Jubutyagrus

[HKO2008]

Dear mister Wilcox,

i found the first photo in a photo album of Tim Hopper. In that same photo album i found the second photo as well. I don't know of anybody having such a big jubutiagrus or bujubyagrus. I might be totally wrong. Do you maybe have an idea about where it could be taken? I believe the first photo is jubutiagrus or bujubyagrus. Is that correct?

Henri

Edited November 25, 2008 by HKO2008

[merrill]

Hi, Henri:

The easy question is, "What does [did?] Tim say about the first photo?" Where was it posted [printed]? Can you give us a citation? Hard to tell in that photo whether the first photo is XButyagrus or XJubutyagrus. Can you send me seed [preferably open] or photos of seed or inflorescence?

It is difficult to see how it could be XJubutyagrus considering its apparent great age.

In sum, how about more info?

Best Wishes,

merrill

[HKO2008]

Hello mister Wilcox,

i don't have any more information. I found the photo album online and the two photo's were in the same album. The album title is 'Butyagrus'. The album URL is Butyagrus 1.

Therefore my last question in my first mail "am i wrong". I could be wrong ofcourse but to me it looks a lot like jubutiagrus or butyagrus. If it isn't i am curious what it is. As are you.

Henri

Edited November 26, 2008 by HKO2008

[merrill]

Hi, Henri:

I'm pretty illiterate with computers. How may I access to "The album URL is Butyagrus 1"

I agree it fits the description of XButyagrus pretty well.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[HKO2008]

Hello mister Wilcox,

you can simply click on 'Butyagrus 1' and the url/link will open. Or copy and paste the following link in the browser address http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Tim.../Butyagrus%201/

There you will find photo's of butyagrusses (ofcourse) but also the two photo's i posted.

Maybe i should simply send a PM to mister Hopper and ask about this photo.

Greetings,

Henri

Edited November 26, 2008 by HKO2008

[HKO2008]

I did send mister Hopper a PM and asked about this photo.

Interesting mistery.

Henri

[Jon T]

I did send mister Hopper a PM and asked about this photo.

Interesting mistery.

Henri

The first photo is from Huntington Gardens in Pasadena. I believe it is labeled x butiagrus. It may be one usually credited to Merrill.

Jon T

[merrill]

Hi, Henri & Jon:

I haven't seen the XButyagrus given to Huntington B. G. for many years. The most recent photos showed it in quite crowded conditions - difficult to reconcile with Mr. Hoppers XButyagrus in quite open space. Hope someone can resolve this puzzle.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[HKO2008]

Dear Merrill and Jon,

i am waiting for an answer from mister Hopper. Is it labeled as xButyagrus? It looks more like xJubutyagrus of Bujubyagrus. It is a beautifull palm whatever the outcome.

Henri

Edited November 27, 2008 by HKO2008

[edbrown_III]

Henri,

the only Jubutyagrus I saw in the photos is the large palm by Merri by Merrills mail box-- ther are some Cycas taitugensis in the back ground --- the rest of th e photos are Butyagrus around Florida and other places as well as Hoppers progeny.

Best regards,

Ed

[TimHopper]

Henri,

the only Jubutyagrus I saw in the photos is the large palm by Merri by Merrills mail box-- ther are some Cycas taitugensis in the back ground --- the rest of th e photos are Butyagrus around Florida and other places as well as Hoppers progeny.

Best regards,

Ed

Ed is right. The xJubutyagrus is one of Merrill's and the second photo was taken by Gary LeVine and is reported as being the Huntington xButyagrus also created by Merrill.

[NCpalmqueen]

Merrill

Every time I see pics of your xjubutiagrus, I get excited. It is such a lovely palm. Are there many more that old anywhere?

I have two small ones from Patrick. I can't wait to plant one of them but I will wait for another year yet.

[merrill]

Hi, Cindy:

The XJubutyagrus in the photo is a better specimen than the contemporary sister in Forest Grove [i. e., Alachua] which was planted out several years later, but the Alachua specimen is also attractive. Don't know of any other XJubutyagrus even approaching these two in size.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited December 2, 2008 by merrill

[HKO2008]

Thanks all, and mister Hopper, for clarifying the palms in de photo's.

De xButyagrus is a beautifull specimen. It looks more like xJubutyagrus than other Butyagrusses i have seen. Seems logical that it is a variable looking hybrid.

Is the Huntington xButyagrus, an F1 Capitata x Syagrus or not?

Henri

[merrill]

Hi, Henri:

The mother [butia] of the Huntington XButyagrus is still alive in Gainesville Florida. It is quite difficult to work with; it has VERY dense foliage near the bud. It would be nice to produce more progeny because the Huntington XButyagrus is the most fertile of all the XButyagrus in my experience.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[PalmGuyWC]

Merrill,

That Butyagrus at Huntington is a monster. It's odd that it's more fertile than the others. I have one that grew into a monster, but it, or none of my others are fertile. The large one I have is growing near a Jubaea and it's actually crowding the Jubaea, and it's hard to photograph. The trunk on it is about 2 feet in diamater and the fronds are about 18 feet long. I wish there was some way it could be cloned.

