Ravenea glauca from Andringitra

[LJG]

One of the plants that I was looking forward to seeing in habitat was Ravenea glauca. As of right now there are two areas to see Glauca, one is Isalo where they grow in the canyons and make for the famous photo for palm lovers. In talking to Dransfeld, what we knew as Glauca will most likely become a new species. The second location is to go to the Andringitra area. This is where I just came back from and was excited to post some photos and details on this beautiful plant. Having seen both now, in my opinion it is easy to see they are two separate species. 

 

In Adringitra, there are two areas to view them - both require a 25 km jeep trail drive to Camp Catta. Once at Camp Catta there is a 7.5 km hike into Adringitra Park with a lot of elevation gain. It is no easy hike. This route eventually takes you to the top of Boby Peak - the highest point you can climb in Madagascar. 2650 meters to be exact. In total I walked 27 miles to see this area as I did a two night camping trek so I could see the sunrise from the top of Madagascar. It required a freezing 3 AM start, but man was it worth it! 

 

The second area involves a much easier and shorter hike from Camp Catta. Just head to one of two day hikes from the camp and in climbing up to Chameleon Peak or the other side, you will see the palms. Now I will warn you, going this route gives you the benefit of seeing Dypsis albofarinosa in habitat as well. You will also see Ravenea glauca growing right along Dypsis albofarinosa, which was cool to view. However, there is no comparison in seeing the forest of Ravenea by hiking into Andringitra. Shimmering blue when the wind blows for as far as the eye could see. Truly a magical sight. You wont see Dypsis albofarinosa this route however, so I ended up doing both as I had the time and was in great shape having put on close to 100 miles of trekking in Madagascar so far. The palms found close to Camp Catta are not as abundant and are more isolated in a ravine. 

 

The first photo below was the highest elevation plant I located. I logged it at roughly 6400 feet. Like most the palms I saw in habitat, they were not large and were indeed very Butia looking. As you can tell from the wind breaker jacket, it was cool up there.

 

The second and third photo shows how there are just groves of these palms and why I called it the Ravenea forest. Ravenea glauca dominates the entire area.

The fourth photo shows how Ravenea glauca got its name. Some were bluer than others - to be expected with palms growing in Madagascar.

The fifth photo shows the tomentose petiole bases.

The sixth photo was exciting to me. Currently there is only one other Madagascar palm that I know of that has something that resembles a tap root. There is a second I know now. My guide dug out two seedlings on the path and both had these monster tap-like roots. It actually made sense somewhat because earlier it had occurred to me how Ravenea xerophila these palms look just before they begin trunking. Andringitra has a dry season and Ravenea glauca can be found growing with two species of aloe. So it can go without rain for some time.

One final remark I would like to make is that I believe this palm will be SLOW growing. I can just tell by looking at the palms in the wild. My bet is close to Ravenea xerophila slow. So when it makes it into cultivation, don't expect what we see with the current Glauca. 

 

[Pal Meir]

Very nice habitat photos and interesting informations!

[User00]

amazing photos 

[nick]

 

 

thx, wonderful scenery and palms.

But these plams look very different to "R. glauca" I know. The leaves are more bending and stronger and not as "soft" in comparison to these photos http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Ravenea_glauca I'm perplexed now.

Edited October 28, 2015 by nick

[Danilopez89]

They look like a different palm compared to the pics on Palmpedia...

[User00]

i think it's  a subspecies , btw Madagascar is a living laboratory, more than 11000 Endemic plants . i hope many  palm trees waiting for discovered 

Edited October 28, 2015 by User00

[LJG]

The palm we all know and grow as Glauca in cultivation comes from Isalo. The name will most likely change to a new species in the future. The type plant and the true Glauca is the palm I just posted photos of. I do not think this palm is in cultivation yet. For more details, IPS members can read Palms 56(2): pages 101-103  from June 2012.

[Danilopez89]

Cool! I wonder what the new name will be.

This new one looks pretty much like a butia. Very exciting things in Madagascar!

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Danilopez89

[Hilo Jason]

Great pictures and write up Len! 

[Pal Meir]

The palm we all know and grow as Glauca in cultivation comes from Isalo. The name will most likely change to a new species in the future. The type plant and the true Glauca is the palm I just posted photos of. I do not think this palm is in cultivation yet. For more details, IPS members can read Palms 56(2): pages 101-103  from June 2012.

Here is a link to that article as pdf: http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2012/vol56n2p100-103.pdf

[LJG]

The palm we all know and grow as Glauca in cultivation comes from Isalo. The name will most likely change to a new species in the future. The type plant and the true Glauca is the palm I just posted photos of. I do not think this palm is in cultivation yet. For more details, IPS members can read Palms 56(2): pages 101-103  from June 2012.

