((Butia x Jubaea) x Jubaea) v.s east coast heat and humidity

[Joe NC]

It is pretty well documented that Butia x Jubaea F1 hybrids and the various hybrid generations (F2, F3,...) back crossed with Butia, (e.g. (JxB)xB and ((JxB)xB)xB) ) can survive and thrive in the hot and humid east coast where the Jubaea parent of this cross will not.  All of these crosses have 50% or less Jubaea genes.  This spring I purchased a ((Butia x Jubaea) x Jubaea), which could be up to ~75% Jubaea, from Patric Schafer.  The summer here in southeast NC was hot, humid, and wet... If this plant was going to have issues with being hot and damp for months, this summer was a good test.  This potted palm so far has been slowly, steadily growing and not showing any signs of being upset.

Folded leaflets that are nice and green, no sign of any Butia blue yet.  The petioles also have a little bit of brown fuzz on them.

Top view.  The oldest leaf was starting to brown, and has since dried up.

Small hooks on the ends of the leaflets.

 

[yabazid]

Beautiful palm joe  I have the same hybrid and other hybrids as well. I built a clear over head protection to protect them from excess rain and moisture in the crown! But with our high humidity, they aren't complaining. 

[Brad Mondel]

Looks perfect but… how slow is it? 

[Joe NC]

It is not winning any speed records.  It was just starting to push the first fully pinnate frond when I got it at the end of May this year.  It didn't do much for a while after I potted it up (growing roots or being angry?), but it has 2.5 full pinnate fronds now.  I don't have any experience with a full Jubaea to compare it to.  I have high hopes that it will speed up a little next year now that it is settled, or at least keep slowly plodding on during the cooler weather to make up for being slow.  I'm happy that something that will hopefully look very Jubaea like and be massive can potentially survive here, even if it takes until I am retired to think about trunking.  

[SailorBold]

Nice choice..  that's one of his hybrids on the list I hope to obtain someday. Thanks for sharing..

[Brad Mondel]

Hey Joe maybe we can start a Jubaea hybrid race since I'm moving to Greenville S.C soon. See who gets a trunk first! Haha 

Where did you get your hybrid if I may ask?

[Moose]

My experience with Jubaea is nil. There does seem to be a constant with massive palms, the sooner they get in the ground the better they like it. If it was my palm, I'd plant it as soon as I saw roots at the container drain holes. I would also mound plant it.

Please keep us aprised to its future development.

[Joe NC]

Hey Joe maybe we can start a Jubaea hybrid race since I'm moving to Greenville S.C soon. See who gets a trunk first! Haha 

Where did you get your hybrid if I may ask?

Well I searched online for a source for Jubaea hybrids, and Google took me to this forum.  I lurked around for a while before signing up, but the name Patric Schafer and his e-mail address came up in nearly every post about cocoid hybrids.  I joined forum, e-mailed Patric, and the rest is history. 

[swolf]

Here's an older one.  This one shows nice silver/gray color underneath.  Hopefully this cell phone quality photo posts OK.

 

 

[redbeard917]

Beautiful palm. I like the twist in the leaf.

[Alicehunter2000]

Very nice....I concur with Moose....I think all the hybrids grow faster in the ground for me. I hope this palm is a winner for the southeast.

[8B palms]

Hi swolf,

That's a really nice looking palm.  How long has it been in the ground and at what size was it planted out.  Do you think it grows quicker than pure jubaea? Clearly if you are in St. Augustine and it is thriving then humidity is clearly not an issue.  Usually the problem that effects most pure jubaea tried in the south eastern US, with the exceptions of a couple in Georgia and North Carolina. Truly awesome specimen, is it one of Patric's creations?

[_Keith]

So, where would on go to buy one of these today?   PM me if not appropriate to post publicly.