Dick

[SW_FL_Palms]

Jubaea is  a stunning palm that I would love to add to my garden, but it's just too hot and wet down here. I do have a JuButia x Butia that is growing nicely toward flowering. I hope to introduce syagrus R. pollen when the time is right to hopefully produce JuButyagrus (waiting patiently while holding empty fertilizer bag)! I have some massive bonsal queens here that will be the pollen donors. The bonsal queen seeds that I got from Eric Anderson at www.seedcoseeds.com produced very bulky queens with the expanded base similar to those in topic "fat bottom girls".  Who has a large Jubutyagrus. I would love to see one. Tim

We do here in Cape Coral (Zone 10 . Original seedling from Merrill Wilcox.

Bring a good size specimen for sale at the CFPACS meeting this Saturday at Rob Branch's in Sarasota.

Email me personally, if you want to see a photo.

SW_FL_PalmCycad@hotmail.com

[Gtlevine]

Hi, Henri:

The mother [butia] of the Huntington XButyagrus is still alive in Gainesville Florida. It is quite difficult to work with; it has VERY dense foliage near the bud. It would be nice to produce more progeny because the Huntington XButyagrus is the most fertile of all the XButyagrus in my experience.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Merril, several years back you sent me a surprised gift in the mail of a seedling xButyagrus. I remember you said you used the mother of the HBG xButyagrus. This would make sense since the one you gave me has already passed up the ones I got from Tim Hopper and another source. It appears it may become the monster of the HBG plant, but I hope it winds up getting those enormous glorious leaves as well. It has oone unusual trait, very dark brown to black petioles. None of my others have this trait.

Gary

[merrill]

Hi, Gary:

Thank you for your encouraging message. I hope I haven't misunderstood you. How does this recent hybrid compare with the other F2 already in your possesion? Am I correct that you have not yet posted a photo of this one? It would be quite interesting to see it.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Gtlevine]

Hi, Gary:

Thank you for your encouraging message. I hope I haven't misunderstood you. How does this recent hybrid compare with the other F2 already in your possesion? Am I correct that you have not yet posted a photo of this one? It would be quite interesting to see it.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Let me clarify. The plant you gave me is a pure xButygrus which if I remember correctly, you used the mother Butia as you did in creating the HBG xButyagrus. It does not compare with my two F2's from the Huntington. My comparison is with all the other xButygrus I have received from various sources. The one I got from you was a good two years to three years behind in size when you sent it to me and now it has passed up all of them. It appears that it is very robust and fast growing which is very exciting. I hope it winds up similar to the HBG palm which is like a Jubaea but with 25 foot leaves. I will update my photos and repost soon.

Gary

[merrill]

Hi, Gary:

Look forward to your posts of this other XButyagrus derived from the same Butia parent as the HBG XButyagrus.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[HKO2008]

Dear Merrill and Gary,

nice to share this information. So i was correct in stating that the xButyagrus from Huntington garden looks a bit different compared to other xButyagrusses?

Regarding the dense foliage of the Capitata used by mister Wilcox, could this Capitata be a variant? Maybe a Capitata 'Odorata' or a hybrid form? 'Odorata' seems to be more cold hardy than 'normal' Capitata and also seems to be more vigorous and it has more dense foliage. That could explain things. I have no clue however and i am curious about a picture as well.

Henri

[Gtlevine]

Dear Merrill and Gary,

nice to share this information. So i was correct in stating that the xButyagrus from Huntington garden looks a bit different compared to other xButyagrusses?

Regarding the dense foliage of the Capitata used by mister Wilcox, could this Capitata be a variant? Maybe a Capitata 'Odorata' or a hybrid form? 'Odorata' seems to be more cold hardy than 'normal' Capitata and also seems to be more vigorous and it has more dense foliage. That could explain things. I have no clue however and i am curious about a picture as well.

Henri

Yes, the Huntington xButyagrus is the king and there is nothing like it. It is enormous and has a very open crown of enormous leaves. The leaflets are on a flat plane and very long. In my opinion, this is one of the most beautiful palms in the world. Unfortunately, plants around it have grown and it is now being crowded out. This palm needs to be in a clear spot to show it off.

Gary

[merrill]

Hi, Henri:

XButyagrus is notoriously variable. This cannot be emphasized enough. I haven't seen the Huntington XButyagrus in many years. Some kind souls have volunteered to try to produce more hybrid seedlings from this unique mother. To my inexpert eye, This mother seems to be simply a dense B. capitata, but Quien Sabe?

I'm reminded of the time Nigel posted a bunch of photos as a quiz of cocosoid hybrids and all of them could have been the extremely variable XButyagrus. Nigel, this is not a criticsm of you, I hope you realize I hold you in the VERY HIGHEST regard; just a commentary on the extreme variability. Given the choices, several palm lovers correctly got quite high scores!

Henri, I have a fairly current photo of this putative B. capitata mother; would you be interested in posting it for us?

