ID these Palm Seeds

[Mohsen]

Hi All

Today I could find 2 hours and had a walk in Royal Sydney Botanical Garden ( as Colin and Daryl suggested) ...It was great experience but I needed more time as I am sure I missed many palms...I will try to post pictures I took ( should be more than 40)

I also took some seeds from ground ...I could tell the kind of some of them but then I lost the track ...please see below picture and help me to ID them .. I already have ID for number 1,2 ,3 and 9 ( I think not 100% sure) ...please let me know if it is possible to germinate these as some of them are very green and I am not sure the are viable to be germinated or not , specially the  Hedyscepe canterburyana ( Umbrella Palm- Big Mountain Palm), I read they are very difficult for germination and I am not even sure they are ready ...please let me have your comments :

                    1-  Pinanga coronate

                                 2- Heterospathe longipes (Solitary Palm)

3-      Hedyscepe canterburyana ( Umbrella Palm- Big Mountain Palm)

9-      Chamaedorea linearis ( Whale tail palm)

Also one of them should be “Lytocaryum weddellianum” and I am not too sure about the rest

 

 

 

 

[Mohsen]

Any one could identify any of above seeds? Also any help how can I germinate them specially umbrella Palm seeds ?

[Mohsen]

any comments what are they? should I skin the seeds?

[gyuseppe]

the seeds of green color definitely are not mature

[Mohsen]

the seeds of green color definitely are not mature

thanks for the reply ... But I picked them from ground even the green ones ! So there is no luck with umbrella Palm seeds?

[Pal Meir]

There are some problems concerning your photo what explains that you didn’t get the expected feedback:
(1) At least the pics #3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9 are pics of mostly immature fruits and not of the seeds.
(2) There is no scale: What is the size of the fruits/seeds?
(3) Seeds like #1, 2, and 6 could be anything; it is necessary to have a better resolution of your photo. And it is not clear if the colour is the colour of the seed or the remnants of the fruit.
(4) If #9 is a fruit of Ch. linearis it is immature; it should be 1-2.5 cm in diameter, the fruit only 7-10 x 8-14 mm (Hodel 1992).
(5) I can’t see any ripe fruit (or seed) of a Lytocaryum.; #7 could be very immature fruits (???).
(6) It would be helpful if you could post photos and/or a name list of the palms you visited.

[Trava]

Seeds on number 4 could be Hedyscepe canterburyana.

I had good germination with californian seeds,I work by recepie which I found on RPS

..very easy to germinate and need up to 6 months to sprout.
Having Lord Howe Island off the coast a few hundred miles east of where I live, Port Macquarie, germination would seem easy and effortless to achieve. Well it was. Afew simple rules should be followed. Soaking the seeds for a period of time wasnt necessary, but what was most important was maintaining temperature at no more than 25c and no less than 15c, this is the range that produced 100% germination.The medium you use during germination and potting up must have excellent drainage. I used cleaned course river sand only

I use perlit and course river sand.

[Mohsen]

Thanks Pal and Trava

I will try to take a new pic with put a coin for scale

[richnorm]

Hedyscepe are easy if ripe and fresh.  Green seeds can sometimes give good results but i would always go for ripe fruit.

[Pal Meir]

If you place the seeds on a paper with a grid (e.g. 5 mm) it would be easier to imagine the real size. Here an example with 2 Lytocaryum seeds:

[Mohsen]

I hope below picture with some scales could  help to ID them : I also peeled the number 6 7 and 8 in on of the  picture . so far I could track : ( but not 100% sure though) :

            9 -  Pinanga coronate

                                 7- Heterospathe longipes (Solitary Palm)

4-      Hedyscepe canterburyana ( Umbrella Palm- Big Mountain Palm)

1-      Chamaedorea linearis ( Whale tail palm)

Thanks again for any comments

Edited September 27, 2015 by Mohsen

[Pal Meir]

Hi Mohsen, these photos are much better .

As I guessed before #3 may be Lytocaryum weddellianum (Syagrus weddelliana). When you remove the pulp the seed should look like a small coconut (cf. my photo above).

But #1 can’t be Chamaedorea linearis. Try to remove the pulp so we can see the shape of the seed. – Here a photo from Hodel (1992) Chamaedorea Palms, p. 55:

[Pal Meir]

Oh, I have to correct myself: #1 is Ch. linearis, but NOT the fruit, it is the primary spathe of the inflorescence! Cf. this photo from Palmpedia:

[Pal Meir]

If the seed of #3 does not look like a coconut, then #5 may be immature fruits of Lytocaryum weddellianum; the size (ca. 2 cm) would fit.

[Mohsen]

Oh, I have to correct myself: #1 is Ch. linearis, but NOT the fruit, it is the primary spathe of the inflorescence! Cf. this photo from Palmpedia:

thank Pal

so this is not seed at all

[Mohsen]

How about 2-  5- 6 - 7 - 8 ? any idea?

[Pal Meir]

Did you remove the pulp from #3? Is it a miniature coconut?