Here is a link to that article as pdf: http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2012/vol56n2p100-103.pdf

Thanks. Reading this again tells me John missed seeing them in Andringitra National Park. They occur much higher there than where John saw them around Tsaranoro. He stated they grow to 1000 meters. I recorded them with my GPS at 1800 meters in Andringitra National Park. For the record, Tsaranoro is where I saw them on my second hike and they are not in the numbers you see them in the park itself. Perhaps I didn't continue around enough to see them in the numbers he stated in the article. It was dumping rain and lightning shooting everywhere. I was getting nervous that my last iPhone photo my wife would see after I had been killed by lightning was me with a Glauca selfie. 

[jdapalms]

Wow! nice pictures. Did you get pictures with flowers or fruit? Seed?

[LJG]

I found a few palms with large, immature fruit. My guide said the ripe seed is large. So I was a few months away from getting seed.

[richnorm]

Very cool. I have noticed that "ordinary" Ravenea glauca can have huge succulent roots even before the first leaf appears.   A friend of mine took pictures of of a population growing in pockets of soil on a cliff face. Absolutely spectacular.  He was into Aloes at the time, not palms so pretty sure it was a dry area.

 

[realarch]

Len, the narrative and photos are just outstanding! Magical stuff from a magical place. 

Certainly not just the casual tourist, looks like you were well prepared.

Tim

[mike in kurtistown]

Good report, Len, and very interesting. Thanks.

[Perito]

With the one that has been around as R. glauca I have been wondering how it got that name. With these trees that you have found Len it is easy to see.

[Mohsen]

This is a baby one ( right one) I am waiting to be delivered ( Thanks to Ben) and One from PlamPedia

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Mohsen

[Josh-O]

Len, I felt In was standing there with you. Great detailed bio on this potential new species. I agree they are Ravenea xerophila like in looks. Judging on how close the ring scars are apart I would also assume they are slow growers. Keep up the good work

 

post more pic's  if you have them?

[DoomsDave]

Len:

What a fascinating post. Those look so much like Buteas I'd have thought they were. Interesting example of convergent evolution, perhaps?

They are certainly more glaucous than the ones we now call glauca.

Are you back in the U.S. yet?

dave

[Mantis sp.]

This is a special bump!

What happened to this specie?

From my eyes, this Palm could be a  sub. of Ravanea glauca or even better a new specie. 

R. glauca looks completely different to this palm.

Thoughts?

 

[erin]

 

Fantastic photos! Great information.

What cool looking tree!

[Alberto]

On 28/10/2015 15:51:51, LJG said:

I found a few palms with large, immature fruit. My guide said the ripe seed is large. So I was a few months away from getting seed.

 Bummer

I missed this topic. Wow, very nice magical place. Thanks for sharing thisphotos. . Wondering how cold it could be there in winter nights

[LJG]

8 hours ago, Mantis sp. said:

This is a special bump!

What happened to this specie?

From my eyes, this Palm could be a  sub. of Ravanea glauca or even better a new specie. 

R. glauca looks completely different to this palm.

Thoughts?

 

Thie palms you see here are from the type locale. So this is the "real" Ravanea glauca.The ones we are growing in cultivation that everyone has will either be a separate form of this palm or a new species. More work has to be done on it.  My gut is it will be a new species. Just too many differences and the two locales are separated by about 200 kms. 

[LJG]

22 hours ago, Alberto said:

 Bummer

I missed this topic. Wow, very nice magical place. Thanks for sharing thisphotos. . Wondering how cold it could be there in winter nights

Good question Alberto. I know the lowest temps recorded in Madagascar have been recorded on top of this mountain range and that was was 18 ° F. But these palms are about 1100 meters below the peaks. I think once these reach cultivation we will find them to be the most cold hardy palms out of Madagascar. 

[Stevetoad]

Dang I missed this one too. Fantastic shots Len and a great post too. Great looking palm. I agree that it looks like it will be snail slow. I'd love to get one in my garden. It looks like some were blue. 

[Tyrone]

Very interesting thread. I want seed. I think these will do very well in cultivation.

[DoomsDave]

We all want seed!

[PalmTreeDude]

The beauty!

[Palmcycasnut]

Great looking palms! Definitely look like a butia x xerophila lol.

[Kim]

I missed this before also -- great photos and reporting.  Excellent bump!

[Tracy]

20 hours ago, LJG said:

The palms you see here are from the type locale. So this is the "real" Ravanea glauca.The ones we are growing in cultivation that everyone has will either be a separate form of this palm or a new species. More work has to be done on it.  My gut is it will be a new species.

Since I just recently got a label for "Ravanea glauca", it looks like I have two projects now:  first get one of the real Ravanea glauca, when they become available, and second, get a new label for the plant I'm growing as Ravanea glauca when it gets its new name or subspecies designation.  I missed this last year as well, but have to compliment Len on an excellent write up and photos.  Sounds like a trip you would want to make again in the future!

