Sabal miamiensis & Sabal etonia

[PalmatierMeg]

Some palm experts think Sabal miamiensis (from southern FL but now exctinct in the wild) should be combined with S. etonia (north Central FL). I have both: a miamiensis I received as a tiny seedling in 2008 and an etonia I germinated in 2009). Even though they are close in age they are worlds apart in size and vigor. S. etonia simply does not thrive here in Cape Coral. I have two: this small one flowering for the first time and one on my garden lot that teeters on the brink of death.

I took these photos this morning of my S. miamiensis, thriving, bluish and deeply costapalmate, then my little etonia, green with flatter leaves. I don't see them as the same species. Do you?

[Cindy Adair]

Hi Meg! I have no opinion on your sabal question but just wanted to say hi! Thinking about this time last year when we had recently visited Cuba!

My Dypsis ' Malagasy' is still growing well in Puerto Rico in probably too much shade.

Sorry for interrupting your thread and I'll let others answer your question. Very nicely grown palms whatever they are called!

[Alberto]

Sabal etonia growing in my garden with 3 order branches

[Yunder Wækraus]

Can someone point me toward literature on these two Sabal species?

[Brad Mondel]

Etonia:

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_etonia

Miamiensis: http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_miamiensis

[Eric in Orlando]

I have had similar experience. Sabal miamiensis has grown faster and more robust that S. etonia. Sabal etionia grows well here but is slow.

I have seen all the arguments that S. miamiensis is and isn't a valid species. But I have also seen thoughts that it may be a hybrid between S. etonia and S. palmetto.

[Brad-Tampa]

Check out the USF Florida Plant Atlas for their accepted Florida Sabal species and confirmed distribution. Just search Sabal:

http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=1119

They accept Scott Zona's description as: Sabal x miamiensis. (S.etonia X S.palmetto)

The distribution for S. etonia is often well drained xyric sand hill habitat. Like in this location off US 98 east of Sebring:

[Yunder Wækraus]

Etonia:

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_etonia

Miamiensis: http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_miamiensis

Thanks. Do DNA studies support the distinction?

[Vinc]

Let's start the discussion about S. miamiensis again!

At the beginn of August I got some fresh seeds of the S. miamiensis from Meg which germinated verry well (~90 %), thanks again Meg!

I noticed that the seeds were 5.5 - 7 mm in diameter. According to S. Zona the seeds of S. miamiensis are much bigger (10.2 - 11 mm).

( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000324 )

Therefore the seed size of the Sabal from Meg is more similar to the typical seed size of S. palmetto (5.4 - 9.7) or S. etonia (6.4 - 9.9 mm)

( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=200027118 )

( http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000322 )

I have no idea how useful seed sizes are to distinguish Sabal species from each other. What do you think?

Does anybody know an S. miamiensis individual which really produce large seeds (10 - 11 mm) as described by S. Zona?

It seems that there are no clear identification characteristics to distinguish S. miamiensis from S. etonia or S. palmetto, when we assume that seed size can vary in between the same species (depending on other factors) and when it is possible that also S. etonia can sometimes have inflorescens with 3 orders of branching (like the one of Alberto).

Alberto, what makes you sure that your Sabal is S. etonia? Due to S. Zona 1987, 2 orders of branching is a distinctiv feature of S. etonia...

As already mentioned S. miamiensis is not further accepted by Kew as a species and is listed as a synonym of S. etonia.

Probabyl it is really just a hybrid between S. palmetto and S. etonia? Or it is a distinct species AND beside there are also many Hybrids between S. etonia and S. palmetto existing which are wrongly belived to be S. miamiensis (Probably the case with the plant from Meg).

Also if the plant from Meg would be no real S. miamiensis, I am nevertheless very happy to own seedling of this beautiful palm.

Vincent

[Vinc]

By the way: Meg, your Sabal etonia looks like a typical Sabal minor for me:

The leaves are not at all costapalmat, they are very flat and splited into half in the middle to the hastula.

Also the flowers are very upright and not at all bushy and compact, like the ones of a typical Sabal minor.

What do others think?

[PalmatierMeg]

By the way: Meg, your Sabal etonia looks like a typical Sabal minor for me:

The leaves are not at all costapalmat, they are very flat and splited into half in the middle to the hastula.

Also the flowers are very upright and not at all bushy and compact, like the ones of a typical Sabal minor.

What do others think?

I can't say if you are correct as Sabals are generally hard to tell apart - at least for me as I am visually impaired. However, the palm I photographed is quite green and lacks blue tones S. minor usually have. My S. minor planted from seeds I germinated in 2008/2009 is much larger and more robust than this palm. Also, a possible S. etonia I planted on a berm at the end of my canal is barely alive while a S. minor is much larger..