Mediterranean List of Palms

[Charles Wychgel]

Any Attaleas in Europe? I have only tried dubia which looks very promising. Leaves are now well over 4m and not even close to trunking!

I've never heard this. Also, I've never heard of Attaleas even in my place, here in Tenerife. Maybe I've seen a couple, but when they are small they are so similar to Ravenea Rivularis that I don't know what to say.

I've seen for example hundreds of coconuts but attaleas never. It would be great to know if someone has one in his/her garden! It's a very beautiful palm.

Attalea in the Algarve photo Feb. 2014

[CYPALMS]

Guys, can you please move the climate argument elsewhere? You can discuss this eternally and never reach an agreement. Probably a mistake on me for choosing such a title for the topic, but if i had put "Cyprus List of Palms" i guess we wouldnt see some of the info posted. The reason i chose mediterranean list of palms was because there are many places similar to Cyprus, as well as equally many places different than Cyprus, but all of them with similar characteristics.

At the earlier posts, i was trying to build a list with palms. Instead of arguing about definitions, why dont you just say, these palms from the list will fail in my place and these have a fair chance of doing well? I was looking for some help with species already tried in your region. For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions, or here is a photo of Bentinckia condapanna growing in ..... 4 years old.

That way we can help more people decide if they will go for neww species or not.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I do not see anything about 41 days below freezing on average for that city, on that link.

Also Rome is located on the west side of Apennine Peninsula not east.

As for Madrid. That climate looks too cold for palms you mentioned. Also I do not see alot of palms in Madrid photos. Only palms I see are Trachycarpus.

Only Trachycarpus? ok. Please read this post from the bottom to the top.

Look at the single first chart from above at your quote. It look likes the perfect environment for those palm trees Yep, maybe a bit cold minimums, but you know that Madrid only has an average of 15 days of freezings?

Yep, in Girona it shows 41 days with temperatures below the freezing mark. 41.8 to be more precise: http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=0367&k=cattake a look at DH (Dias de Heladas)

Really frozens are more common than you can think in the Mediterranean zone, and Girona it's very close to the sea. It's funny to know that Girona has more freezes in a year than Madrid!

http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=3195&k=madMadrid city has in average only 15.7 days with temps below the freezing mark. Consider that Madrid is one of the remoteness points in all the Iberian Peninsula from the sea, it's between 650-700m altitude too; and the lowest temperature recorded is higher than a lot of places located at the Mediterranean coast... (Montpellier's extreme is -17ºC for example) It enjoys a very special climate considering the factors. It's not only by the big city phenomenon. Palm trees grow even better in Getafe or Alcorcón, which are separated from the "big city area". I will post some photos at the bottom.

Yep, in Madrid grows without problems Phoenixes, Washingtonias, Dracaenas, Braheas and Livinstonia Chinensis. Parajubeas I don't know because I think I've seen a couple but I wasn't very sure if they were Parajubaeas or not. I wanted to say Butias when I've said Parajubaeas. Think that every palm tree that grows on 9a hardiness zone will do it on Madrid. In fact Madrid has a very very similar climates to many places located in the Mediterranean coast. Like for example Montpellier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpellier#Climatethe climates are almost the same, and maybe it freezes more on Montpellier. In fact, the lowest recorded in Montpellier is a loot lower than the lowest from Madrid.

I don't win anything lying. From here, behind a computer I don't know. But I think that really you still have a "challenging" attitude with me... why? For the discussion we had some months ago? That's old water. You have to forgive that.

I mean this is a thread for palm trees in Mediterranean climates. Madrid has a mediterranean climate, it grows palm trees, why you tell that you only see Trachycarpus? By searching "Palm trees in Madrid" through Google obviously you don't gonna see anything. But also if you search "Oranges in Dubrovnik" you don't gonna see any plantations of oranges, and we both know that Dubrovnik has plantations of oranges. Or not? We discussed for this in the past as you know I mean Google Images has got a very small potential for looking specially in trees and palm trees. Also we were both in the same thread in February when I've putted a lot of photos of palm trees in Madrid and his surroundings... so why you challenge me everytime I post here? Please don't more discussions and we are better focusing on the thread. You are from Dubrovnik, tell us your palm experiences because you have a Med. climate too!

Yes you're right buddy. Rome is on the West coast. I was too tired the day I wrote East coast and I didn't noticed the mistake

Well. Because i'm not a liar, I will put some pictures to prove what i've said. In this first photo you can see it's winter by the trees at the end:

If you want I can keep posting photos. I can put at least a hundred of photos of palm trees in Madrid or near Madrid. And I don't even need to look at Street View... as you can see all those species do quite well in that climate. Obviously it's not at every roundabout, every avenue, or every corner like you can see in the coast of Spain, but it's in a lot of private houses, and in a few roundabouts, squares, parks... the botanical garden of Madrid (the outdoor garden, not the indoor) has at least 2 specimens of all palm trees I've mentioned above, and the only care they get during winters is that they tie their leaves to the weakest genres of palm trees because as you know that helps them from the cold.

Alcoy for example, quite close to the sea but at high altitude, located in the province of Alicante, has even syagrus. Alcoy is about 600m altitude but the city is very rare, because it's staggered. In the highest point of the city limits, it's about 700m altitude and still you can see palms. In fact, Ibi, located in Alicante province too, it's at 820m altitude and I've seen huge CIDP and Washingtonias there. Ibi has a very similar climate to Alcoy, it's at a highest point but the mountains play a good paper in that climate, because they stop the coldest airflows. In Alcoy i've seen Syagrus (and other palm trees which I can't specify, because I don't know their names but they are for sure more weak speaking about cold tolerance), Parajubaeas and Phoenix Roebelenii, which are one of the weakest Phoenix talking about cold, or maybe the weakest.

Kind regards mate! And please no more discussions. Ok¿? Let's just talk about palms in this great forum. Regards!

A friend of mine living in Madrid told me once a story about how once his wet hair got frozen while he was riding his bicycle! As for palms in Madrid there should be also CIDP's which however should get extensive leaf scorch during some winter.

