washintonia robusta Washingtonia Robusta

[Jeff Searle]

Welcome to PalmTalk, Richard. I like your passion and hope you stick with it. BTW...not too long ago I was up in Lima visiting.

[RobustaEnvirons]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Searle said:

Welcome to PalmTalk, Richard. I like your passion and hope you stick with it. BTW...not too long ago I was up in Lima visiting.

Thank you for the warm welcome! I really love palm trees, and have ever since I was young. I sure will stick with it! I don't think I could ever stop loving palms. They've just always fascinated me with their grace, elegance, how green they are, and etc. 

Lima isn't too far away from where I'm from. I've been there, its a pretty cool town. And I remember it having big hills (most all of NW Ohio is flat as a pancake). Its a decent size town too. Its about 2 hours south I believe (down I-75). Awesome! That was sure a ways for you to drive up from Florida.    

Edited November 23, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[PalmatierMeg]

You will learn, as I did, that palms thrive in many climates, from dry and hot to chilly and wet. There are palms that love Cali but are impossible to grow in FL: Jubaea, Dictyocaryum, Ceroxylon, Trachycarpus, Juania, cloud forest Chamaedoreas, Rhopalostyis, almost all Braheas and my personal favorite, Lepidorrachis. Many Dypsis, i.e., decipiens, baronii and most large Dypsis hate our sweltering hot summers. Usually they need chilly nights (40s, 50s) as relief for hot days but they never get that in FL. Many people who don't live here believe the FL climate is non-stop benign sunny days. But our 6-7 month summers are as brutal in their way as winters in Ohio. That's why many people  come here only in winter. The sun burns you year round.

Some Phoenix (date) palms do well: sylvestris, pygmy, reclinata. Be aware that date palms are ferociously armed with long, sharp spines, which are modified leaves. I've been stabbed and slashed and it hurts.

I suggest you invest in a good comprehensive palm book with lots of photos. My favorite is Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms by Riffle, Craft, et. al. Because you plan to move to FL soon (or even if you aren't), consider joining the IPS. My 2 cents.

[RobustaEnvirons]

45 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

You will learn, as I did, that palms thrive in many climates, from dry and hot to chilly and wet. There are palms that love Cali but are impossible to grow in FL: Jubaea, Dictyocaryum, Ceroxylon, Trachycarpus, Juania, cloud forest Chamaedoreas, Rhopalostyis, almost all Braheas and my personal favorite, Lepidorrachis. Many Dypsis, i.e., decipiens, baronii and most large Dypsis hate our sweltering hot summers. Usually they need chilly nights (40s, 50s) as relief for hot days but they never get that in FL. Many people who don't live here believe the FL climate is non-stop benign sunny days. But our 6-7 month summers are as brutal in their way as winters in Ohio. That's why many people  come here only in winter. The sun burns you year round.

Some Phoenix (date) palms do well: sylvestris, pygmy, reclinata. Be aware that date palms are ferociously armed with long, sharp spines, which are modified leaves. I've been stabbed and slashed and it hurts.

I suggest you invest in a good comprehensive palm book with lots of photos. My favorite is Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms by Riffle, Craft, et. al. Because you plan to move to FL soon (or even if you aren't), consider joining the IPS. My 2 cents.

I've always thought Florida has cooler temps (with minimal humidity) from late October-Mid March. And hotter temps (with a lot of Humidity) from late March-Mid October? People have told me the summers in Florida are brutally hot and humid and its miserable, but the Winters are nice and tolerable. This would fall inline with what you've said about people only coming for the winter I guess. I've actually heard that Florida gets quite a lot of rain, and that Arizona gets more sunshine per year. But, I still prefer to call Florida "The Sunshine" state myself.

Thank you for the heads-up about the Phoenix (date) palms. I don't plan on getting one any time soon, so I think I'm okay (I've run out of room). 

I'll defiantly check into a palm book in the near future, thank you for the suggestion. Thank you for all the info. I appreciate it very much. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Pygmy date palms (still have sharp thorns), but are the right size for indoors.  And they are rather pretty.  Here they are used everywhere, rather like junipers or yews in the Midwest, so they we get tired of seeing them.  They will still get mites in winter though.  

