Rocks, landscaping suggestions please?

[Bennz]

We've got some interesting limestone rocks on our farm. This outcropping is about 600m long and about 80-120m wide, covering around 6ha (15acres). It's been used for sheep and beef grazing for the last 150 years, and is one of the last parts of the farm we have not done any significant tree planting.

This spot is about 4kms from the beach, at 280m elevation. Climate is cooler than where my house is, winter mean figures being around 3-4C low, 13-14C high, summer about 10C higher (winter 37-39F low, 55-57F high, summer 55-57F low, 74-75F high). Rainfall is about 1300mm with wettest month (July) having about 120mm and driest month (September) around 80mm. Some frost occurs, but to be honest I don't know how much as when it's cold enough for frost I try to find somewhere warmer to be! For USDA zones it's probably cool-climate 10a, with a slight possibility of some frost hollows at the top end of 9b.

I have not planted many trees in the area. There are natural Cordyline australis, and I have planted a few Ficus columnaris, ErythrinaXsykesii, and Parajubaea sunkha, which gives an indication of climatic possibilities. As far as palms go, there are natural Rhopalostylis sapida trees at over twice this elevation in the area, so all the common temperate species like Archontophoenix, Howea etc should be fine. I quite like the idea of a few groves of Dypsis decipiens or Beccariophoenix alfredii in there somewhere...

Let your imaginations go wild, what would YOU do with this landscape?

Edited April 18, 2015 by Bennz

[LJG]

I look forward to reading what people suggest, but I just wanted to mention how awesome your property is. Beautiful.

[Pando]

Let your imaginations go wild, what would YOU do with this landscape?

Actually I wouldn't do a thing to it. It's just beautiful the way it is. Like something straight out of Lord of the Rings, especially the third and last pictures. Having a non-native palm tree in there just wouldn't be the same.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Pando

[Gonzer]

_{Leave well enough alone. That is some seriously beautiful land just the way it is.}

[pigafetta]

Awesome spot, I like the idea of a grove Dypsis decipiens would be the icing on the cake.

[BigFrond]

Nothing! I like palm, but it would mess up the scenery.

[awkonradi]

Regarding Pando's point about Lord of the Rings, I think any Hobbit would pocket seeds on her/his travels, and plant a discrete grove of any of the palm species already mentioned.

[Alicehunter2000]

Whoa! Thats cool looking! You probably see this landscape everywhere so it's nothing special to you....but to us...that place rocks! (Pun intended)....anyway....if you must do something Ceroloxyn, DD, Becariophoenix would all be nice....I would probably still space them out so as not to crowd the natural beauty of the place.

[doranakandawatta]

Nothing! I like palm, but it would mess up the scenery.

I agree,

You are so privileged having such a beautiful natural property. Only thing you can do if you want to plant palms or others is to move.

Enjoy every day and every light on these exceptional sceneries.

[Bennz]

Thanks for the positive comments. Very interesting responses, I'm surprised! I see this area as a damaged environment. The original dense rainforest has been progressively destroyed by 1000 years of human settlement. Our soils are too geologically new and fragile to have the forest cover removed. I think these rocks look naked and are calling out for some covering!

This picture was taken a few kms away. Even this small quantity of remnant vegetation would improve the look of my rocks. Note the same type of limestone rocks in this picture above and behind the two tree ferns.

I'm curious, does everyone still think the bare rocks look better than they would with some native vegetation plus additional palms?

[redbeard917]

So the last pic is remnant vegetation. Could we see what one of the areas you have replanted with palms and/or native vegetation looks like? I remember a few years ago reading that you were planning on installing a grove of Ceroxylons but squirrels chewed up most of your seedlings, or something. I'd been curious about how the project was coming since then. Personally, I don't agree that landscape would be ruined by some Howeas, D. decipiens etc and native tree ferns arching away from the rocks. Of course being from a hot climate I can't suggest any species, but I do remember seeing a forum members' garden in California that had cool-climate species and was truly stunning.