Yes that's true buddy! In winter most medium-extensive leaf scorch. Some get a bit only, but all of them get at least a bit.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Guys, can you please move the climate argument elsewhere? You can discuss this eternally and never reach an agreement. Probably a mistake on me for choosing such a title for the topic, but if i had put "Cyprus List of Palms" i guess we wouldnt see some of the info posted. The reason i chose mediterranean list of palms was because there are many places similar to Cyprus, as well as equally many places different than Cyprus, but all of them with similar characteristics.

At the earlier posts, i was trying to build a list with palms. Instead of arguing about definitions, why dont you just say, these palms from the list will fail in my place and these have a fair chance of doing well? I was looking for some help with species already tried in your region. For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions, or here is a photo of Bentinckia condapanna growing in ..... 4 years old.

That way we can help more people decide if they will go for neww species or not.

Yep, that is what I was saying in the last page. No more discussions please, and at least no discussions about a place which isn't ours, because Google is not God and not all what Google says it's true.

Yes, talk more about experiences please! In a place near here, named Cullera (it has a very slightly colder climate than my place, but they get more cold during cold spells, sometimes even 3ºC or a bit more colder than here) I've remember that some user of another Spanish forum, said that most of his roystoneas died during a "hard" winter. (not with freezes, but quite colder than the normal 7ºC low average during January) Well, the roystoneas were small, were unprotected too, and they were a lot because they were intended for commercial purposes; a pity! but in the same hard winter the roystoneas from here only got some leaf scorch... and in Cullera, most of his roystoneas died.

I would like a lot to hear experiences of people living in the "Costa Tropical". The climate difference is not very big (well they are 11a here at my place is 10b) but their Roystoneas grow like in Canaries or in Taiwan! Really 2ºC more on the low temperatures on winters, and about 1ºC more on maximums are so important? Well also in winters we got a couple cold spells during the year in which the temperature can drop a lot, even to only 2.9ºC like in this year; and Málaga/Almuñecar/etc (all of that named "Tropical Coast") doesn't have this hard temperature drops during cold spells, they mostly get affected by maximums, not lows. Maybe this is an important factor too?

Edited April 23, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[nick]

For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions...

OK better to talk about experience. But to say, even Cyprus has a lot of climatic zones in diffferent elevations and the "Mediterranean" in general can be very different. My garden is approx. 120m above sea level.

Referring to your example, it would be interesting why a beauty like "D. leptocheilos" failed - which conditions do you have in your garden? The cold during the winter or a too sunny spot?

As I know some palms suffer because a lack of iron. E.g. "Ph. roebelenii" does it well in our garden in full sun with low maintenance. I have also planted a really tiny seedling "D. leptocheilos x decaryi" 2 years ago and it took the last winters very well. If you can get this hybrid I would try it, because it has a higher drought-tolerance of the decaryi part. It seems that Decaryi likes the Cypriot sunny and hot conditions. But little protection against the sun is needed for now.

More recommendations: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/45409-mediterranean-list-of-palms/#entry700432

Edited April 24, 2015 by nick

[Cikas]

Only Trachycarpus? ok. Please read this post from the bottom to the top.

Look at the single first chart from above at your quote. It look likes the perfect environment for those palm trees Yep, maybe a bit cold minimums, but you know that Madrid only has an average of 15 days of freezings?

Yep, in Girona it shows 41 days with temperatures below the freezing mark. 41.8 to be more precise: http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=0367&k=cattake a look at DH (Dias de Heladas)

Really frozens are more common than you can think in the Mediterranean zone, and Girona it's very close to the sea. It's funny to know that Girona has more freezes in a year than Madrid!

http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=3195&k=madMadrid city has in average only 15.7 days with temps below the freezing mark. Consider that Madrid is one of the remoteness points in all the Iberian Peninsula from the sea, it's between 650-700m altitude too; and the lowest temperature recorded is higher than a lot of places located at the Mediterranean coast... (Montpellier's extreme is -17ºC for example) It enjoys a very special climate considering the factors. It's not only by the big city phenomenon. Palm trees grow even better in Getafe or Alcorcón, which are separated from the "big city area". I will post some photos at the bottom.

Yep, in Madrid grows without problems Phoenixes, Washingtonias, Dracaenas, Braheas and Livinstonia Chinensis. Parajubeas I don't know because I think I've seen a couple but I wasn't very sure if they were Parajubaeas or not. I wanted to say Butias when I've said Parajubaeas. Think that every palm tree that grows on 9a hardiness zone will do it on Madrid. In fact Madrid has a very very similar climates to many places located in the Mediterranean coast. Like for example Montpellier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpellier#Climatethe climates are almost the same, and maybe it freezes more on Montpellier. In fact, the lowest recorded in Montpellier is a loot lower than the lowest from Madrid.

I don't win anything lying. From here, behind a computer I don't know. But I think that really you still have a "challenging" attitude with me... why? For the discussion we had some months ago? That's old water. You have to forgive that.

I mean this is a thread for palm trees in Mediterranean climates. Madrid has a mediterranean climate, it grows palm trees, why you tell that you only see Trachycarpus? By searching "Palm trees in Madrid" through Google obviously you don't gonna see anything. But also if you search "Oranges in Dubrovnik" you don't gonna see any plantations of oranges, and we both know that Dubrovnik has plantations of oranges. Or not? We discussed for this in the past as you know I mean Google Images has got a very small potential for looking specially in trees and palm trees. Also we were both in the same thread in February when I've putted a lot of photos of palm trees in Madrid and his surroundings... so why you challenge me everytime I post here? Please don't more discussions and we are better focusing on the thread. You are from Dubrovnik, tell us your palm experiences because you have a Med. climate too!

Yes you're right buddy. Rome is on the West coast. I was too tired the day I wrote East coast and I didn't noticed the mistake

Well. Because i'm not a liar, I will put some pictures to prove what i've said. In this first photo you can see it's winter by the trees at the end:

Dracena in climate like that is impossible. Only some yucca species can grow in climate like that ( yucca and Cordyline species look somewhat similar, but they are alot more hardy ).

Also to me that average of minimal temperatures and 15 days a year with temperatures below freezing sounds more like USDA 8 not 9. Sounds to cold for zone 9.