[RobustaEnvirons]

16 minutes ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Pygmy date palms (still have sharp thorns), but are the right size for indoors.  And they are rather pretty.  Here they are used everywhere, rather like junipers or yews in the Midwest, so they we get tired of seeing them.  They will still get mites in winter though.  

What's with many of the palms having saw-tooth thorns or spines on them? W. Robusta has them, W.Filifera has them, CIDPs have spines. I'm sure there are many more that have something that can hurt you. Its weird. Other trees (regular trees) such as Oak, and Maple don't have anything like that.    

[Brad Mondel]

It's a defense mechanism to provide protection against animals trying to reach the delicious and edible bud or "Palm heart" held within the crown. 

[RobustaEnvirons]

10 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

It's a defense mechanism to provide protection against animals trying to reach the delicious and edible bud or "Palm heart" held within the crown. 

Oh, okay. That makes sense then. 

[RobustaEnvirons]

I'm just curious but, would anyone on this forum know what these Palms are? They all live indoors at my local mall. I've admired them for years, but have never been able to find the name or anything about them. They are magnificent though. They're tall, a nice green, and majestic. I'm pretty sure they are a tropical palm and not a Desert/Mediterranean, that's pretty much all I can conclude. My favorite thing to do on my days off work is to just go to the mall and sit under these palms (they've got chairs underneath) and study them, admire them, pay attention to their details, and wonder at how long they have until they reach the ceiling.    

Edited November 23, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[Brad Mondel]

Looks like a shade stretched Adonidia. 

[RobustaEnvirons]

10 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

Looks like a shade stretched Adonidia. 

So they're are being stretched out by the shade? They aren't getting enough sunlight? They have those big sky lights across the whole roof. And I think the lights that come on automatically (inset lighting in the ceiling) starting in the evening are sunlamps. 

They are quite splayed out and decently tall. I would say at least 10-15 feet tall. 

[Brad Mondel]

All sun loving palms that aren't growing in direct sunlight will stretch in order to absorb more light. They're not as robust and compact as sun grown palms. 

[PalmatierMeg]

SW FL gets 80-90% of its rain from mid-June to mid-Oct., usually from thunderstorms and the occasional tropical storm or hurricane. Winters are warm/cool and dry except for the rare rain front. I've gone around 6 weeks with no rain at all. The east coast and interior get more rain than I do. Rainy season starts there sooner and ends later. This fall has been weird as heat and humidity carried far into Nov. Today (53/71) was the coolest day I've had in 7-8 months. The main bummer about winter here (sometimes) is arctic freezes that blast down from the pole to deliver knockout cold - there are no east-west mountain ranges to block those fronts. In 2010 I lost 3 dozen species of tropical palms. My bad, because against all common sense and book learning I believed I could grow Arecas, Euterpes, Hydriasteles , Pinangas, etc. in the ground. If I cared enough and tried harder I could envelop them in a cozy virtual blanket of warmth - NOT. Big wakeup call. You will probably read a recitation of worry, woe and temp readings in the weather subforum until next spring. Then our members south of the equator will take over the winter watch.

The Adonidias in your mall photos are quite common in shopping center up north (where they may be called "manila palms"). They are one of the most cold sensitive species, on a par with coconuts. In 2010 Cape Coral lost most of its overplanted Adonidias, which can be weedy, when the low went to 28.5F. Those that survived didn't flower or seed for 2 years. That was actually a good thing.

Most palms are not armed with spines but Phoenix and Washies are.

[RobustaEnvirons]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

SW FL gets 80-90% of its rain from mid-June to mid-Oct., usually from thunderstorms and the occasional tropical storm or hurricane. Winters are warm/cool and dry except for the rare rain front. I've gone around 6 weeks with no rain at all. The east coast and interior get more rain than I do. Rainy season starts there sooner and ends later. This fall has been weird as heat and humidity carried far into Nov. Today (53/71) was the coolest day I've had in 7-8 months. The main bummer about winter here (sometimes) is arctic freezes that blast down from the pole to deliver knockout cold - there are no east-west mountain ranges to block those fronts. In 2010 I lost 3 dozen species of tropical palms. My bad, because against all common sense and book learning I believed I could grow Arecas, Euterpes, Hydriasteles , Pinangas, etc. in the ground. If I cared enough and tried harder I could envelop them in a cozy virtual blanket of warmth - NOT. Big wakeup call. You will probably read a recitation of worry, woe and temp readings in the weather subforum until next spring. Then our members south of the equator will take over the winter watch.

