Jubutyagrus

[PalmGuyWC]

Gary,

There must be a lot of variation in growth rates among the same crosses. My Jubaea X Syagrus is my slowest growing hybrid, while Butia X Jubaea X (Syagrus) is one of my fastest growing. I also have a Syagrus X Jubaa and it's also slow growing.

Gary, apparently you have a Butyagrus that is not sterile. You sent some pollen from this palm to Patrick and he crossed it with a Jubaea and got an excellent seed set.

Dick

[Gtlevine]

The pollen came off one of my two enormous hybrids that are F2 xButyagrus from seed germinated off the Huntington Botanical Gardens xButyagrus which came from Merrill. I gave him a spathe from it's first flower last year. The F2 the pollen came from is from my well chronicled elevator shaft, weird xButyagrus pictured below. I emailed Patrick last week to see what is new with his hybridizations but he has not yet replied, so thanks for the news.

Here is the xF2Butyagrus

[freakypalmguy]

I'm sitting here looking at these pics and from across the room my wife looks at my computer screen and says, "That looks like it has some Jubea in it". Interesting!

[Nigel]

YES, And I would be in line at the book signing to buy the fist copy.

No no no.... second in line

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Gary, Matt,

Ahhh, so it's an F2. That might explain why the palm has viable pollen, but the mystery is, who was the daddy? I've never seen a hybrid quite like that one and Matt, I'd have to agree it sure looks like the palm might have some Jubaea mixed in it.

Dick

[Alberto]

I'm sitting here looking at these pics and from across the room my wife looks at my computer screen and says, "That looks like it has some Jubea in it". Interesting!

Intersting!!! The first thing that came up in my mind was also:"That looks like it has some Jubea in it"

[Alberto]

Hi, Tim:

There aren't enough mature XJubutyagrus around to draw many conclusions. My two mature XJubutyagrus are very heavy fruit bearers; one may bear 10,000 fruit per year, w/ NO EMBRYOS. This may have happened for ten or more years. My prediction is that they will turn out to be more consistently sterile than XButyagrus itself.

Best Wishes,

merrill

I am surprised how slow my xJubutyagrus grows compared with all the others. My Jubaea x Syagrus grows at three times the pace of the xJubutyagrus. Merrill, you should get working on a book devoted to just this group of hybrids.

Gary

I think all my 7 xJubutiagrus are a little bit slower then Butiagrus....

[TimHopper]

Gary, That F2 XButyagrus is amazing. The fact that it has viable pollen is very interesting to me. Has it produced any seeds? Tim

[fdrc65]

Hello Tim

I buyed a xJubutiagrus from you, it's a bit slow growing in my climate, my butyagrus is faster (but also older)

ciao

[Gtlevine]

Gary, That F2 XButyagrus is amazing. The fact that it has viable pollen is very interesting to me. Has it produced any seeds? Tim

Last year was the first year it flowered and I cut off all the spathes trying to get pollen for a couple of people who requested it, but the leaves are so numerous and so tightly packed together that I destroyed all the flowers trying to remove them. I only got one decent flower spathe which I sent to Patrick. This year I am leaving them on to see if it sets seeds.

As far as whether it has Jubaea in it's lineage, who knows? The seed came from the pure Huntington xButyagrus and I got two amazing plants that are totally different. The Huntington xButyagrus produces viable seed all the time, but can we determine if it self pollinates or just gets pollinated by the various plants in the garden? My plants may be self polinated xButyagrus offspring that just show a mixture of the mother palms genetics. The palm pictured does not look or feel like anything Jubaea when you see it in person, it just looks like a genetic freak. I do know of four offspring growing from the Huntington xButyagrus and they all have one thing in common, every one of them is enormous! much bigger than most xButyagrus you see, and they all have their own unique look.

GAry

[Nigel]

Gary, That F2 XButyagrus is amazing. The fact that it has viable pollen is very interesting to me. Has it produced any seeds? Tim

Last year was the first year it flowered and I cut off all the spathes trying to get pollen for a couple of people who requested it, but the leaves are so numerous and so tightly packed together that I destroyed all the flowers trying to remove them. I only got one decent flower spathe which I sent to Patrick. This year I am leaving them on to see if it sets seeds.

As far as whether it has Jubaea in it's lineage, who knows? The seed came from the pure Huntington xButyagrus and I got two amazing plants that are totally different. The Huntington xButyagrus produces viable seed all the time, but can we determine if it self pollinates or just gets pollinated by the various plants in the garden? My plants may be self polinated xButyagrus offspring that just show a mixture of the mother palms genetics. The palm pictured does not look or feel like anything Jubaea when you see it in person, it just looks like a genetic freak. I do know of four offspring growing from the Huntington xButyagrus and they all have one thing in common, every one of them is enormous! much bigger than most xButyagrus you see, and they all have their own unique look.