For example. City of Split is USDA 9a or bordeline USDA 9a/9b, and it has higher average of minimal and maximal temperatures. And freezing temperatures are rare.

I'am suprised that Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta can grow in Madrid. With that average low and 15 days a year with temperatures below freezing, I would expect them to be beaten up or dead.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[Cikas]

City of Rijeka is USDA 8. And even Rijeka has higher average minimal temperatures than Madrid.

And they do not grow Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia robusta in Rijeka.

But Rijeka is 3 times more humid than Madrid.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[Phoenikakias]

Here ya go again

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Here ya go again

Not buddy, why ?

He is saying that he is suprised and he didn't believed that those palms grow in that climate. This is not any problem we can discuss in the good mod like right now, this is how I like to talk, but not "with disputes".

City of Rijeka is USDA 8. And even Rijeka has higher average minimal temperatures than Madrid.

And they do not grow Phoenix canariensis or Washingtonia robusta in Rijeka.

But Rijeka is 3 times more humid than Madrid.

Yep, Madrid is on 9a zone and all the hardiness map agree this. In Google you can find a lot of imprecise hardiness maps like this one, (imprecise because they are at big scale and they don't show the 11a zones in the Iberian Peninsula because they consider it's only in a few places to put it in the map, or something like this lol ) but all agree that in Madrid (and Zaragoza too) are on 9 zone: (Madrid is located at the map on the A of Spain)

This is the most precise map i've ever seen for Hardiness in Spain:

This map correctly shows hardiness zones in Spain. It's not like all the other maps which were made in a big scale for Europe. In 11a zones are where roystoneas grow very huge; and they can't do it in my 10b zone

You want something more surprising ? In Zaragoza, with this climate: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaragoza#Clima they have syagrus and parajubaeas planted in public. Well they were planted as mature palms; but the winters in Zaragoza are only a bit hotter than in Madrid (Zaragoza is 9a too, like Madrid all the hardiness maps, even the ones at large scale say that Zaragoza is 9a) and the averages for January are 10.3/2.4! Let me some time to find those photos. I think that the very hot summers of Spain might compensate the winters... Although the winters of Madrid and Zaragoza aren't very hard... but as you can see some kinds of palms enrol good

Maybe Rijeka has more freezes in a year ¿? If it's 8 zone that's maybe they can't grow Phoenix and Washingtonias... and also as you know 2ºC with rain is not the same as 2ºC with a dry ambient. Maybe this is important too...

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

As you can see. Rijeka is warmer than Madrid. It has higher average minimum temperatures than Madrid. So that means that Rijeka has less freezes than Madrid and higher minimal temperatures.

But Rijeka is USDA 8. So Madrid is USDA 8 too, or both Rijeka and Madrid are really USDA 9. In that case, that climate map of Europe is wrong.

Also some parts of Adriatic area are USDA 10. Some islands in Adriatic almost never have temperatures below freezing.

It is clear that humidity is very important. Dry winters are always better than humid ones for palms.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

As you can see. Rijeka is warmer than Madrid. It has higher average minimum temperatures than Madrid. So that means that Rijeka has less freezes than Madrid and higher minimal temperatures.

But Rijeka is USDA 8. So Madrid is USDA 8 too, or both Rijeka and Madrid are really USDA 9. In that case, that climate map of Europe is wrong.

Also some parts of Adriatic area are USDA 10. Some islands in Adriatic almost never have temperatures below freezing.

It is clear that humidity is very important. Dry winters are always better than humid ones for palms.

Buddy, I don't want to be rude, but now you are with me. Madrid is not USDA 8 because you say it. It's 9a, like all the climate charts say. I've put photos of differents kinds of palm trees, and 2 hardiness maps. Why I would lie?

The thing about the freezes is not exactly like that. Higher lows does not mean less freezes. Madrid city has 15.7 freezes in a year for average; but Montpellier for example is at the sea, the lowest temperature recorded ever is -17.8ºC (which is a lot colder than the lowest ever in Madrid) and the average lows in Montpellier are 2.8 during January, exactly like Madrid (2.7 has Madrid) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpellier#Climate And I can ensure you that Montpellier has more freezes. You don't believe me? Wait until the next winter and look everyday at the chart of Wetterzentrale. Girona for example has 3 times more freezes than Madrid in a year... (like I've put in the link from the above post) and Girona is near the sea, like Montpellier. In fact Girona and Montpellier are very close.

Really that's not very important. Like you may know (you where with me this last Winter in the Thread "Winter in Europe 2014") I posted one day one photo with the European temperatures from Wetterzentrale, and the north coast of Greece had -6ºC and -7ºC. Madrid in this entire year never arrived to -6ºC. -6ºC is very hard to see in Madrid. And Kavala, Greece, has warmer winters than Madrid. But average lows doesn't care very much about freezings. Cold spells do affect quite harder the Adriatic zone than the Iberian Peninsula. Also, you have more cold spells in that zone that we do... Look for example at Alexandroupoli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandroupoli#Climateit has a pure Mediterranean climate, and the winters are colder than in Madrid. With this i'm showing you that perhaps if Madrid is very far from the sea, and it's at high altitude, Madrid has a pure 100% Mediterranean climate. Madrid has warmer winters than Girona or Alexandroupoli and many other places located at the Mediterranean coast! Why I would lie, my friend? I'm not a liar. And you can check it by yourself...

You see, Montpellier is on the Mediterranean coast and they are on 8b, instead of Madrid which is on 9a.

Obviously as you say, those maps are at large scale and they aren't very precise in small zones. Spain has many zones with 11a climate but they are quite small. The same as the example you've put with some parts of the Adriatic that are USDA 10. But even the maps at large scale, all show Madrid inside the 9 hardiness zone. You can search by yourself the Hardiness guide and also Madrid is 9a. This is the most precise map for Hardiness in Spain and also shows Madrid on 9a:

I mean you say it by yourself. I don't know where is Rijeka and it's climate. I would not speak about that place because I don't know it, but as you say by yourself, you don't found phoenixes and washingtonias in Rijeka. Think by yourself why. If you said that Rijeka is on zone 8 and those palms don't grow in that climate... For why you think??That's because Rijeka has more freezes and more hard freezes. If not, how could you explain that is on zone 8, it doesn't have those palms and it has warmer winters but phoenix/washingtonias don't grow?

