.

Lampedusa maybe has 11a too, and I don't know Cyprus because Cyprus hasn't got very much climate data, or at least in latin alphabet. I've only seen info of Nicosia which is 10b.

Cyprus maybe can have small zones with 11a climate but I won't say anything because I really don't know what to say. But Malta and the majority of "Costa Tropical" from Spain, is 11a. Costa tropical is this: (obviously 11a are found in locations not very far from the coast and in zones with not very much altitude) :

Almeria also is the unique place in continental Europe without recorded temperatures below the freezing mark in the history. Malta also hasn't got any temperature ever registered below the freezing mark; and Cyprus I don't know if it has zones or not, but from what I can get from the internet Nicosia experienced frozens, and Limassol experienced very very light frozens, (-0.0ºC). Maybe our Cypriot buddies can answer us this thing!

Edited April 10, 2015 by Tenerife

[Phoenikakias]

And how much of the total european mediterranean coastline make out three islands and the southernmost coastal line of the iberian peninsula? Is it justified to say that palms doing well only there are qualified as REGULARLY suitable for the mediterranean basin?!

[nick]

@ Tenerife

Paphos region in Cyprus must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia. There are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions. No one would do this in regions with slight and occasionally frost during the winter period.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit an so on without special treatment. If you study the topographic map of CY you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

Nicosia is not as winter mild as the southern CY costal areas. In the past, I did some comparisons in this forum regarding the climate in Cyprus (Paphos, Limassol) and San Diego and Malaga. Very very similar.

[Tenerife]

@ Tenerife

Paphos region in Cyprus must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia. There are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions. No one would do this in regions with slight and occasionally frost during the winter period.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit an so on without special treatment. If you study the topographic map of CY you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

Nicosia is not as winter mild as the southern CY costal areas. In the past, I did some comparisons in this forum regarding the climate in Cyprus (Paphos, Limassol) and San Diego and Malaga. Very very similar.

In some few spots exists banana plantations for commercial purposes too, but mainly local. (they grow other fruits like avocado or mango which give a lot more money). Well, if I tell you the truth I've seen even local bananas in the south coast of Valencia for sell. But obviously all of those plantations are local intended, not at large scale. Avocado is a lot more productive tan banana, and the people with soil prefers to plant avocados or the traditional fruit in Valencia, which is the sweet sweet form of the oranges (this race of oranges losses all of his fruits if they are exposed a few hours hours even to -0ºC); -2ºC for example would kill the fruits in 1-2 hours. This never happened in the coast but it happened some years ago a bit in the interior of Valencia at about 200m altitude and with -2ºC they loss all their fruits from the plantations for that year.

The medium/big trees didn't suffered very much, but the fruit remained useless. That happened about ~20km at interior and at about 200m +/- depeding the zone. I've seen even this race of oranges planted at about 250m altitude, but it all depends of microclimates. Normal oranges/tangerines are seen in Valencia even near to 50km at interior far from the coastline and near to 500m, because they enjoy a mild microclimate zone in the Valencia city area. The north coast of Alicante for example only can grow oranges 10-15km inland, because it's all very arid and in most winters a lot of places located not very far from the sea get light frozens.

Also papayas grow good in the named "Tropical Coast". When I was there I was very very surprised, the vegetation on the streets makes you feel that you are in Madeira. A lot of roystoneas are planted on public, and I don't know any other place in Europe with that large amount of roystoneas. Papayas only grow in very specific places and very near to the coastline:

Also, they grow for commercial purposes avocado (well, avocado grows from all the Spanish coast from Castellón to Cádiz) but there also exists "chirimoya" (I don't know the translation) and mango. From what I know, this is the unique place in all Europe with mango plantations for commercial purposes. Mangos are produced in large scale, in their season when they are good for collect, you can find them in a lot of Spanish supermarkets, even in Aldi or LIDL I've seen a lot of times mangos from "La Costa Tropical"; they also export them to Europe, but most of them remain in Spain because of the big demand of mangos inside Spain.

Well, I've said that from what I know this is the unique place in all Europe growing in large scale without protection. (not considering Madeira or Canaries) but if you know another place tell me! It would be great to know it

Thank you for your reply buddy! Kind regards

PS: SORRY FOR ALL THE EDITIONS! BUT I CORRECT SPELLING MISTAKES !

Edited April 10, 2015 by Tenerife

[Phoenikakias]

Do the royal palms (Roystonea) produce already fruits there? 'Chirimoya' is the Anona fruit. It is produced also in the island of Kos for the local market only and the fruits are commonly called Kaimak, a turkish word for milk cream.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Phoenikakias