GAry

I guess the possibility exists that a butygarus is ONLY compatible with Jubaea pollen ?

However were this the case I would also imagine the flower spathe would have tomentum.

In any case whatever is involved the plant seems unique ,extremely vigorous and extremely BIG.

[merrillwx]

Hi, Gary:

This is all extremely interesting! I should know this, but how do these huge F2's compare w/ the Huntington parent? Has anyone observed the proportion of fertile seed from the HBG F1? Do they give a standard proportion of germinatable seed?

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Kailua_Krish]

Gary, That F2 XButyagrus is amazing. The fact that it has viable pollen is very interesting to me. Has it produced any seeds? Tim

Last year was the first year it flowered and I cut off all the spathes trying to get pollen for a couple of people who requested it, but the leaves are so numerous and so tightly packed together that I destroyed all the flowers trying to remove them. I only got one decent flower spathe which I sent to Patrick. This year I am leaving them on to see if it sets seeds.

As far as whether it has Jubaea in it's lineage, who knows? The seed came from the pure Huntington xButyagrus and I got two amazing plants that are totally different. The Huntington xButyagrus produces viable seed all the time, but can we determine if it self pollinates or just gets pollinated by the various plants in the garden? My plants may be self polinated xButyagrus offspring that just show a mixture of the mother palms genetics. The palm pictured does not look or feel like anything Jubaea when you see it in person, it just looks like a genetic freak. I do know of four offspring growing from the Huntington xButyagrus and they all have one thing in common, every one of them is enormous! much bigger than most xButyagrus you see, and they all have their own unique look.

GAry

You said the one at Huntington makes seed all the time. Does the garden (or anyone else) ever collect them and sell them?

-Krishna

[Gtlevine]

Hi Merrill

I talked about the Huntington palm before but no worries, here is a re-cap. The HBG xButyagrus which you donated to the garden is enormous and looks like a giant coconut palm on steroids. It has always been my single favorite palm. In 1998 about 1000 seed was collected from the palm by a friend of mine, he was a volunteer at the garden. He germinated many seeds but ultimately got 25 or so palms to grow with about a dozen survivors of those to reach 15 gallon size. I have not known anyone else since, who collected and tried to germinate large quantities, but I have heard of various people collecting handfuls of seed from the ground and having success producing seedlings. Last time I was at the Huntington the xButyagrus was crowded out by overgrown garbage plants so the palm was not that visible, what a shame. My two F2's are totally different from each other. One is the weird one pictured above, the other is similar to the parent plant but still not as beautiful as your original hybrid. What I would give if you could capture that magic again and produce a similar hybrid.

I still think you need to publish a book on hybrids. What a great book and we can all give you photos of our best specimens to publish in your book???

Gary

Hi, Gary:

This is all extremely interesting! I should know this, but how do these huge F2's compare w/ the Huntington parent? Has anyone observed the proportion of fertile seed from the HBG F1? Do they give a standard proportion of germinatable seed?

Best Wishes,

merrill

[TimHopper]

My friend has one planted in his yard with 6ft of wood. Must be atleast 30 years old, planted by the Palmers in St. Petersburg. Trunk takes on an excellent corkscrew look. Will try to get photos

I would be very interested in seeing photos. Thanks

[merrillwx]

Well. you fellows have convinced me to try to crank up the mother of the Huntington XButyagrus again.

By the way, is there anyone who can sell a few seed of the Huntington XButyagrus?

The mother of the Huntington XButyagrus is very hard to get at.

I'm going to get the lay of the land and see what I can do.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited September 4, 2010 by merrillwx

[TimHopper]

Does anyone have a photo of the Huntington XButyagrus. I have seen photos before, but not recently. Tim

[merrillwx]

This observation is of a VERY small sample, i. e. TWO XJubutyagrus. My impression is that they grow faster than XButyagrus when released. I stunted mine by keeping them in pots until I decided their permanent location, after which they grew faster than XButyagrus in my opinion.

Sincerely yours,

merrill

[PalmGuyWC]

Has anyone tried crossing Syagrus or Butia with Lytocaryum? I believe it is possible.

Dick

[Kailua_Krish]

Has anyone tried crossing Syagrus or Butia with Lytocaryum? I believe it is possible.

Dick

There are pictures of a Lytogrus (lytocaryum x syagrus) somewhere on the board. I believe they were taken in an australian garden.

-Krishna

[ricky]

i was just about to ask this same question Dick iv seen the cross with syagrus but would be interested to know if Lytocaryum has been crossed with butia or even jubaea that could be one strange looking palm

ricky

[Gtlevine]

I have an F2 xLytoagrus in my garden that is getting close to flowering size. I will try the pollen on Butia when it flowers.