Also winter ranges from 21 December to 21 March; and in the climate charts you've put above, I see that Madrid has warmer temps in February and March. Maybe this is important too.

But what is true is that all the hardiness maps say that is zone 9a... So why we are discussing again ? This is senseless...

Everytime I wrote something, you compare it with another place and you want to challenge me everytime... WHY? I shown to you various real maps of Hardiness zones showing that Madrid is 9a and you say it's 8 (only by you acknowledge, without any references) and you compare it to another place. Why you do this to me? I'm tired of arguing. Like you see everytime I have a reply to you and I reply with references... Why I would lie? Please can we go back to the thread? Thanks.

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Rijeka only has 4 days with temperatures below freezing a year. And it is warmer than Madrid. As you can see on chartz.

Apsolute minimum ever recorded temperatures does not mean much. Because that is record temperature, not something normal. Higher apsolute minimum means less freezes. Freezing temperatures would lowered down the average minimal temperature.

Average temperatures are normal temperatures. Only huge difference is in humidity between Rijeka and Madrid. Rijeka has more than 3 time higher amount of percipitation a year.

So Rijeka and Madrid can not be in differents USDA zones.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions...

OK better to talk about experience. But to say, even Cyprus has a lot of climatic zones in diffferent elevations and the "Mediterranean" in general can be very different. My garden is approx. 120m above sea level.

Referring to your example, it would be interesting why a beauty like "D. leptocheilos" failed - which conditions do you have in your garden? The cold during the winter or a too sunny spot?

As I know some palms suffer because a lack of iron. E.g. "Ph. roebelenii" does it well in our garden in full sun with low maintenance. I have also planted a really tiny seedling "D. leptocheilos x decaryi" 2 years ago and it took the last winters very well. If you can get this hybrid I would try it, because it has a higher drought-tolerance of the decaryi part. It seems that Decaryi likes the Cypriot sunny and hot conditions. But little protection against the sun is needed for now.

More recommendations: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/45409-mediterranean-list-of-palms/#entry700432

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

I'm waiting for someone from Malta to enter this thread (for example @SouthSeaNate ) if someone knows how them enrol there... ?

I wish they could grow in my zone as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain:

My zone climate is very similar to Cyprus; is like a mixture between Paphos and Larnaca. In fact, here the last freeze was a long time ago; before 2000. And I wish they could grow like in Málaga (2 photos from above); look at how they look there:

They don't die, and they don't look really very bad... but also they don't grow as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain. Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested! @CYPALMS also I call you

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Also Madrid was colder than Rijeka last winter and year. With much lower apsolute minimal temperatures. Some parts of Madrid where at -6ºC. The lowest recorded in Rijeka where -3.8ºC, and in some parts only at -2ºC, last winter.

So Rijeka and Madrid can not be in differents USDA zones.

In my opinion all USDA chartz for Europe are wrong. Rijeka is located on the north of Croatia coast on Adriatic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijeka

So if some plants can be grown in Madrid and not in Rijeke. Then different amount of percipitations is only reason why.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Rijeka only has 4 days with temperatures below freezing a year. And it is warmer than Madrid. As you can see on chartz.

Apsolute minimum ever recorded temperatures does not mean much. Because that is record temperature, not something normal. Higher apsolute minimum means less freezes. Freezing temperatures would lowered down the average minimal temperature.

Average temperatures are normal temperatures. Only huge difference is in humidity between Rijeka and Madrid. Rijeka has more than 3 time higher amount of percipitation a year.

So Rijeka and Madrid can not be in differents USDA zones.

It sounds very strage to me that a place which only has 3.8 and 3.7ºC minimum averages during January and February only gets 4 days below freezing marks. Can you put the source please? It's very strange...

Murcia has 18.6ºC year average. 16.6/4.7 during January (the coldest month) and 18.4/5.9 during February, which is a lot hotter than Rijeka. (the maximum is almost the double) and Murcia gets 5 days with temps below the freezing mark... But well, I said a lot of times to please stop this silly discussion (which you've started this time) and go to the thread. Can we do this? Also I don't care what happens in Rijeke, I don't mentioned it.

Madrid didn't get to -6ºC this entire winter. The absolute lowest is -10ºC and at the airport (quite colder) not even at the city lol... Other parts of surrounding cities maybe, which are at more than 800m altitude.

But Madrid? It was -4ºC I think. Why you speak about a place you don't know ? 2 months ago you were yelling at me because I've spoken about Dubrovnik and now you make statements without references ?

Also Madrid was colder than Rijeka last winter and year. With much lower apsolute minimal temperatures. Some parts of Madrid where at -6ºC. The lowest recorded in Rijeka where -3.8ºC, and in some parts only at -2ºC, last winter.

So Rijeka and Madrid can not be in differents USDA zones.

In my opinion all USDA chartz for Europe are wrong. Rijeka is located on the north of Croatia coast on Adriatic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijeka

So if some plants can be grown in Madrid and not in Rijeke. Then different amount of percipitations is only reason why.

Man Cikas you are really irritating buddy... Why do you still trying to convince me? ALL the hardiness maps (even that very worked map from above) put Madrid on zone 9a. Why do you try to deny the truth?

And also who talked about Rijeke? Why you still try to compare everything I put with places of Croatia and you still try to challenge me? Please, I asked you to please stop this silly discussion a lot of posts ago! Can we continue the thread?? And also Washingtonias and Phoenix grow at Ibi, located at 820m altitude. One of the highest points in all Europe which has those palm trees. Maybe Rijeke does not have those palm trees because a. it's too cold. b. the mayor of Rijeke never wanted to put those palm trees. Plant some of them and look by yourself if they grow or not. But why you still trying to convince me only "because you say it's 8 and not 9" this is senseless buddy...

