Growing Bismarck! What do I do now??

[s9601694]

I bought a few Bismarck seeds in the spring and planted them in 18" white drainage pipe sections.

Two of them have sprouted and are growing fast. The first one has a leaf that is about 18" long and just developed a second leaf. The second one is 6" long.

I just picked up the big one to see if I saw roots at the bottom of the pipe and I'm doing so I broke off a little piece of root that had grown out of the pipe. What do I do? Replant them in larger pots? (What size??) and plant them in spring or do I plant them in their permanent locations and tent them with a heat source in winter ( I am in Conroe TX 9b)

Thanks!!

[s9601694]

Pictures:

[s9601694]

[Kostas]

Plant them in the ground already!!!

[Ben in Norcal]

I wouldn't plant them at that size, in that location...I suspect they will be somewhat marginal there. I'd pot up and grow out to at least a 5g, and preferably a 15.

[richnorm]

I would plant one or two right now and hedge your bets. You must me extremely careful not to damage the roots . The plant with the broken root will most likely die I'm afraid. Good luck. Richard

[Kostas]

They are very slow and sensitive in pots compared to the ground. The only one of mine that lived was the one I ground planted. They hate winter when potted while in the ground they don't care much. 9b is pretty acceptable and not even a seedling would be damaged much. Protecting is also very easy at this size

When I ground planted mine in the middle of winter, it didn't even have a leaf, it was just a long 25cm cotyledonary petiole with a root tip that had rotted and had just regenerated a new fat root tip which was growing through the rotten one.
A month after ground planting. Still no leaf showing above the ground


By June, it got its first one out, 9months after germination!


And now, almost 7years after germination


All that I tried to grow in pots till divided leaf size, have long died... The siblings of my ground planted one all perished in pots during the winter I ground planted that one in the ground, I am glad I took the chance, barerooted it and planted it. Otherwise it would too be dead

As Rich said, they are very root sensitive. A broken root can bring them on death's door without it making any sense. What worked for me was barerooting using water to wash the soil away slowly. In your setup, something you could do is plant them with the tube, as they are, and revisit them a year of two later to carefully slide it up and away with the help of water, or cut it from the side

[richnorm]

That's how I planted mine from drain pipes. Plenty of water helps. Bury the pipe then gently lift it away.

[Jeff Searle]

I don't know what others do around the world, but I can tell you how we grow them here in the nursery. And I have germinated thousands over the years. We start them in a deep pot ( similar to what you used ), but it's a nursery pot, 4"x4" and approx. 12-14" tall. I set the seed just under the surface of the soil and set the pots out in full sun. After several leaves, then their transplanted into a 3 gallon pot. And I'm quite sure, many roots are damaged along the way. But never seem to see any of them die later on. The point I guess I'm trying to make is, don't worry about a small root at the bottom getting broken , it's not going to die. And my opinion would be to wait until you have more leaves and a better root system before transplanting them. Do keep us posted.

[trioderob]

what is the contraption that has been built around this Bizzy ?...................

I was under the impression that Greece gets hot - if so that whole thing will be extremely too small allow normal growth

for example I think san diego is about the same climate as yours and my bizzie went from 5 gallon to 25 feet tall and 27 inches across the base in 6 years

Edited August 17, 2015 by trioderob

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I would raise the milk crate, that your seedling tubes are in, off of the ground so that the roots air-prune themselves as they exit the tube bottom. Leave them in those tubes until you have several leaves then transplant into the ground or larger pot. This will give you a denser root system and keep the roots together so you don't break them when transplanting.

[s9601694]

Wow great information everyone!

I guess I'll be digging two (deep) holes this week and hope that they survive.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[Kostas]

Rob,

The metal construction is 1,5m high and 1,5m wide and is there to keep the walkways open. I am truly hoping this Bismarckia will get huge and as soon as it reaches a 20-25" trunk, I will remove everything and widen its patio.

I am in a warm and wet part of Greece, so it should get huge soon. It currently is only 10" wide and its leafs reach 3m tall already and upsizing fast

[s9601694]

Rob,

The metal construction is 1,5m high and 1,5m wide and is there to keep the walkways open. I am truly hoping this Bismarckia will get huge and as soon as it reaches a 20-25" trunk, I will remove everything and widen its patio.

I am in a warm and wet part of Greece, so it should get huge soon. It currently is only 10" wide and its leafs reach 3m tall already and upsizing fast

it looks amazing!