The Adonidias in your mall photos are quite common in shopping center up north (where they may be called "manila palms"). They are one of the most cold sensitive species, on a par with coconuts. In 2010 Cape Coral lost most of its overplanted Adonidias, which can be weedy, when the low went to 28.5F. Those that survived didn't flower or seed for 2 years. That was actually a good thing.

Most palms are not armed with spines but Phoenix and Washies are.

See, I actually like the Florida weather you describe for Summer and Winter. I could live with that. It'll be nice when I can move there (Orlando area). This year has been different for those of us up north as well. It is an El-Nino year after all. El-Nino has been very kind to us here in NW Ohio, with warm 50F & 60F degree temps in November and decent amounts of sunny days. Usually we have temps in the 20s & 30s by early November with next to no sunny days. Its supposed to be 60F on Thanksgiving here in NW Ohio with rainstorms at that! That's not bad considering today it didn't break 35F.  

I'm sorry to hear about your palm dying. That has to be hard to take, especially after so much hard work. It seems (as much as I really hate to admit it) Florida really isn't a real Tropical environment. I know Miami is actually a true Tropic environment though. But, most of Florida is classified as Subtropical and hearing from you, it seems to express this occasionally. I wish all of Florida would be a true Tropical Environment were you don't have to really worry about Arctic freezes and cold snaps. Its depressing to know I could have a backyard full of gorgeous palms for 20 years only for an arctic freeze to come in and wipe them all out. That's a lot of investment in money and time to have and then be killed off. I makes me sad. So you didn't feel like attempting to protect them in anticipation? Are you now protecting your palms? 

Around here we have 1 indoor shopping mall remaining (the 2 others we have are actually outdoor shopping malls), and only there can you see those palms. We don't have many malls around here in NW Ohio, let alone with palm trees in them. That's why its such a treat to go see them whenever I can. Its actually impressive that they have grown them in the mall since, that must mean that the mall hasn't dropped its indoor temperature down too much since at least the time they've been growing. I'm surprised that the mall has been able to emulate the light and temp requirements of the Adonidias. Its gets cold here (unfortunately) in a normal winter and in the best of building there are often drafts. How old would you say these Adonidias are? I myself can only really remember the palms specifically far back as 2005 (this mall underwent a huge remodel from 2002-2005).     

28.5 isn't all that cold, its too bad Cape Coral lost its Adonidias. But, I suppose for that species it makes for a challenge. W. Robusta is hardy to 18-20F I believe and W. Filifera to 15F (dry). This is a very big forum with a lot of palm experts it seems. I greatly appreciate your taking the time to read and respond to my posts. It looks like I came to the right place for people who love palms like us. Until recently I didn't know this forum existed. Its awesome. I do plan on joining the IPS when I move to Florida and can dig into palms a little more.    

 

[cm05]

On November 20, 2015 at 10:27:45 PM, RobustaEnvirons said:

Geez, that sounds like it's growing wildly fast. I wish I could see that kind of growth out of my Robustas. Then again, I only bought them in August/September (the end of the growing season). They took about a month to reestablish themselves too. So maybe in the spring I'll see some rapid growth from easch of them. 

I was going to try to germinate a Washy from seed, but years ago I tried that with T. Fortunei and I never got a single seed to do anything. So much money I wasted buying seeds on eBay. I was a novice trying to get the seeds to germinate. Even now I'd say I'm only at Beginner level though. That's why this time around, I figured I'd just skip to buying one already started. It's seemed like a better way to go. 

Next year they should take off. I haven't tried fortunei from seed, I've read they're slow, but Washingtonias are fast and fool proof, they'll germinate in 3 weeks. My first palm was a seed grown Washy, it died in March after I put it in the sun after a month indoors (Feb 2015 was BRUTAL here), it only had two strap leaves so it wasn't huge loss. The only other palms I've tried from seed are Phoenix dactylifera and roebelenii from seeds I collected in Florida, I had no luck with whatsoever.