[PalmGuyWC]

Ricky,

I would never say never, but Jubaea is kind of difficult to cross with any other species except Butia or Bujubaea. One of the problems is that Lytocaryum produces such little pollen. I think it's much more possible to cross it with Butia. Seems I did read something about a Lytocaryum X Syagrus cross. Lytocaryums are very rare in N. Calif. but I've seen nice ones in Hawaii, and I expect that there are some nice ones growing along the coast in S. Calif.

Gary, I just saw your post pop up. Do you have a pic of your F2 XLytoagrus?

Dick

[Mark Heath]

Ricky,

I would never say never, but Jubaea is kind of difficult to cross with any other species except Butia or Bujubaea. One of the problems is that Lytocaryum produces such little pollen. I think it's much more possible to cross it with Butia. Seems I did read something about a Lytocaryum X Syagrus cross. Lytocaryums are very rare in N. Calif. but I've seen nice ones in Hawaii, and I expect that there are some nice ones growing along the coast in S. Calif.

Gary, I just saw your post pop up. Do you have a pic of your F2 XLytoagrus?

Dick

Hello Dick,

Bill Dickenson has a massive Lytoagrus Dickensonii, it was named after him. He lives in Cali and is a very nice guy.

I have seen pics from Pras at his home. He even was kind enough to send me a cpl of seeds but they did'nt germinate.

My S.Schizophylla X Queen has 3 first spaths, so i plan on using the pollen on Butia next year, but i also plan on seeing if it produce viable seed.

That will be a cool cross IMO. Here is a pic of the S.Montgomeryana.

[Alberto]

Has anyone tried crossing Syagrus or Butia with Lytocaryum? I believe it is possible.

Dick

I crossed my Lytocarrium with queen. A very good seed set but I could not germinate them. (baggy method with vermiculite) There was mould formed on a lot of ´´seed pores´´ forming clumps. I don´t know if the mould was really the problem .....

I tried the Lytocarium pollen on Butia eriospatha with zero seed set.

[Rafael]

Tim, my palms just arrived, in very good conditions! Thanks!

What were your light/shade conditions with these little guys?

[TimHopper]

Rafael, I'm glad that they arrived in good shape. I would keep them in just partial sunlight for a few weeks until they become acclimated to your climate. Once they have started growing they should appreciate full sun. I think they will be hardy to about 14f or -10C once established 2-3 years old.

[TimHopper]

A few photos of my largest XJubutyagrus. They have started growing a little faster since the weather has cooled. Tim

[TimHopper]

The 340 XJubutyagrus that I made a couple of years ago have been distributed around the world. I decided to make some more. My Jubutia opened a spathe 9 days ago, and after emasculation the female flowers are now receptive to pollen. In the photos you can see the small yellow flower petals are open and weeping nectar. There is a fresh Syagrus Rom. inflourescence (from my favorite) hanging just above the Jubutia flowers. I give the the syagrus infl. a shake several times daily to create a pollen cloud. The female flowers are generally receptive for about 3 days.

[brett]

The jubutyagrus i got from you a few months is growing nicely and on its second pinnate (seperated) frond. Looking forward to test its cold tolerance in few years.

[maesy]

From the three Jubutyagrus I got from you last year I gave one away. From the other two one seem to be a Jubutia F3, because it grows much shorter leaves, seems to get a fatter stem and is going pinnate earlier than the other one.

Marcel

Edited July 3, 2011 by maesy

[Adam from Oz]

WOW!

Just took me almost two and a half hours to read this entire thread. I laughed, I cried, my jaw dropped a lot..

There is so much amazing material in here - some stunning palms (and a few weird ones) and some good science.

I look forward to the big screen adaptation

Cheers,

Adam

[TimHopper]

Yes, It has become Palmtalk's "War and Peace"

[TimHopper]

Follow-up photo to pollination of Jubutia above (post 549) probably got 90% seed set using my favorite syagrus pollen. Should have XJubutyagrus fruit ripening soon.

[Adam from Oz]

Follow-up photo to pollination of Jubutia above (post 549) probably got 90% seed set using my favorite syagrus pollen. Should have XJubutyagrus fruit ripening soon.

Woof!

This thread cannot die! There's too much great stuff in it. It has plot and character development.

Cheers,

Adam

[grant b.]

Being new to the forum, I assigned myself the obligatory "War and Peace" read. What a great thread. If you haven't read this one, give your brain some exercise...

[TimHopper]

This is my latest photo of the largest Jubutyagrus that I have. I am planting it in the ground this week.

[Mark Heath]

This is my latest photo of the largest Jubutyagrus that I have. I am planting it in the ground this week.

SWEET!!!

[tank]

Looking good Tim.

I planted one of mine out last summer. Thing will take off at this stage, as expected.

[tresuz]

This is my latest photo of the largest Jubutyagrus that I have. I am planting it in the ground this week.

Tim, are you producing any more of these for sale? I bought one from you last year and it is still in a pot, but I plan on planting it out this year and would like to have a "spare" as insurance in my climate!

Trent