[8B palms]

Hi Keith,

 

I know Patric Schaffer has this hybrid for sale, or did have, I think his email is on this forum under many posts, I am sure someone can get you his contact info, thanks

Craig

Edited November 30, 2015 by 8B palms
spelt name wrong

[_Keith]

He sure does.  I even looked for before posting.   It is just that I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other, lol.

[Joe NC]

17 hours ago, swolf said:

Here's an older one.  This one shows nice silver/gray color underneath.  Hopefully this cell phone quality photo posts OK.

 

 

Awesome!  It looks about as Jubaea like at that size as I was hoping it would.  Hopefully it didn't take 20 years to get there...

[smithgn]

I love the twists in the leaves also. Gives it that signature Jubaea look. I have one as well and it's moving mighty slow.

[swolf]

8 hours ago, 8B palms said:

Hi swolf,

That's a really nice looking palm.  How long has it been in the ground and at what size was it planted out.  Do you think it grows quicker than pure jubaea? Clearly if you are in St. Augustine and it is thriving then humidity is clearly not an issue.  Usually the problem that effects most pure jubaea tried in the south eastern US, with the exceptions of a couple in Georgia and North Carolina. Truly awesome specimen, is it one of Patric's creations?

I purchased a number of these from Patric, I believe it was mid 2008 (?) and kept in pots a couple of years since I received plants as seedlings.  Reality is that humidity tolerance and speed is quite variable.  Some seedlings died while others do fine with humidity but are slow (but attractive).  Pure Jubs are a no-go around here... the hybrids are usually viable and some are good growers.  

If buying seedlings of this cross I'd encourage buying a few.  Keeping them out of the rain & overhead water when young is a good idea -- they seem to do better/well once they achieve some size.  JxB F1 are also nice.

Steve

 

[Joe NC]

I made the decision to put this palm in the ground at the end of April.  A little growth over the winter, but it is just now starting to show some movement with the warmer days we have been having.

[yabazid]

I put mine in the ground in march. Its about the same size of yours if not smaller. Let the race begin! 

[yabazid]

Its looking rough from being in a pot outside for winter with only protection from overhead precipitation. Anyway, its recovering beautifully. One full green frond opened up and two spears on the way.  

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I have 5 JxB F1 in the ground that are about 5-6' tall over all and they are growing at a similar Butia rate.  However with the temps in the mid 90's and lows in the high 70's the trunking Jubaea has really sped up and is growing faster than everything (spear wise), including the three mature Butia 100' from it. The smaller Jubaea (4'tall) have finally acclimated to our intense sun and I am getting zero washout on the leaves this year. 

Also, I sold two parajubaea to a guy southeast of Shreveport, LA a few weeks ago who has had a Jubaea next to a large pond for the last 5 years.  He planted it at a 10G size and it is now roughly a 25G sized plant now.  That area experiences extremely oppressive humidity (dew points 80degrees regularly), near zero airflow, 55"+ of rainfall and it seems to be doing well. This is the third Jubaea that I have seen planted long term in very humid areas that are healthy, so I am starting to think that the Nematodes in Florida are the limiting factor to growing a Jubaea, not the humidity.

However, it is still a huge struggle to keep potted seedling Jubaea alive in DFW with our lower humidity.  Pinnate 7G plants and larger thrive here even with overhead watering..

[Alicehunter2000]

oohh nematode theory....don't like it...hope its not true as I have a JxS that will be getting put into the ground next spring.

Speaking of nematodes.....would planting in nematode free soil closer to the trunk (say a 3 ft. radius) hole be effective in stopping the ill effects of nematodes....or will the plant decline once the more remote roots reach sandy nematode soil? Are large established palms able to shake off the effects of nematodes. Finally, would something like Bayer Tree and Shrub systemic pesticide be effective against either killing the nematodes upon contact in the soil...or be effective in killing nematodes attacking roots?