[Jeff Searle]

Wow great information everyone!

I guess I'll be digging two (deep) holes this week and hope that they survive.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Why would you be in such a hurry? Their just a seedling.

[richnorm]

Jeff, it's a climate thing. In places with cool winters Bizzies are super sensitive to root disturbance. A professional grower once told me he lost 50% on each repotting! In my conditions they grow much better planted out at the strap leaf stage. But it is nothing like Texas here!

[s9601694]

Wow great information everyone!

I guess I'll be digging two (deep) holes this week and hope that they survive.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Why would you be in such a hurry? Their just a seedling.

I am not in much of a hurry i just want to make sure they live and from what i read it seemed that the consensus was to plant them in the ground..

[Ben in Norcal]

Wow great information everyone!

I guess I'll be digging two (deep) holes this week and hope that they survive.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Why would you be in such a hurry? Their just a seedling.

I am not in much of a hurry i just want to make sure they live and from what i read it seemed that the consensus was to plant them in the ground..

I do not agree you should plant it in the ground. I am with Jeff, you should pot it up. I would be very surprised if it survived it's first winter in ground at that size, in a marginal climate such as yours (and mine.)

[JT in Japan]

I'm in a similar situation, so this is a valuable post. I've got two from seed, and I probably over-potted both of them last year because I didn't want to repot and risk disturbing the roots. These photos are two years since sprouting, and this one is finally taking off. I was thinking of waiting till next spring to put it in the ground (and keep a second, smaller one in the pot), but with the comments above, think maybe I should do it now. Is September taking a risk with a new planting? That pot is 15-20L in size.

Thanks,

JT

[s9601694]

Wow great information everyone!

I guess I'll be digging two (deep) holes this week and hope that they survive.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Why would you be in such a hurry? Their just a seedling.

I am not in much of a hurry i just want to make sure they live and from what i read it seemed that the consensus was to plant them in the ground..

I do not agree you should plant it in the ground. I am with Jeff, you should pot it up. I would be very surprised if it survived it's first winter in ground at that size, in a marginal climate such as yours (and mine.)

What size pot should i report them into in your opinion?

Thanks!

[Ben in Norcal]

If it were me, I'd put it in a 5g, which should be plenty of room for at least a couple of years I should think.

But someone like Jeff would be a much better person to opine!

[Kris]

Kostas, Nice growth.

even the one planted in our garden must be as old as yours.must post a thread on its development..soon.

the leaves of the one here is bigger and fronds longer than one seen in your still.May be it is due to tropical

climate.and i have stopped watering and giving fertz to it.Since the trunk is becoming massive.

love,

kris.

[Jeff Searle]

Here, it's common to go from a tall tube pot like I mentioned and go to a 3 gallon. Even a 5 gallon pot is fine. Just here in south Florida 5 gallons are rarely used. And before you or anyone else ask...I realize a 3 gallon is not as tall as the tube pot. But when the Bismarckia is removed, several inches at the top of soil is knocked off and therefore they fit easily into a 3 gallon if so desire. The risk are too high( for something to happen)and there's no advantage to planting these straight from a one or two leaf seedling stage.

[Stelios]

Very interesting topic with good information. I should have checked before I made my own experiments. I bought some bismarckia seeds from RPS. I used 1.5L empty bottles of water instead of pots so they can send the roots more deep. 2 seeds germinated and very quickly the roots reached the bottom of the bottles. Both they have 1 leaf. I just transplanted both of them but during this attempt the soil fell off the roots. The soil was moist and soft so no roots were damaged. I planted them very careful in bigger containers and so far so good. I killed many seed grown palms so it wouldn't be the first time. If they will not survive I have 2 already bigger planted in the ground which I bought from a nursery. After this experience I should have put the seeds in much bigger pots and the let them grow there for sometime.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Stelios

[Kostas]

The tropical climate surely gives you more growing months than I have and the high heat you get better suits Bismarckia's heat requirements for fast growth. My Bismarckia does not get to see above 35C except for a few days a year, and now that everything has grown around it and filled in, the concrete doesn't heat much, so it remains cooler. The metal construction that keeps the leafs from closing the pathway, bunches up the leafs and much of the photosynthetic surface is lost, shaded from the newer leafs and not contributing much to the palm. I am actually tempted to remove the construction already and leave the Bismarckia spread and grow faster. Will see... I wish to plant a few more this fall or next year

Best of luck with the Bismarckia Stelios!

