Is my Mule Sterile?

[_Keith]

Just gets worse from here, lol

[Josh-O]

3 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Yes... I scraped the endocarp with my nail and revealed the white coconut meat (endosperm ). I also noted before I cut with bolt cutters that I had a functional pore as described on the illustration. 

throw some in a community pot, grow them up for 3 years and let us know what they look like.

 

[Alicehunter2000]

I don't believe it is self pollinated ..... we come from the land of Butia odorata here .....probably literally 100's within a 10 mile radius. They all fruit profusely. My neighbors was flowering at the same time as my mule....less than 100ft. Away. Bees out the wazoo!  I believe this to be a (BxS)xB. This mule is constantly sending up spathes....many abort. I currently have a spathe where only maybe 10 seeds are developing....everything else aborted. 

[Pal Meir]

Compared to my Lytocaryum seedling it would have already a very enlarged embryo?

[Alicehunter2000]

Back when I was ordering hybrids from Patric, he explained to me that most mules are not receptive to foreign pollen but some are. As we all know mules are almost all self sterile. This is what I believe this mule to be (self-sterile). Mules that are receptive to outside pollen is much more likely. Patrick has a (or some) mules that he pollinate's with Jubaea, Butia, and Syagrus .... no one seems to question as to whether or not his "triple" hybrids will only show the characteristics of only a single species. I am curious as to why you all would think this seed (if developed) would only produce either a strait queen or strait butia?

[Alicehunter2000]

Pal, you have the mescarp labled as endosperm on your illustration. 

[Alicehunter2000]

[Alicehunter2000]

Endosperm is the white

[Alicehunter2000]

I think I just yanked the embryo out of the endosperm....it was even more white and you can see the hole it left.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

The seed pictured above is able to germinate, no doubt about that.  If it came from your Mule then it was crossed back with another species.  Even the very few mules that don't abort the fruit will be completely solid, but not full size.  The same thing occurs to Butia that has been cross pollinated with Queen or Jubaea pollen, but didn't "take".

[Brad Mondel]

2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Compared to my Lytocaryum seedling it would have already a very enlarged embryo?

Pal I think you're just a little confused. The seed on the right has not been sliced like the one on the left. The one on the right has only been cracked exposing the kernel. Inside the kernel is the endosperm and embryo. The cracked shell functions like a coconut husk protecting the kernel (embryo and endosperm). :)

[Pal Meir]

6 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

Pal I think you're just a little confused. The seed on the right has not been sliced like the one on the left. The one on the right has only been cracked exposing the kernel. Inside the kernel is the endosperm and embryo. The cracked shell functions like a coconut husk protecting the kernel (embryo and endosperm). :)

Oh, now it’s clear.  I didn’t think that the endocarp (shell) is soooo thick!  And I hadn’t seen the other photo with the endosperm (kernel) being crashed …:

[Moose]

12 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Back when I was ordering hybrids from Patric, he explained to me that most mules are not receptive to foreign pollen but some are. As we all know mules are almost all self sterile. This is what I believe this mule to be (self-sterile). Mules that are receptive to outside pollen is much more likely. Patrick has a (or some) mules that he pollinate's with Jubaea, Butia, and Syagrus .... no one seems to question as to whether or not his "triple" hybrids will only show the characteristics of only a single species. I am curious as to why you all would think this seed (if developed) would only produce either a strait queen or strait butia?

If you have a receptive Mule (and I believe you do), why not obtain Jubae pollen and start dusting her? 

[Brad Mondel]

4 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Oh, now it’s clear.  I didn’t think that the endocarp (shell) is soooo thick!  And I hadn’t seen the other photo with the endosperm (kernel) being crashed …:

This is so exciting!  cool illustration pal! I really enjoy these. 

[Pal Meir]

 

16 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

This is so exciting!  cool illustration pal! I really enjoy these. 

