Caryota no

[elHoagie]

I have a spot I want to plant a large Caryota, but I'm not sure which one.  I've heard that C. no is supposed to be much nicer looking than C. gigas, but it would be cheaper/easier for me to get a C. gigas.  I've never seen a C. no in person, so I'm not sure what to think.  Which one would you plant?  Any opinions would be appreciated...

thanks - Jack

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

yes....

[Walter John]

no........

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

We'll call it a draw...maybe

[Tyrone]

A lady about a km from me has a largish C no which actually gets pretty much battered and spotty in winter, whereas gigas gets no damage at all. I think C no is just a bit more tropical and as it gets big isn't easy to protect once it's bigger. That's just my observations in my climate.

regards

Tyrone

[osideterry]

In my opinion C no and C rumphiana are the two best. I can barely keep a C gigas going in my yard, but it sounds like your yard may never hit 32F. I'd get which ever one you can get a bigger, better deal on.

[Don Little]

Jack

Huntington Library has two Caryotas labeled as C no, and if in fact that is what they actually are, then C gigas in mho is much nicer.  If they are infact C no at the Huntington then perhaps maybe they just don't reach their full potential here as Tyrone mentioned because of their more tropical requirements.   There is a chance however that they could be mislabeled and in that case maybe someone who has had success with them here might chime in.  I personaly wouldn't mine trying one myself, but it just seems hard to meet the look of a healthy and massive C gigas.

[quaman58]

Jack,

My neighbor's tried them the last two years. In fairness, they were probably too young to slam into the ground, but that's what he did, & neither were able to survive our winters-- even the rather mild '05 one. But they are strikingly beautiful, and if you could get a bit of size on it in a greenhouse first, who knows?

Bret

[Daryl]

Amongst others, I've got C.no, C.rumphiana and C.gigas growing in my garden here. The C.no and C.rumphiana suffer slightly from fungal spotting in my winters due to lots of heavy dew and poor air circulation, along with cool overnight temps. The C.gigas doesn't get a mark on it. As for growth, my C.no is currently flowering, but never developed to full size as I kept in in a pot for too long prior to planting (probably 6 or 7 years). Last year it  fed on some runoff fertiliser from my plumeria which was loaded with pottasium. This triggered early flowering as well. The C.rumphiana are now quite large, trunks have about 12-15 feet of clean trunk, and are about 35-40 ft tall overall. The C.gigas is still a while away from trunking, but the leaves are quite large. All of these were planted in early 2000.

The C.gigas has nicely arranged leaflets, which are rounded and appear 'neat' in their arrangement.

The C.no has much larger leaflets, that look very lush, but no quite so tidy. I have seen other specimens of this species torn to shreds in wind, so they are no good if you get a lot of wind in your garden.

Here is my C.no flowering today.

regards,

Daryl

[Daryl]

I forgot to mention, there used to be some huge C.no at the Townsville palmetum, and they had big swollen trunks like royals. They are long gone now, of course, but I think C.gigas is a larger palm in comparison. The leaves have a larger spread/area and the trunks are fatter as well on all of the ones I've seen.

Daryl.

[elHoagie]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Terry - The coldest it got at my place in January was 3C (37F), so I don't think I have to worry about freezes here.

Don - I've seen the trees labeled C. no at the Huntington, and they look terrible.  I figured they must just be mislabeled because the trunks are so skinny, but maybe it's due to the climate?

Bret - How big were the ones your neighbor tried?  And how cold does it get at your place?

Tyrone - Since our climates are fairly similar, it would probably look similar here.  How bad does it get in the winter?

Daryl - That's not a good sign if they spot up during the winter at your place...  Although when I look up the average hi/lo for Brisbane in July it's 21/9, which is pretty close to the January average of 20/9 at my place.  Can that be correct for Brisbane?  I always thought you guys were much warmer than us?By the way, the leaves in your picture all look great.

I guess there's probably a reason I see so many C. gigas around here and I've never seen a C. no.  I think that's probably the reason I want to try growing one...

Jack

[Jeff Searle]

Jack,

   Like I tell many, many people, find out what does BEST in your area. I would guess that C.no is more tropical and will not look/hold up as well as C.gigas. Talk around,and do your homework.

Jeff

[Kim]

Is this an either/or question?  Why not try both if you have the space?

[elHoagie]

(Kim @ Apr. 06 2007,11:04)

QUOTE

Is this an either/or question?  Why not try both if you have the space?

Kim,

I have plenty of space, but since I'm on a steep hill with no access for large equipment to get past the house, I think it might be impossible to remove a large palm from the backyard.  So, I think the only place for a big Caryota is in the front yard, which is only 15m (50ft) long by 5m (15ft) deep.  I don't think I want to cram two of these monsters in the front...

I guess I could always put one in the back and worry about it later?  Or maybe I'll start with C. no in the front.  If it looks like crap I'll remove it and put a C. gigas in the hole.

Jack

[quaman58]

Jack,

Both were fairly robust 1 gal. size. The '05 winter was mild, but got down to 33F on a couple occasions. '06, was the worst--down to 25F on a couple nights. There were also Caryota ochlandra, urens and gigas in the same zone. The gigas were the only un-touched ones..

Bret

[DoomsDave]

Jack:

My experience is limited, but C. gigas is definitely more foolproof from what I've seen and from others have told me.  C. no is clearly less tolerant of cold, but also grows a lot faster when it is happy.