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Some parts of Madrid where indeed at -6ºC.

http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/2014/ws-82210.html

Also this topic is not about Spain. It is about Mediterranean Europe. And the same way as you write about Spain, other people can write about parts of Mediterranean Europe where they live.

Once again you turned some topic about Europe all about you.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Some parts of Madrid where indeed at -6ºC.

http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/2014/ws-82210.html

Also this topic is not about Spain. It is about Mediterranean Europe. And the same way as you write about Spain, other people can write about parts of Mediterranean Europe where they live.

Once again you turned some topic about Europe all about you.

1. Yep, Madrid BARAJAS. Exactly what I've said. The airport, not the city

2. YOU turned this climate about YOU. Exactly, other people can write, this is exactly what I am asking for from the last 10 posts, but you don't allow to do it because you everytime make a challenge.

I try to apport here, I try to keep away the discussion (Post #84, #93) and you still involved with the discussion you started. And you really say me that I've turned this thread to mine? You are very rude my friend.

3. I didn't mentioned "Rijeke" or other places. Why you ALWAYS try to compete when I put something with a place of Croatia? Who mentioned Croatia? I'm telling you to keep with this thread and you continue in a dispute. Who don't allow you to talk about Croatia? You don't talk about Croatia, you only try to compete with me putting silly climate charts and now you accuse me of exactly what are you doing? Everyone reading this thread can see of who is the problem here and who started all of this... but whatever, I don't even care. I'm not replying your battle intents anymore...

Please read my entire posts in this thread, don't lie. I've entered here to talk about my palm experiences and then you came to challenge me by your acknowledgement, not even with sources/references. But I repeat you that this is not a battle thread... First I speak about Seville and you try to convince me that it doesn't have a mediterranean climate while I prove you that you are wrong. Then I speak about Málaga, located at the Mediterranean with climate zone, then about Madrid, the same, and then about my place, the same. Then you come and you say that those palm trees don't grow in Madrid. I prove you were wrong. Then you start again with your disputes saying that Madrid is 9a. I prove you were wrong. Now you don't have more arguments and you say me I turned this thread to mine because I reply you with references and you only say what you want. Whatever...

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Maybe Rijeke does not have those palm trees because a. it's too cold. b. the mayor of Rijeke never wanted to put those palm trees. Plant some of them and look by yourself if they grow or not. But why you still trying to convince me only "because you say it's 8 and not 9" this is senseless buddy...

Actually as you can see, temperatures in Rijeka are warmer. Not colder than Madrid.

Also I'am comparing these two cities because they have somewhat similar temperatures. And Rijeka is in these USDA maps zone 8.

So it is not logical, for Madrid to be in different zone than Rijeka. These USDA maps for Europe are clearly wrong.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Actually as you can see, temperatures in Rijeka are warmer. Not colder than Madrid.

Also I'am comparing these two cities because they have somewhat similar temperatures. And Rijeka is in these USDA maps zone 8.

So it is not logical, for Madrid to be in different zone than Rijeka. These USDA maps for Europe are clearly wrong.

Why you everytime only quote me in what you are interested? I'm wanting to see that source which says that Rijeka only has 4 days with freezes... because the climate of Murcia for example is far warmer than Rijeka (not only winters, the average annual temperature is +3ºC than Rijeka) and the Murcia's city meteo station registers 5 freezes in a year. Let's take a look at your chart:

And then at Murcia's climate:

And you tell me that Rijeke has 4 days on average with freezes? Whatever...

Maybe Rijeke does not have those palm trees because a. it's too cold. b. the mayor of Rijeke never wanted to put those palm trees. Plant some of them and look by yourself if they grow or not. But why you still trying to convince me only "because you say it's 8 and not 9" this is senseless buddy...

Actually as you can see, temperatures in Rijeka are warmer. Not colder than Madrid.

Also I'am comparing these two cities because they have somewhat similar temperatures. And Rijeka is in these USDA maps zone 8.

So it is not logical, for Madrid to be in different zone than Rijeka. These USDA maps are clearly wrong.

Ok, all the hardiness maps (and even those ones made by universities like the one from the post #91) are wrong because you say it. Ok. I give you the reason, whatever for stop this senseless dispute.

Let's talk about palm trees. ¿ok? Well. Those Washingtonias grow in a city located at 820m altitude in the province of Alicante and quite far from the sea:

Maybe Rijeke can grow Washingtonias too... So please stop making disputes and challenging me (you've started saying that Seville is not Mediterranean while I proven you that it is, like in the other things) so can we stop it NOW? Please. Then, other users would enter here to talk about experiences with palm trees... But if you continue challenging me I have to answer you... or not? Well then. Please stop, ok? Thanks

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I quote myself of my post I've made before because with all of this discussion is lost between the unuseful posts. Let's please continue the thread;

For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions...

OK better to talk about experience. But to say, even Cyprus has a lot of climatic zones in diffferent elevations and the "Mediterranean" in general can be very different. My garden is approx. 120m above sea level.

Referring to your example, it would be interesting why a beauty like "D. leptocheilos" failed - which conditions do you have in your garden? The cold during the winter or a too sunny spot?

As I know some palms suffer because a lack of iron. E.g. "Ph. roebelenii" does it well in our garden in full sun with low maintenance. I have also planted a really tiny seedling "D. leptocheilos x decaryi" 2 years ago and it took the last winters very well. If you can get this hybrid I would try it, because it has a higher drought-tolerance of the decaryi part. It seems that Decaryi likes the Cypriot sunny and hot conditions. But little protection against the sun is needed for now.

More recommendations: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/45409-mediterranean-list-of-palms/#entry700432

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

I'm waiting for someone from Malta to enter this thread (for example @SouthSeaNate ) if someone knows how them enrol there... ?

I wish they could grow in my zone as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain:

My zone climate is very similar to Cyprus; is like a mixture between Paphos and Larnaca. In fact, here the last freeze was a long time ago; before 2000. And I wish they could grow like in Málaga (2 photos from above); look at how they look there:

They don't die, and they don't look really very bad... but also they don't grow as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain. Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested! @CYPALMS also I call you

Edited April 24, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Like I said before temperatures are obviously not a problem, but humidity.