Thanks, I was totally confused by the first photos, thinking that the blue-white outer part were the mesocarp … But now I can see that it is all together only the small seed. It would be interesting to get posted a pic showing the hole shape of the seed (with its endocarp/shell), if it looks like a round Butia seed or longer and not so smooth like a Syagrus …

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks everyone for the input. Jubaea pollen would be hard to get, what I would really like to do would be a (BxS)xS ....

A reliably cold hardy 9a/8b queen-like paLM would be great for us up here in the cold north. Queen pollen should be easier to get as well.

[Josh-O]

18 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Thanks everyone for the input. Jubaea pollen would be hard to get, what I would really like to do would be a (BxS)xS ....

A reliably cold hardy 9a/8b queen-like paLM would be great for us up here in the cold north. Queen pollen should be easier to get as well.

sounds like there is a possibility for this to work.

look like you have a cool up and coming pollination project.

I'll be your first customer if you pull this off 

[Moose]

Throw those seeds in a community pot and see what shakes out. I'll bet a couple of interesting muleys develope.

[DoomsDave]

Just plant some seeds, keep warm and wait for them to pop.

Some will, in my limited experience. My Mule of Doom has sex-buds somewhere. Here and there a seed sprouts.

Keith did any of the ones I sent you sprout? If not, or if yes, I'll send more when they're available.

[Ben in Norcal]

9 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Just plant some seeds, keep warm and wait for them to pop.

Some will, in my limited experience. My Mule of Doom has sex-buds somewhere. Here and there a seed sprouts.

Keith did any of the ones I sent you sprout? If not, or if yes, I'll send more when they're available.

I am always happy to try and germinate some F2 Mulies as well Dave. 

[_Keith]

I called first dibs, lol

[DoomsDave]

Ben and Keith:

I'll keep you both in mind. Cold hardy material is a top priority where you both are.

That said, I wish some seeds would come along. TONS of flowers (20 spend flower stalks!) no seed this year.

[Alicehunter2000]

I have no problems sending some seeds yall's way. Really unsure how many would be viable....I didn't even clean them just waited for the ants and bugs to clean most of the pulp and threw them in a pot. When I get time, I will try and dig them out, clean properly and send ya'll some. Most all appear to be sinkers but since there was no attempt to purposely pollinate them....not sure the bees got to all of them. May cut a few more open to get an idea of percentage with embryo. I got two more spathes ready to open....wish I had some queen pollen.

[Ben in Norcal]

Thanks Dave and David!  I'm always looking for new germination projects, experiments, and - yes - cold hardy material!

[Moose]

This has evolved into a very nice thread. 

Thanks David!

[Josh-O]

11 hours ago, _Keith said:

I called first dibs, lol

beat you to it. read above 

[Ben in Norcal]

Just now, Josh-O said:

beat you to it. read above 

Keith and I have greater needs. 

[Josh-O]

2 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Keith and I have greater needs. 

hehehehehehe

[Brad Mondel]

Don't forget about me ;)

[_Keith]

I got money. 

[Alicehunter2000]

[Phoenikakias]

On 14/12/2015, 9:33:46, Alicehunter2000 said:

I have no problems sending some seeds yall's way. Really unsure how many would be viable....I didn't even clean them just waited for the ants and bugs to clean most of the pulp and threw them in a pot. When I get time, I will try and dig them out, clean properly and send ya'll some. Most all appear to be sinkers but since there was no attempt to purposely pollinate them....not sure the bees got to all of them. May cut a few more open to get an idea of percentage with embryo. I got two more spathes ready to open....wish I had some queen pollen.

Maybe, just maybe, I will be able to send to you Allagoptera pollen...

[Alicehunter2000]

Bad news to report.....just got finished cracking open about 20 more seeds nothing but wood and some that looked like this. Remember I did not pollinate these seeds so I am still hopefull that it is possible since I found that one.....anyways I think it would be a waste of time and money to try and send these to you all. I got spathes opening constantly so I will try and intentionally pollinate some in the future. Sorry everyone.