I have a baby one in a gallon that came through that awful freeze much much better than I thought it would.  

That said, you're up on that awesome high hill and you've got all that land.

I say:  Compromise!  Plant both and see what happens.

Up to you, of course . . . .

dave

[ed110220]

I'd plant them at the back and cut them up and burn them or use the logs for decorative stepping stones or something like that when they have died.

Live for today and don't worry about 20 years time I say!

[Joe palma]

I have a nice 5g C. no that came out of a green house 1 yr before the Jan. freeze. It was located between the house and a shade house, w/ no direct canopy, no wind exposure and saw a low of 32F, frost one night. Shows no damage.

The gigas in 1g and 5g in the same area show no damage either, only the 20g one, planted in the ground in the front yard, 1 yr ago, shows damage (figures!) but only to a lower frond on the wind exposed side (this is a wind exposed location). Otherwise it looks great.

I have to agree w/ the others though, and say that the gigas will probably do the best overall.

[wendisplantation]

Try both Jack..no wondering later    

[bgl]

Yeah Jack, live dangerously!! Plant a BUNCH of them!! For all you know, you might be living in Hawaii when they get ready to flower!

[Tyrone]

(elHoagie @ Apr. 06 2007,13:32)

QUOTE

Tyrone - Since our climates are fairly similar, it would probably look similar here.  How bad does it get in the winter?

The C no I've seen around here tend to be yellow anemic looking that get shredded in the wind in winter. The lady down the road from me had a semi-protected palm garden which allowed Cubans and spindles and bottles to grow completely unmarked but the C no looked awful, but largish.

The other one about 40km south from me in a very cold area was growing well inside an unheated cold frame but was punching thru the celing at 20ft tall. That area got blasted with -5C last winter and it was incinerated although it was inside a cold frame. The cold blast killed P roebellini's, lots of cycads, tree ferns under plastic and crisped up heaps of Howeas. That gives you an idea of the cold. The first example I mentioned would not have seen below 1C and is still OK just yellowish.

regards

Tyrone

[Daryl]

(elHoagie @ Apr. 07 2007,03:32)

QUOTE

Daryl - That's not a good sign if they spot up during the winter at your place...  Although when I look up the average hi/lo for Brisbane in July it's 21/9, which is pretty close to the January average of 20/9 at my place.  Can that be correct for Brisbane?  I always thought you guys were much warmer than us?By the way, the leaves in your picture all look great.

Jack, my climate is probably just slightly warmer than yours. The spotting was only minor and that was when they were young and small. No worries now. Although some may doubt it, not all of Queensland is warm all the time. The climate here is actually quite mild (and very 'liveable'), without too much tropical discomfort. BTW, I don't live in Brisbane...

Having said that, all Caryota do very well here, given enough water ...LOL!

The closest Met station to me is Hinze Dam, and these are the stats...

Temp stats

regards,

Daryl

[Phil]

Jack,

In my garden in San Diego, I have a fairly large plant.  It's been there at least 20 years and is about 35 feet tall.  I think it probably won't get much taller.  It has not flowered as of yet, but should soon.  I can't be sure of the exact coldest it's seen, but I'd guess somewhere in the mid-thirties this winter as it pierced the canopy.  At the nursery we have some in containers that saw 26 degrees under shade cloth (measured below the cloth) and they seem fine.  I hope this information can help guide you.  And, btw, I saw in another thread you've tried a Coconut in your garden.  With that kind of courage, I wouldn't think twice about planting a Caryota no.

Phil

[elHoagie]

Bret and Tyrone - thanks for the follow up!

Joe and Phil - that's good news your plants handled the cold so well.  The Cocos is more of an experiment that I expect will fail.  The Caryota is going to help form a canopy for me, so I want to make sure I have a plant that will look good.

Daryl - Thanks for the clarification, that's good news it only spotted when it was young.  I knew you don't live in Brisbane, but that was the easiest place to find climate information for .  It looks like Gold Coast is a little warmer than Brisbane...

Maybe I will end up planting both species...

[redant]

I got a great deal on two 15 gal NOs ($50 each) at the SFPS sale  last Nov. They where both outside all winter. We had a frost in Feb with a low in the mid 30's, couple of other nights in the upper 30's. No problems at all. They are both sending up new spears, they grow amazingly fast. I love the look of this palm but can see how the wind will shred these guys.

[SubTropicRay]

Jack,

There is a large specimen (40') near my home that is now intermingled in a Live Oak canopy.  It has done beautifully since the frost has been kept at bay.  It is definitely less hardy and more beautiful than gigas but in Florida, topples just as easily in hurricanes.

Ray

[Orlando]

Jack, have you thought of giving C. obtusa a try? Though closely related to gigas (and similar in appearance), I think they might be hardier for your climate, and, of course, much hardier than C. no...

[Gileno Machado]

Jack:

So what? No Bismarckias in the front yard this time? I knew you were gonna be missing your neighbor in Altadenanarivo and the nicelooking messy Phoenix canariensis...

I've tried several Caryotas from seed...here in Recife C mitis are considered weeds and we also see occasional urens here and there. I thought zebrinas would be my challenging species here, but they grow fine and love the climate. Gigas don't adapt so well here and I've lost several so far. My friend Acácio managed to grow a few nice gigas and I'm planning to steal one of them soon from him. Caryota no is something else...now I undertand the reason of the latin epithet: every morning I go check my seedlings and there she is looking the same...I tell her: Grow caryota, grow !! Then she replies her name to me...