[Joe NC]

Mine just suffered double spear pull.  It actually had put out some nice growth since going in the ground.  Bummer.  My yard is an anomalous patch of heavy clay surrounded by the sandbox that is the rest of SE coastal NC.  I tried to plant it mounded, but I don't think that was high enough, with temps in the high 90's and all the rain we keep getting, the newest leaves just turned brown and pulled a couple days ago.  I put it back in a pot and treated with H2O2.  Hopefully I can nurse it back to health and try it in a taller mound if it makes a recovery.  Damn...   

[SailorBold]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎56‎:‎22‎, Joe NC said:

Mine just suffered double spear pull.  It actually had put out some nice growth since going in the ground.  Bummer.  My yard is an anomalous patch of heavy clay surrounded by the sandbox that is the rest of SE coastal NC.  I tried to plant it mounded, but I don't think that was high enough, with temps in the high 90's and all the rain we keep getting, the newest leaves just turned brown and pulled a couple days ago.  I put it back in a pot and treated with H2O2.  Hopefully I can nurse it back to health and try it in a taller mound if it makes a recovery.  Damn...   

I had one hybrid that wasn't doing so well.. almost like the growing point was constricted.. it isn't looking pretty but this spring it grew out a scrunched deformed frond and now is pushing spears..  I'm not sure exactly what it is.. only because I couldn't choose at the time of purchase(couldn't make my mind up) so I told Patric to just pick one eenie meenie miney mo like... and its completely green at this point in comparison to bxj.   I contemplated removing it..but sort of glad I didn't at this point because its starting to grow.  I feel your pain but overall I would say these palms buds are more resilient than other palms in my limited experience.

[yabazid]

Any Updates??

[Joe NC]

8 hours ago, yabazid said:

Any Updates??

It was doing great potted.  It just hated to go into the ground.   Once I potted it back up it never regrew a spear, and just slowly withered away as the oldest fronds aged out and died.  The last green leaf just browned.  No new growth.  I guess I jumped the gun on planting it.   

[swolf]

Getting curvier over time.  Please pardon the weeds.

Steve

[swolf]

Bonus pic.  Siblings of this cross are quite varied in growth rate and form.  ONE that I have gets chalky white both on leaf bases and even the petioles.

[Brad Mondel]

On 12/2/2017, 9:11:59, swolf said:

Bonus pic.  Siblings of this cross are quite varied in growth rate and form.  ONE that I have gets chalky white both on leaf bases and even the petioles.

How is this hybrid?

[swolf]

Fine, last time I saw it.  For a little bit of insurance I do treat these hybrids with a preventative fungicide before the humid rainy season.  

Steve

 

[swolf]

That particular BJxJubaea is still showing nearly white petioles.  Seems a nice feature if I can eventually cross with one of the siblings showing similar traits (petioles and/or glacous underside of leaves).

[Alicehunter2000]

Does anyone have a pic of one of Patric's BxJxS...maybe a larger one?

Also does anyone have a Pic of Patric's BxJ that he uses as the receptor for the Syagrus pollen?

[swolf]

Not certain Patric still has access to it, but he was using the famous Douglas BxJ F1.  Here’s a photo Alberto posted back in 2008:

 

[swolf]

Let me try that again ;-)

 

[maesy]

Here you can find some nice pictures

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/22293-walnut-creek-california-the-dick-douglas-garden/#comment-371360

[RJ]

Close up of the trunk 

 

 

[Alicehunter2000]

Great....now I know who is probably the parent of mine. Great looking palm

[swolf]

Updated photo.  Post-winter on a hazy/overcast day the underleaf color isn’t as visible but I thought it looked good after some weeding & trimming.  You can see some of the twisting leaves on this one, whereas many siblings have straighter leaves like pure Jubaea.

Reminder: if anyone with Florida connections has some interest in partnering/purchasing this 4.5 acre palm farm they can PM me.  Now that the largest JxB F1s are flowering, the distribution phase will be more than I can handle alone.

[RJ]

What size did you plant that out at? Looks fantastic!