Best Wishes,

merrill

[HKO2008]

Dear Merrill,

thank you for the explanation. I would be interested in posting this picture on this forum. No problem. I am anxious to see the mother. Is the dense foliage of the mother maybe also responsible for the foliage of the F2 hybrid that mr. Hopper has? I am also aware of the Butia Capitata var 'Strictior'. I guess Capitata is also very variable.

I will PM you for my private email address.

Henri

[merrill]

Hi, Henri:

The hybrids that I gave Tim are not descended from the mother of the Huntington hybrid, which palm is extremely difficult to work with. I don't have records of sending offspring of the mother of the Huntington to anyone; was quite surprised when Gary mentioned it.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Gtlevine]

Hi, Henri:

The hybrids that I gave Tim are not descended from the mother of the Huntington hybrid, which palm is extremely difficult to work with. I don't have records of sending offspring of the mother of the Huntington to anyone; was quite surprised when Gary mentioned it.

Best Wishes,

merrill

I remember you telling me Merril that was the case. Because of our extensive talk on the subject you wanted to try to duplicate the HBG xButyagrus. Of course there could have been a misunderstanding on my part, but I was pretty sure this was the case. No matter what, that palm you gave me is awesome. It is going to be a bigger and more stunning palm than most of my Butyagrus.

Gary

[merrill]

Hi, Gary:

Of course, I accept your memory W/O question! I'm very happy there are more XButyagrus w/ this ancestry. It is just that unfortunately, like a lot of other things, I don't remember. I think the community is very fortunate there is another one around. What I need now is some able-bodied assistance!

with Very Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited December 11, 2008 by merrill

[PalmGuyWC]

Gary/Merrill,

I have a butyagrus that rivals the size of the one growing at Huntington Gardens. I don't know how to move pictures around, but you can see a couple of photos of it under Travel Logs, Dick Douglas Garden, page 1. The trunk on it is about 2 feet in diamater and it's twice the size of my other Butyagrus. Unfortunately, like the one at Huntington, mine is being crowded out by a Jubaea, and it's hard to photograph.

All of my butyagrus came from the same source in Central Florida, and they were all natural hybrids. The bloom spaths on the giant are 8 feet long, but it's sterile as are the others I have.

Dick

[TimHopper]

Gary, The XButyagrus that you most recently got from Merrill sounds promising. I am looking forward to seeing some photos. Tim

[freakypalmguy]

Here is a pic from Dicks thread. His Butiagrus looks massive (Parajubea cocoides on the left). Holy cow! Look a the base, it looks like an elephants foot.

[merrill]

Hi, Dick:

Your central FL source of XButyagrus, often known as "Peanut," would have XButyagrus even more varied than mine [a much greater genetic pool], which is saying a helluva lot!

Best Wishes,

merrill

[PalmGuyWC]

Matt,

Thanks so much for posting the pic of the giant Butyagrus. I'm sorry I don't have a better picture of the crown, but it's competing with a Jubaea and some large Oaks from my neighbors property, and it's hard to photograph. Most palm people who see it think it's half Jubaea, but there were no Jubaeas growing in central Florida when I obtained it 35 years ago. I have two other Butyagrus and one looks more typical like the ones seen around Tampa and Orlando, and the other looks more Butiash.

I measured the trunk about sholder high, and it's 22 inches in diamater. I have no idea why this thing grew into such a monster palm. Patrick Schaffer has collected pollen from this palm, but it is sterile.

Dick

[Gtlevine]

I wish I could see the crown. It is as large as the HBG xButyagrus, only the second one I have seen that enormous.

Thanks for posting,

Gary

[freakypalmguy]

Dick,

You might have said it allready, but does Patrick do any hybridizing with this massive Butiagrus?

Matt

[Alberto]

Matt,

......................Patrick Schaffer has collected pollen from this palm, but it is sterile.

Dick

Yes,he said!

[PalmGuyWC]

Gary,

He's tried several times but with no success. It's sterile. If you or any of your palm buddys are visiting the SF Bay Area, you are welcome to come by anytime. I'd love to see your place sometime, but I only get down to S. Cal about once a year. It's best to visit here during the warmer months. It's darn cold here today. I'm only about 40 minutes from San Francisco, by car or BART.

I have several cocoid hybrids planted, and probably the largest Butia X Parajubaea around. I also have a number of Sabals, 4 large Jubaeas, large Trithrinax, Braheas, etc.

Dick

[PalmGuyWC]

Woops!

I ment to say Matt, but Gary, your both welcome to visit anytime. I'd like to see both of your gardens.

Dick

[Gtlevine]

Woops!

I ment to say Matt, but Gary, your both welcome to visit anytime. I'd like to see both of your gardens.

Dick

I'll take the invite, even if it is accidental. It is much better to see gardens in the warmer months, they just have a whole better look and feel, plus I just hate cold weather. So we will see about making a road trip next year.

Gary

[PalmGuyWC]

Mark,

Now that your photo savy, how about posting some pics of your Butia X Parajubaea? I'm anxious to see how much it's grown. I'm not photo savy yet, and I'm hoping someone will visit me with a camera. Mine now has a spread of about 10' and is also about the same height. (To the tips of the fonds). It's soooooo beautiful.

Dick