[RobustaEnvirons]

On 11/24/2015, 3:10:28, cm05 said:

Next year they should take off. I haven't tried fortunei from seed, I've read they're slow, but Washingtonias are fast and fool proof, they'll germinate in 3 weeks. My first palm was a seed grown Washy, it died in March after I put it in the sun after a month indoors (Feb 2015 was BRUTAL here), it only had two strap leaves so it wasn't huge loss. The only other palms I've tried from seed are Phoenix dactylifera and roebelenii from seeds I collected in Florida, I had no luck with whatsoever.

So, you had grown your Washy indoors in a pot, then you brought it outside for a day of sunshine? If it was used to living indoors and then you brought it outside to get more sun? Why would it have disliked that? As I understand it, W. Robusta love the sunshine. I've read they can't get enough. I would imagine that if you brought it outside for a summer day's full sunshine (after growing always indoors), it would love it. That's what I'd assume anyhow. Their native environment of Northern Mexico/California has sunshine every single day! That's crazy that yours died. I'm sorry. 

That bites that it died for you after all that work. I'm glad you mentioned this, since I was thinking of moving my Robustas out into my sunroom once warm Spring/Summer weather gets here. They've grown right here on my bay window all this time and have done quite well. Now you have me worried if I move them out to the sunroom they may go into shock or die. It'd be nice to set them outside here and there during bright sunny summer days this summer too.

Would this hurt (or kill it)? I'm not saying I'd keep them out there, only just for a day or two, to get a whole lot of sun at once to encourage rapid growth. Around here in NW Ohio; June, July, and August are sun filled months that are amazing. I'd like to take advantage of them if possible.

Are you suggesting that I've got to keep my Robustas indoors always (since I've grown them til now indoors), and that I can't move them to another location?   

Edited November 26, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[knell]

Plants live on a much slower timescale than us, it is not in their nature to move from one extreme to the next.

Most people underestimate how dark it is indoors, and how bright it is outdoors. Going from one to another overnight is a drastic metabolic gear shift for any plant, sun loving or not. There are many techniques for sun conditioning palms, see which one suits your preference. :]

[PalmatierMeg]

Most homes, esp. in northern climates, are dark because smaller windows and lower ceilings mean less heat loss in winter. People often have heavy drapes that they keep closed to hold in heat. Centrally heated homes have ridiculously low humidity. When I lived in VA my fingertips would develop ugly and painful cracks because of dryness.

Even sun loving palms that have been cooped up all winter need to be introduced to sun gradually to avoid sunburn. Start them in dappled shade/sun for a couple weeks, then move them to early morning sun for a while, finally to afternoon then all day sun.

[RobustaEnvirons]

33 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Most homes, esp. in northern climates, are dark because smaller windows and lower ceilings mean less heat loss in winter. People often have heavy drapes that they keep closed to hold in heat. Centrally heated homes have ridiculously low humidity. When I lived in VA my fingertips would develop ugly and painful cracks because of dryness.

Even sun loving palms that have been cooped up all winter need to be introduced to sun gradually to avoid sunburn. Start them in dappled shade/sun for a couple weeks, then move them to early morning sun for a while, finally to afternoon then all day sun.

Ok, cool. Thank you for the advice. These are my first Robustas, so I wasn't sure. My Bay Window is actually a pretty large window that reaches up to the ceiling. I keep both Robustas in the window at all times (we don't have drapes), so they get sunshine year-round anytime after 12:30pm until the sun goes down (on a Sunny day of course).

I'm large Robusta has begun sprouting another frond. It started with around 6 when I got it, but soon after only had 1. 

I'll definitely start them off easy and work them into full sunshine, as per your advice. Thank you, I appreciate it.  

Edited November 26, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[RobustaEnvirons]

My small Robusta. It's doing really well. It too is sprouting another frond. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[RobustaEnvirons]

This is how my small Robusta looked soon after potting it back in Aug/Sep. It has grown rapidly since. I originally bought it off eBay and it had 3 leaves. 2 browned and I trimmed them off. I remained. 

[John Case]

Richard,

If you are interested, you can post a request in the Plants Wanted forum for robusta or filifera seeds or seedlings and there are a lot of people that will supply you with all you could possibly want....me included. They are truly weedlike around me and for many in CA.....

[RobustaEnvirons]

15 minutes ago, John Case said:

Richard,

If you are interested, you can post a request in the Plants Wanted forum for robusta or filifera seeds or seedlings and there are a lot of people that will supply you with all you could possibly want....me included. They are truly weedlike around me and for many in CA.....