[Palmdude]

I would start by digging a small pond at the base of one of the large rocks that has comfortable space to chill out and stare at the rock, then I would make a nice waterfall cascading off the rock. You could also do a pond less waterfall. A few palms and of course some of your native tree ferns would be awesome but I would keep it sparsely planted as not to mask the natural beauty of the landscape. Make it look like they are coming up from behind the rocks as opposed to growing in front of them and blocking their view. Also,to be honest, I first imagined some cycads growing among the rocks before I thought about palms. It would look like a tropical oasis among an ancient landscape. If you could pull off some colorful broms mounted on the rocks, that would be cool too. Maybe there might also be some sort of hardy orchids you could mount as well. I would be looking into plants that I could grow in the cracks and crevices and right on top of the rocks as well. I would also make a path that follows the natural course that you find yourself taking as you walkthrough the area. I would then plant the front of the border along the pathway.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Palmdude

[Palmdude]

Get some color dripping off those rocks. Do things in sets of threes to keep your eye moving through the garden. Not too much color, just a touch here and there in the right places

[rprimbs]

I am probably better at giving advice than doing things myself, but your picture reminded me of back when I was working as a landscaper and we were landscaping "hills". The owner told us to plant the trees at the base of the hill. He said that gave a better look than if they were planted on top. So he would probably advise you to plant the palm trees below the rocky outcrop.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I can definitely see several groves of varying height Howea forsteriana strategically placed with some open areas preserved for lower growing companion plants. Those boulders are incredible and I would want to keep the nicest outcroppings viewable. Meandering paths would add mystery and lead your eyes to interesting focal points. You have an nearly empty palette but with beautiful topography and those rocks are so dramatic. Like Palmdude said above, a water element or two with moving water would be nice and would benefit area birds and wildlife.

Have fun with it. As breathtaking as your property is just as is, it's potential with palms and companion plants is incredible. If it were mine, I couldn't keep my hands off of it!

[pigafetta]

It does look beautiful as it is, but id imagine there is countless locations like this in NZ, but how many with only palms mixed in?

I say plant it out with D. decipens nicely spread out so you can still see the rocks and at different levels to get different palm heights and not only will it be an amazing landscape like the classic pic on the back of POM but it will also be a future D. decipiens seed bank for NZ.

Even better leave a little room so in ten years time you can plant out more to get even more different heights and stages of growth.

Edited April 19, 2015 by pigafetta

[redbeard917]

For some reason I'm envisioning some giant trees there, like redwoods or deodar cedar. I bet many cycads would grow there as well. Plus anything that grows in the garden of Troy from Tasmania.

[Astrophoenix]

Nice area but would be nicer if it looked like this.

[Mike in Nelson]

Thanks for the positive comments. Very interesting responses, I'm surprised! I see this area as a damaged environment. The original dense rainforest has been progressively destroyed by 1000 years of human settlement. Our soils are too geologically new and fragile to have the forest cover removed. I think these rocks look naked and are calling out for some covering!

This picture was taken a few kms away. Even this small quantity of remnant vegetation would improve the look of my rocks. Note the same type of limestone rocks in this picture above and behind the two tree ferns.

I'm curious, does everyone still think the bare rocks look better than they would with some native vegetation plus additional palms?

Quite true Ben. There's little in New Zealand resembling anything like its pre-human indigenous vegetation with the exception of the South Island's west coast. I'd go for the Howea/alfredii combo. They wouldn't mind the climate. Is it generally a windy spot?

[Pedro 65]

Ben, I see it "beautiful" as it is, I love big rocks on their own in the hills around our area and my kids love running around them , hiding, jumping off them etc, also I "way prefer" all your post 1 pics to post 10 which looks "uninviting".

You have a beautiful property with ocean views and tens of 1000s of plantation trees you have planted, leave this special looking spot how it is

Please post "more" pics of the above mentioned areas of your 600 plus acre property

All best Pete

[trioderob]

wow its so different looking then here -worlds a big place

[Jeff Searle]

Is this an area where you want to see a palm collection started? If so, you have a great start with all the rock, the different slopes and elevation. If so...I would consider the most natural "trail" that goes from the bottom up to the top that zig-zags through. I would then spray a thin (4' wide) trail with round up and have this as the designated pathway from bottom up to the top. You could line this trail with smaller rocks or leave as is. Then, I would choose a couple of choice spots to make a sitting area with a good view looking out. Then....let the planting begin!