Washingtonia filifera can grow. I'am speaking about robusta.

[Cikas]

pRoeZa* you are posting the same photos all the time. That is not necessary. You uploaded same Roystonea photos 4 times.

it's been some time now i am thinking about which species would be suitable to grow in the actual mediterranean climate and so i thought to start with a list and let other members add or remove according to their own experiences.

For the purpose of this topic i would consider a mediterranean climate to have the following characteristics

• Winters with max lows of -2C/26F (very rare events)
• Summers with max highs 45C/113F
• Humidity on average around 75% with the exception of daytime hot dry winds in the summer
• Moderate winds
• Number of sunny days around 220 per year

Now, i know that there are parts of the mediterranean which may vary somehow but i think that these characteristics should cover almost all areas.

In this list we can include of course all the common palms we see around everyday like Phoenix (canariensis, dactylifera, roebellini, theofrastii etc), Washingtonia, Syagrus, Archontophoenix (alexandrae and cunninghiama), Butia (capitata, eriospatha, odorata etc) Dypsis decaryi, Bismarckia nobilis, Howea forsteriana, Wodyetia bifurcata, Chamaerops, Trachycarpus fortunei, couple Livinstona species...

However, this is not the main aim of this topic. The aim is to put down a list of other than the aforementioned palms in order to make the possibilities of our climate visible and help also others to exploit it.

So here is a first list i have come up with so far:

1. Archontophoenix purpurea
2. Areca macrocalyx (red crownshaft)
3. Basselinia pancheri
4. Beccariophoenix alfredii
5. Bentinckia condapanna
6. Brahea armata/edulis
7. Burretiokentia vieillardii
8. Chamaedorea elegans/ernesti-augustii/metallica
9. Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookeri
10. Clinostigma ponapense/savoryanum
11. Dypsis albofarinosa
12. Dypsis baronii
13. Dypsis decipiens
14. Dypsis lanceolata
15. Dypsis leptocheilos
16. Euterpe edulis/oleracea
17. Hyophorbe lagenicaullis
18. Kentiopsis oliviformis/pyriformis
19. Lanonia dasyantha
20. Latania loddigesii
21. Licuala peltata var. peltata
22. Licuala ramsayi
23. Pinanga caesia
24. Roystonea oleracea/regia
25. Satakentia liukiuensis

The above list of course is not exhaustive but i think it contains some nice palms to be grown in the mediterranean.

Feel free to make corrections, additions and any comments that would help make it better.

George

In my opinion many palms on that list will not grow in mediterranean. At least not healthy.

Palms that can grow in most of Mediterranean are chamaerops humilis, all Trachycarpus, all Phoenix, Washingtonia, all Brahea, Jubea, Butia, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Thrinax, Archontophoenix, Parajubaea, Sabal species.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cikas

[Cikas]

Some Caryota, Rhapis species, some Arenga species, Nannorrhops ritchiana ( in less humid parts ), majority of Livistona species, Howea, Beccariophoenix alfredii, many Chamaedorea..

[Stelios]

I quote myself of my post I've made before because with all of this discussion is lost between the unuseful posts. Let's please continue the thread;

For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions...

OK better to talk about experience. But to say, even Cyprus has a lot of climatic zones in diffferent elevations and the "Mediterranean" in general can be very different. My garden is approx. 120m above sea level.

Referring to your example, it would be interesting why a beauty like "D. leptocheilos" failed - which conditions do you have in your garden? The cold during the winter or a too sunny spot?

As I know some palms suffer because a lack of iron. E.g. "Ph. roebelenii" does it well in our garden in full sun with low maintenance. I have also planted a really tiny seedling "D. leptocheilos x decaryi" 2 years ago and it took the last winters very well. If you can get this hybrid I would try it, because it has a higher drought-tolerance of the decaryi part. It seems that Decaryi likes the Cypriot sunny and hot conditions. But little protection against the sun is needed for now.

More recommendations: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/45409-mediterranean-list-of-palms/#entry700432

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

I'm waiting for someone from Malta to enter this thread (for example @SouthSeaNate ) if someone knows how them enrol there... ?

I wish they could grow in my zone as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain:

My zone climate is very similar to Cyprus; is like a mixture between Paphos and Larnaca. In fact, here the last freeze was a long time ago; before 2000. And I wish they could grow like in Málaga (2 photos from above); look at how they look there:

They don't die, and they don't look really very bad... but also they don't grow as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain. Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested! @CYPALMS also I call you

Generally here in Cyprus people don't really know a lot about palms. They usually plant mostly queens and washingtonias. Only the last few years the nurseries started to bring more varieties like Archontophoenix, Raveneas, Bismarckias, Spindles, Foxtails and Triangles. Still not a big variety like in other nurseries in Europe.

Sometimes some nurseries don't know what they are selling. Last Spring I bought 3 Roystonea regias from a nursery and the owner thought they were queens. They were in a bad condition, a bit yellow and were growing in very small pots when they were about 6-7 feet tall. I put them in bigger pots until they recovered. With a lot of water they became green again and they were slowly pushing the new spears during the winter. A few days ago I put them in the ground because their roots filled these big pots. I saw some royals in some private gardens here in Paphos with 2-3 feet of fat trunk and I can say they grew very quickly the last 2 years since I first saw them. But the biggest ones I saw in Cyprus are located in Limassol. I don't know if I can post photos but for our local members they are located in Agios Athanasios industrial zone on the sidewalk in front of a furniture shop. They have about 5-6 meters of trunk and they are really amazing.

I hope they will start to bring more palms here like they already grow them in similar Mediterranean climates worldwide. Like this we can share our experience with other PT members and make more locals here to grow more palms.

Stelios

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

In my opinion many palms on that list will not grow in mediterranean. At least not healthy.

Palms that can grow in most of Mediterranean are chamaerops humilis, all Trachycarpus, all Phoenix, Washingtonia, all Brahea, Jubea, Butia, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Thrinax, Archontophoenix, Parajubaea, Sabal species.

Some Caryota, Rhapis species, some Arenga species, Nannorrhops ritchiana ( in less humid parts ), majority of Livistona species, Howea, Beccariophoenix alfredii, many Chamaedorea..