Try to remove the pulp from the other fruits. If you can’t it is a sign that the fruits are immature. But with pulp (and maybe even without) it is very hard to decide if the seeds don’t have a very characteristic shape.

[Mohsen]

Did you remove the pulp from #3? Is it a miniature coconut?

Try to remove the pulp from the other fruits. If you can’t it is a sign that the fruits are immature. But with pulp (and maybe even without) it is very hard to decide if the seeds don’t have a very characteristic shape.

Hi Pal

I tried to remove the pulp but both were rotten inside  so there is no number 3 anymore...

[Pal Meir]

This #3 doesn’t look like Lytocaryum. So remains only #5 for a Lyto, but a ripe fruit has to be split at the top and to be yellow or brown …

And have you tried to remove the pulp of #2 and #4? These fruits look at least mature … And if you want to plant them you have to remove the pulp in any case.

[Mohsen]

This #3 doesn’t look like Lytocaryum. So remains only #5 for a Lyto, but a ripe fruit has to be split at the top and to be yellow or brown …

And have you tried to remove the pulp of #2 and #4? These fruits look at least mature … And if you want to plant them you have to remove the pulp in any case.

I have removed pulp from number 2 ( only one survived) and number 4 ....they had a very thin layer of pulp ,,,number 4 I am almost sure is Hedyscepe canterburyana

[Pal Meir]

This #3 doesn’t look like Lytocaryum. So remains only #5 for a Lyto, but a ripe fruit has to be split at the top and to be yellow or brown …

And have you tried to remove the pulp of #2 and #4? These fruits look at least mature … And if you want to plant them you have to remove the pulp in any case.

I have removed pulp from number 2 ( only one survived) and number 4 ....they had a very thin layer of pulp ,,,number 4 I am almost sure is Hedyscepe canterburyana

Hmm, to me #2 looks more like a Hedyscepe canterburyana than #4. I have attached a photo from Palmpedia, showing the fruits of a tree growing on Mt. Gower:

[Pal Meir]

Judging only from the size and texture #4 could be immature (?) fruits of Normanbya, but also anything else …

[richnorm]

4 Looks right for Hedyscepe

[Mohsen]

I took 4 just below few Hedyscepe , see attached pics:

[Pal Meir]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

[Mohsen]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

I have created a new post and attached all my photos from Sydney Royal Botanical Gardens

[Pal Meir]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

I have created a new post and attached all my photos from Sydney Royal Botanical Gardens

Now it is possible to determine #5 as immature  fruits of Lytocaryum weddellianum; here your photo made a little bit brighter:

[Mohsen]

Thanks Pal

BTW How easy will Hedyscepe canterburyana germinate( number 4) ? do my seeds look viable?

how about Pinanga coronate (9) and Solitary palm (7)?

 

 

[Pal Meir]

#8 could be from Chamaedorea klotzschiana, and these seeds look viable.

Your Pinanga #9 and Heterospathe #7 seeds seem to be good; I think you can treat them normally, and they should germinate within one or two months, maybe sooner. If the green fruits of Hedyscepe #4 are still ripe I can’t say. You should ask @Trava or @richnorm or other members who have experience with this species.

I am still checking your Sydney RBG photos whether #2 may be from a Dypsis sp.

[Pal Meir]

As #2 are not from Hedyscepe they may be seeds of a Howea (belmoreana/forsteriana). The fruits should be dark red when ripe …

[Pal Meir]

Oh, I’ve forgotten your #6: These seeds seem also to be from a Chamaedorea sp., but which one I can’t say. But they are mature.

[Mohsen]

Thanks Pal

I planted some of these seeds ...I will be waiting for some advises for Umbrella Palm seeds ...

[gyuseppe]

Oh, I’ve forgotten your #6: These seeds seem also to be from a Chamaedorea sp., but which one I can’t say. But they are mature.

They seem seeds of chamaedorea arenbergiana, but only 3 seeds seems ripe

[Mohsen]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

I have created a new post and attached all my photos from Sydney Royal Botanical Gardens

Now it is possible to determine #5 as immature  fruits of Lytocaryum weddellianum; here your photo made a little bit brighter:

Hi Pal

I just had a look at green seeds ( number 5) which you suggested they are Lytocaryum weddellianum... I noticed that the fruit is not green anymore and I could easily remove them ( please see below picture- the 3 at left are seeds with  removed fruit) , is there any chance that they are actually mature and I could germinate them?

another question is that I noticed from your Flicker photos that the actual seeds our on the soil and not inside? I should I germinate them, I just wanted to put them in small containers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/10038747506/in/album-72157632033234692/

[Pal Meir]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

I have created a new post and attached all my photos from Sydney Royal Botanical Gardens

Now it is possible to determine #5 as immature  fruits of Lytocaryum weddellianum; here your photo made a little bit brighter:

Hi Pal

I just had a look at green seeds ( number 5) which you suggested they are Lytocaryum weddellianum... I noticed that the fruit is not green anymore and I could easily remove them ( please see below picture- the 3 at left are seeds with  removed fruit) , is there any chance that they are actually mature and I could germinate them?