[NorthFlpalmguy]

It's very pretty as it sits.... but palms make anything better! I like the idea of mixing color and specimen palms. That place is so nice that I cannot even see any weeds in the grass.

[Ken Johnson]

I have an idea that is outside the box. Remove the rocks. Those rocks would make great building material for walls and pathways for a new garden.

When you mention how humans have ruined the natural areas yet humans here think it looks natural now I get confused. When I think that humans have massacred the place already then I think "let's do it some more but let's really leave a notice that humans have been here with art and fanciful plants".

[buffy]

Let your imaginations go wild, what would YOU do with this landscape?

I would simply pee myself due to the remarkable beauty.

[richnorm]

Magical spot which I would leave to the livestock. Perhaps get a very few more cabbage trees protected for regeneration but forget palms. Too windy and way too much work to keep watered over summer! Time I visited you again, I bet all those trees have grown!

cheers R

[WestCoastGal]

I have to agree with those above that the natural beauty of the area speaks for itself. Personally I wouldn't mess with it much and keep it as natural in appearance as possible. For some reason I'm not really seeing small groves of palms there.

What do you plan to use the area for would be my first question to you? Horseback riding, picnicing, hiking? I like the grove of trees down by the pond and see that as a nice area for providing some shade from the sun you could go to. It's clustered and looks natural in the landscape. Maybe expand shade around that area with similar trees. If I were to plant trees of some kind elsewhere though I actually like the look of your cabbage palms (C. australis) silhouetted against the sky among the rock outcroppings. Rugged but architectual. I'd keep them nestled near the rock base where ground water tends to be more plentiful in valley areas. Do they develop a long tap root?

Parts of the Bay Area here have outcroppings of tilted sediments (serpentine and volcanic rock for example) that are interesting to look in the landscaping among the grassy hills. Maybe it's not the time of the season there but I don't really see any wildflowers among the grass. Here you'll find California poppies and such in the grassier areas and in more sandier areas near the coast colorful iceplant among the rocks. I'd suggest additions of clusters of shrubby, evergreen, colorful leucadendron but they like a more acid soil (and phosporus kills them) than what I'm guessing you have but I could be wrong thinking your more alkaline.

Apart from a bench top of stone slab or wood stretched across two rocky areas to sit on and admire the view, and maybe a small rustic wooden fence for hitching horses to if you have them down by the pond area (or metal rings anchored into some of the rock possibly for the same purpose), I'd leave the area pretty much as is.

[Pando]

The image on the right is a landscape scene from Hobbit. This is uncanny.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I see the natural beauty in what is there. I also see the potential. I would like to think that most of us here that are voting for leaving "as is" would likely be awestruck by the same property filled with gorgeous palms and colorful companion plants if that's what the pictures already showed. I owned a 21 acre plot of land in the 1990s the was very similar with monstrous rock outcroppings, native oak groves, streams, hillsides, and a large pond/small lake with bass and bluegill fish aplenty in San Martin, CA I saw the potential for greatness and started planting away with bamboo, several palm species, eucalyptus, hybrid cottonwood by the pond, and lots of other stuff. It was really satisfying watching everything mature over the years and I miss having all that land now. Some of the palms were growing right out of the pond water at its edge. Just because something is beautiful in its current state doesn't mean it can't become more beautiful...even breathtaking.

[Pedro 65]

Another "Idea" Ben is a simple warm cozy "unpowered " Hut with bedroom, bathroom, "simple kitchen" and an expansive verandah/deck, deckchairs, bbq etc.

Why.. Coz "Rich" Japanese are looking for simple , outback, in the nature, getaway accom where they cant "hook in" to computer, television, etc etc and holiday where they can totally "switch off" and go to bed "early" and wake up "early".