In that list I would add Bismarckia Nobilis (I speak about my zone) and Raveneas. From that list the only palm which I've never seen is the Beccariophoenix Alfredii.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Could someone please do some ID to this photo?

Those ones are from a private garden in Alcoy. In this part of the city the altitude is about 600-650m... What species are those, are they very hardy? I don't recognise the palms from the right:

[Cikas]

Bismarckia Nobilis will grow in warmer parts of Mediterranean. Ravenea will grow only in less humid parts. Temperatures are not problem for Ravenea, but high winter humidity that some parts of Mediterranean has.

[Cikas]

Palms in that photo are Syagrus R, Butias, Phoenix dactylifera. All pretty hardy palms for Mediterranean.

[nick]

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

...Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested!

Yes there are a few. Not in my garden but very rare arround as Stelios mentioned. So they grow here in Cyprus.

Archontophoenix alexandrae is doing very well and is popular. It seems that this species can take more sun and heat than the other Archontophoenix. I try now A. purpurea in a half shade position. Bismarckias can also be seen, not very often. The problem is not the climate it is the matter of luck to find them in nurseries.

Edited April 25, 2015 by nick

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

...Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested!

Yes there are a few. Not in my garden but very rare arround as Stelios mentioned. So they grow here in Cyprus.

Archontophoenix alexandrae is doing very well and is popular. It seems that this species can take more sun and heat than the other Archontophoenix. I try now A. purpurea in a half shade position. Bismarckias can also be seen, not very often. The problem is not the climate it is the matter of luck to find them in nurseries.

Maybe is for the hot too?

From the photos i've put above, those one very big are on very mild climate zones; in addition that they are in the 11a zone, they also don't have very much extremes and it rains a bit more, about 550mm per year while here the average is about 400mm per year. Maybe the extremes are important too? Here every year arrives to 39ºC or maybe more... this year we arrived to 44ºC; the official weather station was showing 43ºC at 26 August. In Málaga for example something like this is very rare; when the hot winds blow in Málaga, they maybe arrive to 36ºC... but here when the winds of "Levante" blow during the summer... it catches at least 39ºC. This happens about 2-3 days a year, temps with 38-39ºC or more. Too hot for them, right? Here the same! Archontophoenix Alexandrae is being more and more popular. They grow very good and they are being planted in more places; it's a beautiful palm.

Edited April 25, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Phoenikakias]

As you can see. Rijeka is warmer than Madrid. It has higher average minimum temperatures than Madrid. So that means that Rijeka has less freezes than Madrid and higher minimal temperatures.

But Rijeka is USDA 8. So Madrid is USDA 8 too, or both Rijeka and Madrid are really USDA 9. In that case, that climate map of Europe is wrong.

Also some parts of Adriatic area are USDA 10. Some islands in Adriatic almost never have temperatures below freezing.

It is clear that humidity is very important. Dry winters are always better than humid ones for palms.

Cikas is right. Humidity is the Key for cool to cold winters! This why I can grow in Attica a Medemia argun (always marginally but still!)...

[Phoenikakias]

I quote myself of my post I've made before because with all of this discussion is lost between the unuseful posts. Let's please continue the thread;

For example: i have tried Dypsis leptocheilos in my place ..... and it did good for X time and failed under this conditions...

OK better to talk about experience. But to say, even Cyprus has a lot of climatic zones in diffferent elevations and the "Mediterranean" in general can be very different. My garden is approx. 120m above sea level.

Referring to your example, it would be interesting why a beauty like "D. leptocheilos" failed - which conditions do you have in your garden? The cold during the winter or a too sunny spot?

As I know some palms suffer because a lack of iron. E.g. "Ph. roebelenii" does it well in our garden in full sun with low maintenance. I have also planted a really tiny seedling "D. leptocheilos x decaryi" 2 years ago and it took the last winters very well. If you can get this hybrid I would try it, because it has a higher drought-tolerance of the decaryi part. It seems that Decaryi likes the Cypriot sunny and hot conditions. But little protection against the sun is needed for now.

More recommendations: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/45409-mediterranean-list-of-palms/#entry700432

Hey! Do you have any experiences with Roystoneas in Cyprus ?

I'm waiting for someone from Malta to enter this thread (for example @SouthSeaNate ) if someone knows how them enrol there... ?

I wish they could grow in my zone as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain:

My zone climate is very similar to Cyprus; is like a mixture between Paphos and Larnaca. In fact, here the last freeze was a long time ago; before 2000. And I wish they could grow like in Málaga (2 photos from above); look at how they look there:

They don't die, and they don't look really very bad... but also they don't grow as fast as in the southernmost coast of Spain. Instead, Raveneas, Archontophoenix, Bismarckias and Howeas grow good... Specially Archontophoenix and Bismarckias, both grow like champs; Bismarckia grows without any care, all I've seen in public everytime go bigger and they haven't got any leaf scorch. How they enrol in your climate, @Nick ? I'm really interested! @CYPALMS also I call you

Generally here in Cyprus people don't really know a lot about palms. They usually plant mostly queens and washingtonias. Only the last few years the nurseries started to bring more varieties like Archontophoenix, Raveneas, Bismarckias, Spindles, Foxtails and Triangles. Still not a big variety like in other nurseries in Europe.

Sometimes some nurseries don't know what they are selling. Last Spring I bought 3 Roystonea regias from a nursery and the owner thought they were queens. They were in a bad condition, a bit yellow and were growing in very small pots when they were about 6-7 feet tall. I put them in bigger pots until they recovered. With a lot of water they became green again and they were slowly pushing the new spears during the winter. A few days ago I put them in the ground because their roots filled these big pots. I saw some royals in some private gardens here in Paphos with 2-3 feet of fat trunk and I can say they grew very quickly the last 2 years since I first saw them. But the biggest ones I saw in Cyprus are located in Limassol. I don't know if I can post photos but for our local members they are located in Agios Athanasios industrial zone on the sidewalk in front of a furniture shop. They have about 5-6 meters of trunk and they are really amazing.