[Darold Petty]

BUMP one of my favorite threads !

  I was really excited to see seeds offered by RPS.  I ordered 50 seeds.  When they arrived I was surprised by the large size, approximately 15-18 mm in diameter.  Only 3 sprouts appeared, then nothing for a long time.  After extraction from the germination medium I discovered that all the 47 other seeds had rotted.  I used a germination mix of 1 part peat and 2 parts perlite kept moist with bottom heat.  Perhaps this was the wrong technique with this drought tolerant species ? 

 I broke the very tip of the root when removing the seedlings from the mix, but the small plants seem OK now,.. about 3 weeks after potting up into individual pots.

Who else has had success, and did you have a large number of the seeds rot ??

[LJG]

Nice work Darold. Definitely need a deep germination chamber for these as they quickly send out a deep root - as you found. I found a few seed that sunk in Mad and brought them back. I have one palm from that. I was wrong in my guess they are slow. They move at the same growth rate as the Isalo Glauca. I brought seed of that too and have plants side-by-side to see difference. I germinated mine in an airy mix similar to yours. Tomorrow I'll get pics of the two plants at the 3 gallon stage I have.

[John in Andalucia]

13 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

BUMP one of my favorite threads !

  I was really excited to see seeds offered by RPS.  I ordered 50 seeds.  When they arrived I was surprised by the large size, approximately 15-18 mm in diameter.  Only 3 sprouts appeared, then nothing for a long time.  After extraction from the germination medium I discovered that all the 47 other seeds had rotted.  I used a germination mix of 1 part peat and 2 parts perlite kept moist with bottom heat.  Perhaps this was the wrong technique with this drought tolerant species ? 

 I broke the very tip of the root when removing the seedlings from the mix, but the small plants seem OK now,.. about 3 weeks after potting up into individual pots.

Who else has had success, and did you have a large number of the seeds rot ??

Darold,

I bought 10 and they all went bad. I'll say no more about that one! 

 

 

[msporty]

Great work Darold!

 

I rotted 10/10, but mine were in an open community pot with 2/3 perlite and 1/3 peat. I will try again in the future unless someone like Jeff Marcus or another palm grower offers them for sale.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing those pics Len!

[Alberto]

On 16/12/2017, 04:35:24, Darold Petty said:

BUMP one of my favorite threads !

  I was really excited to see seeds offered by RPS.  I ordered 50 seeds.  When they arrived I was surprised by the large size, approximately 15-18 mm in diameter.  Only 3 sprouts appeared, then nothing for a long time.  After extraction from the germination medium I discovered that all the 47 other seeds had rotted.  I used a germination mix of 1 part peat and 2 parts perlite kept moist with bottom heat.  Perhaps this was the wrong technique with this drought tolerant species ? 

 I broke the very tip of the root when removing the seedlings from the mix, but the small plants seem OK now,.. about 3 weeks after potting up into individual pots.

Who else has had success, and did you have a large number of the seeds rot ??

[Josh-O]

On 12/15/2017, 10:35:24, Darold Petty said:

BUMP one of my favorite threads !

  I was really excited to see seeds offered by RPS.  I ordered 50 seeds.  When they arrived I was surprised by the large size, approximately 15-18 mm in diameter.  Only 3 sprouts appeared, then nothing for a long time.  After extraction from the germination medium I discovered that all the 47 other seeds had rotted.  I used a germination mix of 1 part peat and 2 parts perlite kept moist with bottom heat.  Perhaps this was the wrong technique with this drought tolerant species ? 

 I broke the very tip of the root when removing the seedlings from the mix, but the small plants seem OK now,.. about 3 weeks after potting up into individual pots.

Who else has had success, and did you have a large number of the seeds rot ??

Nice work  Darold

[Josh-O]

On 12/15/2017, 10:35:24, Darold Petty said:

BUMP one of my favorite threads !

  I was really excited to see seeds offered by RPS.  I ordered 50 seeds.  When they arrived I was surprised by the large size, approximately 15-18 mm in diameter.  Only 3 sprouts appeared, then nothing for a long time.  After extraction from the germination medium I discovered that all the 47 other seeds had rotted.  I used a germination mix of 1 part peat and 2 parts perlite kept moist with bottom heat.  Perhaps this was the wrong technique with this drought tolerant species ? 

 I broke the very tip of the root when removing the seedlings from the mix, but the small plants seem OK now,.. about 3 weeks after potting up into individual pots.

Who else has had success, and did you have a large number of the seeds rot ??

Nice work  Darold

[LJG]

Andringitra R glauca on left. Isalo on right. Both same age.