They would "love" whacking golf balls over the lake I bet

Pete

[Ken Johnson]

It's interesting the so many people look at this as a natural place when it is clearly a cow pasture which has replaced nature.

[Pip]

It's interesting the so many people look at this as a natural place when it is clearly a cow pasture which has replaced nature.

I have to agree with Ken. There are so many areas particularly around where I live that have a very similar degraded look. There is nothing wrong with continuing the landscape's evolution into something surprising and unexpected.

I like the idea of using cool tolerant palms mixed with ferns and other interesting textural under plantings. I'd also use a few well placed large trees with an architectural form such as Araucaria.

[Pando]

Another thing to consider is how the property looks throughout the year. It certainly looks gorgeous in the pictures with those open, rolling green hills, but does it look barren and cold with dead grass during winter? That would be a reason to plant trees and landscape the way you want to make it inviting year-round.

[Alicehunter2000]

What would have been the original native vegetation? giant tree ferns?

[Peter Pacific]

Gorgeous land. Landscaping it properly would be absolutely stunning! Overplant some sides of the pond and leave it open on others. Go to the top of a hill and imagine your land, imagine the trees, the open sunny areas, exposed rock. As you are taking in your property, look for areas that already look like natural paths from one point to another. Exploit those areas. Stick an umbrella somewhere and watch the sun cross your property, where would you want the sun to illuminate your palms and native plants? If tree ferns are endemic to that area, mass plant large areas of tree ferns, a nod to the local vegetation. Create destinations on your property for different reasons...one to take in the scenery, another to share a favorite drink or smoke your favorite tobacco, yet another to share with a loved one. Push boundaries, challenge logic, but most of all, enjoy that magnificent piece of real estate which is in your hands to develop.

Start today!!

Good Luck and please keep us in pictures!

Peter

[Bennz]

Thanks for all the great replies. I had no idea this would provoke so much discussion.

I just repeat myself, this is farm land that originally was covered in dense evergreen broadleaf and podocarp rainforest. Now most of the original cover is gone in this area, due to 1000 years of human interference and then the introduction of sheep farming by the early European settlers from about 1850 onwards. Ethically I feel it is a blank canvas, sure it would be nice to let the original forest return but the ecology is so altered that any attempt at restoring pre-human ecology would fail due to the introduced species now naturalised. Also fossil records show the vegetation of this area was at one time dominated by grassland and Casuarina, Acacia and Eucalyptus, so much more like what we now think of as Australian ecology rather than the dense rainforest that has dominated since the last ice age.

I have to make a living off the farm as well as re-forest it, so the focus is on productive tree species. Native understorey comes back by itself. Here are a few pictures of my Eucalyptus forests (aimed at timber production) with native rainforest re-establishing. Any area that is not easily accessible for timber extraction is going into permanent forest, with lots of palms in the mix. Only just getting started on this stage. I'm throwing a lot of palm seed into moist gullies and a lot of seedlings are coming up by themselves. Mainly Rhopalostylis and Archontophoenix.

This is natural forest about 40kms away, I'm sure I could merge this into my commercial forests...

[Bennz]

I really like banyan trees, here's my largest Ficus columnaris (about 17 years old).

I like the idea of planting these things on the rocks, all the aerial roots all over the rocks one day for the "abandoned temple in the rainforest" look!

Ficus columnaris on rocks;

Another banyan half way up this 8m rock face;

And to end on something like palm related, here's a view from the house. Needs more palms, but the idea is coming along.

[Pedro 65]

I really like banyan trees, here's my largest Ficus columnaris (about 17 years old).

I like the idea of planting these things on the rocks, all the aerial roots all over the rocks one day for the "abandoned temple in the rainforest" look!

Ficus columnaris on rocks;

Another banyan half way up this 8m rock face;

Great pics Ben, are your kids "keen" to see this area planted?

I like the Fig Idea though, 4get about the palms

Pete

[Peter Pacific]

What a great spot. You still have that great view and your far enough from the surf that your garden is not getting burned by the salt spray.

Perfect.

[Josh76]

Do you give supplemental water to those figs in the rocks Ben? Or do the roots get down into the rocks?