I hope they will start to bring more palms here like they already grow them in similar Mediterranean climates worldwide. Like this we can share our experience with other PT members and make more locals here to grow more palms.

Stelios

Spindles, Foxtails and Triangles, I would not consider them as ideal and generally suitable for most of the european mediterranean places. It is THE indication of how close to warmer margin of mediterranean stays Cyprus. I can not say the same for royals however. Even in Athens grows a healthy royal palm for many years.

[CYPALMS]

Stelios,

i believe you are reffering to these

They are found In front of Andreotti Furnishings right where you said. Pictures are taken on 23/07/2014, that is right in the middle of the summer, temps where 39 C that day around 11 o clock in the morning.

Especially in the second picture you can see that these were planted in crappy soil, probably some side road filling dirt with all sorts of debris in it. What's most interesting is that i searched around and didnt find any sign of irrigation equipment. This is also evident from the tightly arranged trunk rings at the upper trunk.

Nevertheless, those beauties seem to have taken care of themselves. Imagine if they were fertilized and water more reglarly how they would be.

George

[Stelios]

George,

These are the palms I was talking about! I also think that with better soil, more water and care, these beauties.could be even bigger. I saw them in January and they looked more happy with this year's winter rains. We need more of these planted in public or private gardens since they seem to grow without a lot of troubles. I can't wait to see mine to start to grow more quickly now that they are in the ground.

Stelios

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

I think I know why Roystonea grows here slower than in Málaga... because of the rain. May it be possible? They need very much water??

The Roystoneas i've seen had no signs of irrigation, and in 2014 didn't rain for 6 months or something like that (maybe a couple of days 2 insignificant raindrops... but not real rain). Is possible to be this the reason ? Although Syagrus grow enormous without irrigation, but Syagrus needs quite less water as far as I know, specially when they aren't youths anymore.

Which are hardier, Roystoneas or Howeas? Howeas grow very good here... although all i've seen are good irrigated. Thanks in advance!

Edited April 27, 2015 by pRoeZa*

[Cikas]

Howeas are much hardier.

[Phoenikakias]

Roystoneas are hardier imo, when entered the trunk forming stage. A Kentia in public place (with respective care) has few chances of survival on long term. It may well tolerate already as young potted plant nuch better cool, to cold temps, but they suffer in hot and warm night-temps under scorching sun. Besides a trunking outplanted Roystonea regia is supposed to survive a -2 C (OK with scorched leaves or complete defoliation) as such cold spell is perceived in the continental european mediterranean climate, while I pretty much doubt whether Kentia would have any chances.

[Ben in Norcal]

Roystoneas are hardier imo, when entered the trunk forming stage. A Kentia in public place (with respective care) has few chances of survival on long term. It may well tolerate already as young potted plant nuch better cool, to cold temps, but they suffer in hot and warm night-temps under scorching sun. Besides a trunking outplanted Roystonea regia is supposed to survive a -2 C (OK with scorched leaves or complete defoliation) as such cold spell is perceived in the continental european mediterranean climate, while I pretty much doubt whether Kentia would have any chances.

A Kentia of any size will easily survive -2c. I don't even think it would show any damage.

[Cikas]

Roystoneas are hardier imo, when entered the trunk forming stage. A Kentia in public place (with respective care) has few chances of survival on long term. It may well tolerate already as young potted plant nuch better cool, to cold temps, but they suffer in hot and warm night-temps under scorching sun. Besides a trunking outplanted Roystonea regia is supposed to survive a -2 C (OK with scorched leaves or complete defoliation) as such cold spell is perceived in the continental european mediterranean climate, while I pretty much doubt whether Kentia would have any chances.

I disagree. We have Howeas for years in Dalmatia. They grow in Italy too. I have howea in my garden.

And I did not see any roystonea in Dalmatia yet.

Howeas can take -4/5°C with damage., but survive.

But I agree that they hate hot weather and sun. Greece is very hot in summer, even hoter than Dalmatia, So summers are maybe too much for them in some parts of Greece.

Howea in Italy

Edited April 28, 2015 by Cikas

[Phoenikakias]

Roystoneas are hardier imo, when entered the trunk forming stage. A Kentia in public place (with respective care) has few chances of survival on long term. It may well tolerate already as young potted plant nuch better cool, to cold temps, but they suffer in hot and warm night-temps under scorching sun. Besides a trunking outplanted Roystonea regia is supposed to survive a -2 C (OK with scorched leaves or complete defoliation) as such cold spell is perceived in the continental european mediterranean climate, while I pretty much doubt whether Kentia would have any chances.

A Kentia of any size will easily survive -2c. I don't even think it would show any damage.

Roystoneas are hardier imo, when entered the trunk forming stage. A Kentia in public place (with respective care) has few chances of survival on long term. It may well tolerate already as young potted plant nuch better cool, to cold temps, but they suffer in hot and warm night-temps under scorching sun. Besides a trunking outplanted Roystonea regia is supposed to survive a -2 C (OK with scorched leaves or complete defoliation) as such cold spell is perceived in the continental european mediterranean climate, while I pretty much doubt whether Kentia would have any chances.

I disagree. We have Howeas for years in Dalmatia. They grow in Italy too. I have howea in my garden.

And I did not see any roystonea in Dalmatia yet.

Howeas can take -4/5°C with damage., but survive.

But I agree that they hate hot weather and sun. Greece is very hot in summer, even hoter than Dalmatia, So summers are maybe too much for them in some parts of Greece.

Howea in Italy

During the terrible cold spell of 2004 ( I recorded -2 C in my garden) a row of trunking Howeas in Glyfada (near the municipal swimming pool) were all anihilated without a single exception. I lost two in my garden, the one protected under the combined canopy of two huge pine trees. Glyfada has a milder and warmer climate than the one of my garden. Duration of cold spell is an equally important factor as the absolute min temp during the same cold spell. In southeastern and mediterranean Europe and I assume also the italian peninsula and southern France as well (with exception of some thermal enclaves), there is unfortunately no certainty at all that weather on same day will warm up soon and nicely after a temperature dip to negative (in C scale) values. Sorry to all Howea supporters, but I am an eyewitness of its limits regarding the cold tolerance.