Ok, I may just do that then. I didn't know that there was something like that on this site. I'm new here, so I'm still getting the hang of this site. 

I think I might just do that though. Now to figure out how to actually do it. Does it cost money, or are you saying they'd be kind enough to give them to me for free? I've never done anything like that. Thanks, sorry that I'm a newbie here. Haha. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[John Case]

Just now, RobustaEnvirons said:

Ok, I may just do that then. I didn't know that there was something like that on this site. I'm new here, so I'm still getting the hang of this site. 

I think I might just do have that though. Now to figure out how to actually do it. Does it cost money, or are you saying they'd be kind enough to give them to me for free? I've never done anything like that. Thanks, sorry that I'm a newbie here. Haha. 

It depends on the sender. Some will send free, some ask for postage, some want a small amount...for these, you will probably get them freesies!

[RobustaEnvirons]

1 minute ago, John Case said:

It depends on the sender. Some will send free, some ask for postage, some want a small amount...for these, you will probably get them freesies!

Awesome! I'll check into it then. 

[RobustaEnvirons]

Ever since I got my large W.Robusta I've noticed that it has a curve (or a lean) to one side. I suspect that it's due to the way I potted it in the pot back when I got it.

After getting it, one by one the fronds died off leaving only one large frond remaining. This lean became more prevalent once that happened since the only remaining frond was on one side. The Robusta also then didn't have the other fronds to counteract the weight.

I thought maybe it would grow straighter with time. It hasn't seemed to though. I did notice the trunk wiggled side to side ever-so slightly. So I kinda dug a tiny bit of soil and pushed the soil tighter and then it seemed to stand up straighter.

I also attached a bungee cord around the trunk to straighten it. Is this okay? Will the cord hurt the Robusta? Even with the cord it's still got a slight curve on the small trunk (probably due to leaning for a while like that. I only wanted to straighten it out. It has a new growth frond now by the way. I have hoped that in the future, new growth will straighten it up. I can't tell yet if the new growth frond is growing straight or is following along the direction of the other frond. 

When I potted it, I thought I read that this species always grows straight up? I have kept it so that the sun would allow it to grow straight up (like my houseplant Dracaena Marginata). I had hoped this would straighten it out. 

I'm worried that the bungee cord might hurt it though. Should I use the cord? Or, remove the cord and allow the Robusta to "straighten itself out" over time and growth? I would expect this stuff from my Houseplant Dracaena Marginata, but not from a W. Robusta. Guess I'm still learning. Lol. 

Here's how it looks with and without the bungee cord:

Edited November 28, 2015 by RobustaEnvirons

[KsLouisiana]

On 11/20/2015 at 9:38 PM, RobustaEnvirons said:

Too bad you hate them. I think they're a very nice palm tree. But, I don't have anything like that here in NW Ohio. So they don't seem very weed-like to me. 

Haha, if I weren't 3,000 miles away I would've definitely come by to get some. I would love to try some from a very young seedling (or from seed) someday. 

I have heard before that they are considered a weed in California. That they grow in the cracks of sidewalks. That's crazy! Around here the only thing that would do that would be Ailanthus Altissima (only in the Spring,Summer,and early Fall of course).

They are nice trees.  Don't listen to these haters.  Cali doesn't have wild palms or much else....so I guess they over plant the ones that won't die there... Anyways. Hope you made it to the south!

[Silas_Sancona]

38 minutes ago, KsLouisiana said:

They are nice trees.  Don't listen to these haters.  Cali doesn't have wild palms or much else....so I guess they over plant the ones that won't die there... Anyways. Hope you made it to the south!

You sure about this?   ..100% sure?  Can think of at least  2 " native " palms  within California's  floristic province..

Edited January 19, 2022 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[KsLouisiana]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

You sure about this?   ..100% sure?  Can think of at least  2 " native " palms  within California's  floristic province..

I don't know about floristic provinces... but I do know of states.  I know of one in the state.  I was just messing though.

[Emarohl]

 They may not be the LA sky dusters, but washies seem to grow pretty well here in SW FL. I’ve seen a lot of them around and some of them are quite tall. These are a few from around my neighborhood. 
 

hope you made it to Orlando!