[Peter Pacific]

s960..., These are really great palms and even though they're common in Florida, and even on the Guatemalan coast, I am not sure I would plant your little guy in the ground just yet. They love the heat and the sun but I'm not so sure about zone 9b.

Kostas, I have a large Bismarckia planted probably 10 ago and its base is really fat. It's a great device you have for lifting the leaves and keeping the area free for passersby but it's the brick lined opening and patio surrounding the base which may be in jeopardy in a few years. Mine is so tall now that I can't even reach the leaves.

Peter

[Kostas]

Thanks for the heads up Peter! I have seen how massive the trunk can get while in Florida and its patio it's certainly gonna get too tight soon. I will widen it as soon as it gets a little fatter than it is, it was just a temporary job I knew would need widening in the future. I would actually be quite happy to get rid of most of the paved area and only keep some walkways. Well, relatively soon I hope...

My Washingtonia robusta(Sonora) and a huge Musa 'Kandrian' with a 6+m tall pseadostem have already broken their patios and I will be widening them this fall

[Stelios]

The tropical climate surely gives you more growing months than I have and the high heat you get better suits Bismarckia's heat requirements for fast growth. My Bismarckia does not get to see above 35C except for a few days a year, and now that everything has grown around it and filled in, the concrete doesn't heat much, so it remains cooler. The metal construction that keeps the leafs from closing the pathway, bunches up the leafs and much of the photosynthetic surface is lost, shaded from the newer leafs and not contributing much to the palm. I am actually tempted to remove the construction already and leave the Bismarckia spread and grow faster. Will see... I wish to plant a few more this fall or next year

Best of luck with the Bismarckia Stelios!

Thanks Kostas. I can't wait to see my bismarckias grow to the size of your palm in a few years.

[s9601694]

Ok I reported them into 5 gallon buckets. It worked really well with the white pipe. I took the bottom mesh off placed the pipe in the bucket and tapped it. The soil column came loose really easy and I managed to minimize any disturbance to the roots. After watering one of the seeds floated up though. I hope that doesn't hurt the plant ?!

[s9601694]

Update on my Bismarcks!

 

they both survived the transplant to the 5G buckets and have grown  nicely. As much as I want to plant them in the yard I think it might be wiser to let them grow out in the buckets for another year. I've brought the buckets in a few times this winter during frosty nights but I've also forgotton to do so a few times. It didn't seem to affect them. 

[s9601694]

Some pictures:

 

 

 

[Hammer]

2 hours ago, s9601694 said:

Some pictures:

 

 

 

Is it safe to assume you have drilled several holes in the bottom 9f those buckets?

[topwater]

I think you were smart to keep them potted, they look good.  This area can get pretty nippy, I'd be reluctant to put them in the ground until they have a little more size to them.  Do you see many growing in your area?  They're getting more common around Galveston, most look good. Good luck, keep us posted. 

[s9601694]

2 hours ago, Hammer said:

Is it safe to assume you have drilled several holes in the bottom 9f those buckets?

Yes sir!

[s9601694]

2 hours ago, topwater said:

I think you were smart to keep them potted, they look good.  This area can get pretty nippy, I'd be reluctant to put them in the ground until they have a little more size to them.  Do you see many growing in your area?  They're getting more common around Galveston, most look good. Good luck, keep us posted. 

No i hardly see them. I think i might have seen one in the Woodlands. Once I'm ready to plant I'll have to find a spot that gets lots of sun and is somewhat sheltered from wind etc. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I planted two this year that will be protected for a few years but will eventually die up here.  The high pine canopy near the woodlands, spring or humble would support a Bismark as it would shelter it enough from the once a decade ice and snow.

[topwater]

I'm really curious how far north Bismarckia will be able to grow through Houston.  I hope they are zone 9 hardy because I have more than a few. 

[Kris]

Nice visuals and here we usually allow the palm to fill the roots in whatever sized pots or containers they are in and on the planting day we just rip open the container,if they don't glide smoothly out of their containers even after watering the root region.

 

Love,

kris.

 

[Kris]

Here is a link to the Bismarckia growing at our residence..

Love,

kris.

 

[s9601694]

10 hours ago, topwater said:

I'm really curious how far north Bismarckia will be able to grow through Houston.  I hope they are zone 9 hardy because I have more than a few. 

How big are  yours? are they planted in the ground?