another question is that I noticed from your Flicker photos that the actual seeds our on the soil and not inside? I should I germinate them, I just wanted to put them in small containers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/10038747506/in/album-72157632033234692/

Hmm, the seeds don’t look bad, so just try it!  – At first put the seeds inside the medium (1st photo with Kokohum, 25-30°C), perhaps 1-2 cm deep. When they show the radicle or at the latest when you can see the first plumule plant sem in pots with the nut on the suface or only half in (2nd photo showing the tip of first plumule). When you put them in a pot use a mineral rich soil mix (e.g. 3rd photo, cf. also https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/15804966142) with excellent (!!!) drainage. Water regularly but don’t leave any water in the saucer (or under the pot: no "wet feet"!).

[Mohsen]

Okay, nice infomative photos! Do you have also photos of the other fruiting palms?

I have created a new post and attached all my photos from Sydney Royal Botanical Gardens

Now it is possible to determine #5 as immature  fruits of Lytocaryum weddellianum; here your photo made a little bit brighter:

Hi Pal

I just had a look at green seeds ( number 5) which you suggested they are Lytocaryum weddellianum... I noticed that the fruit is not green anymore and I could easily remove them ( please see below picture- the 3 at left are seeds with  removed fruit) , is there any chance that they are actually mature and I could germinate them?

another question is that I noticed from your Flicker photos that the actual seeds our on the soil and not inside? I should I germinate them, I just wanted to put them in small containers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/10038747506/in/album-72157632033234692/

Hmm, the seeds don’t look bad, so just try it!  – At first put the seeds inside the medium (1st photo with Kokohum, 25-30°C), perhaps 1-2 cm deep. When they show the radicle or at the latest when you can see the first plumule plant sem in pots with the nut on the suface or only half in (2nd photo showing the tip of first plumule). When you put them in a pot use a mineral rich soil mix (e.g. 3rd photo, cf. also https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/15804966142) with excellent (!!!) drainage. Water regularly but don’t leave any water in the saucer (or under the pot: no "wet feet"!).

thanks Pal for the reply and useful info and instruction...

How long normally would take to see radicle and plumule?

and Is it only for "Lytocaryum weddellianum" that you leave the seeds on surface ( or half on surface ) ? as up to now I always put the seeds completely inside the soil , was I doing it wrong?

[Pal Meir]

Hi Pal

I just had a look at green seeds ( number 5) which you suggested they are Lytocaryum weddellianum... I noticed that the fruit is not green anymore and I could easily remove them ( please see below picture- the 3 at left are seeds with  removed fruit) , is there any chance that they are actually mature and I could germinate them?

another question is that I noticed from your Flicker photos that the actual seeds our on the soil and not inside? I should I germinate them, I just wanted to put them in small containers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/10038747506/in/album-72157632033234692/

 

Hmm, the seeds don’t look bad, so just try it!  – At first put the seeds inside the medium (1st photo with Kokohum, 25-30°C), perhaps 1-2 cm deep. When they show the radicle or at the latest when you can see the first plumule plant sem in pots with the nut on the suface or only half in (2nd photo showing the tip of first plumule). When you put them in a pot use a mineral rich soil mix (e.g. 3rd photo, cf. also https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/15804966142) with excellent (!!!) drainage. Water regularly but don’t leave any water in the saucer (or under the pot: no "wet feet"!).

thanks Pal for the reply and useful info and instruction...

How long normally would take to see radicle and plumule?

and Is it only for "Lytocaryum weddellianum" that you leave the seeds on surface ( or half on surface ) ? as up to now I always put the seeds completely inside the soil , was I doing it wrong?

(1) If the seeds are mature (???) they should germinate after 2 to 4 weeks. (If not, go this month again to Sydney RBG and pick mature seeds.)

(2) The soil mixture is suitable for L. insigne, but not for L. weddellianum.

(3) Seeds on surface is good for L. insigne and L. weddellianum (and many other palms with adjacent or almost adjacent germination). It is not necessary, but much better for good results later.

[Pal Meir]

When you look at my photo of the Howea belmoreana seedlings in your other thread on germination projects you can see that the seeds are still almost on or very near the surface.

[Mohsen]

When you look at my photo of the Howea belmoreana seedlings in your other thread on germination projects you can see that the seeds are still almost on or very near the surface.

thanks Pal, BTW what is Kokohum and also we don't have seramis in Australa , can I use something else?

[Pal Meir]

When you look at my photo of the Howea belmoreana seedlings in your other thread on germination projects you can see that the seeds are still almost on or very near the surface.

thanks Pal, BTW what is Kokohum and also we don't have seramis in Australa , can I use something else?

Kokohum is made of coconut fibre, but for germination you can use peat moss or anything similar. – Instead of seramis you my use perlite or so, but as it is not so stable you have to be careful that the soil mix doesn’t get soggy or too wet.