Why people dont like Palms?

[Mohsen]

Today we had a barbecue with our neighbors...we also talked about plants, tress and also palms...I offered to my neighbors that I can give them away some palms for free... all of them said not and when I asked why , All our neighbors had a very bad point of view about palms...when I asked how many palms do they know , all said date palms and all said they are not clean and very nuisance..when I asked them to show me one , they point to  a queen palm... which here are every where and been considered as a weed...

then I realized that one of the main reason people don't like palms here is that the only type they know is queen palm and when you talk about palms they always think about only palms...I tried hard to let them know that we have thousands types of palms and showed them few ...also I showed them some photo of different ones as well...

I am not sure how this image should be corrected for the majority here and then maybe one day we could see different beautiful palms tree here everywhere as well...

[Moose]

This question has been perplexing to me for decades.

Here are some thoughts ...

A. Like you have mentioned above, people's impressions on palms are limited to those they know and are usually over planted.

B. Most people's thoughts and bias towards palms are well imbedded.

C. People are unaware of the plethora of species that can be planted in their USDA zone

D. Lack of mature specimen palms in landscapes so their true potential can be seen

E. Some folks simply love their bland expanse of lawn.

F. There are many folks whose experience with landscaping material is limited to the big box stores.

G. Monkey see monkey do, there are many people that look to see what the neighbor's have planted so they follow suite.

H. Some people simply don't care about plants.

I. Others are just ignorant and will remain so.

J. The best way to alter other people's thinking concerning palms is to walk the walk. Grow you palms to the best of your ability. Then be ready to provide info to any and all of those who inquire when they see the beauty that palms can add to a landscape.

[dalmatiansoap]

I would ad 

K. Superstitious, believe or not many ppl here have strange ideas about planting palms in private gardens. To be fully honest by the term "palm" 99% they all think about CIDP, and we are back to Mooses A ;)!

[Yunder Wækraus]

Are you familiar with the sayings: "wealth begets wealth," and "birds of a feather flock together"? I learned the hard way that people generally live among like-minded people, and most people are dull, unimaginative dolts when it comes to floral appreciation. I lived in a USDA zone 9b part of NorCal for 3 years. My neighborhood had about 6 or 7 palm species strewn about, but 75% of plants grown could have been found in zone 8 or lower. When I started putting in palms and other tropicals, my best friend said I'd made my yard look like "an old Filipina" lady had gardened it, and he was being derogatory. (My spouse is part Filipino, so I just took it as a compliment.) When I finally moved back to my birthstate and set about planting tropical plants, all of my aunts, uncles, cousins, and neighbors complemented me on the effort. In truth, folks in Florida and SoCal appreciate evergreen tropicals. Folks elsewhere often dislike them. I think such floral bigotry is a sign of a boring personality, but I suppose I'm bigoted against non-tropical landscapes :-)

[edric]

The people who don't like palms, all have a low metabolism, the palms represent hours of endless labor, their greatest fear realized; labor, Ed

[Palms4Steve]

So true. I have found most people do not like palms. They think they are all like queen palms.

[Mohsen]

19 hours ago, Palms4Steve said:

So true. I have found most people do not like palms. They think they are all like queen palms.

Steve, funny thing was they named the Queen palm , Date palm ( because of its fruit) and they believed it is native Australian ... also when I showed them a pic of Bismarkia Palm, all of them didn't accept first that is a palm too ...

[dmc]

Not everyone likes palms ?? Sounds like your hanging with the wrong crowd 

[Pip]

I want the 1990s back, people were planting palms in almost every garden. In Adelaide people concider palms to be far to water hungry, to tender to handle intense sun and wind. 

[Palmə häl′ik]

Here in FL, I often hear folks talk about cockroaches and wasps as the turnoffs...     ...somehow over the years theyve been linked together with palms...

....palmetto bug!

Edited January 2, 2016 by Palmə häl′ik

[Moose]

1 hour ago, Palmə häl′ik said:

Here in FL, I often hear folks talk about cockroaches and wasps as the turnoffs...     ...somehow over the years theyve been linked together with palms...

....palmetto bug!

What is the most common palm in the state? Sabal palmetto. It is kinda true you will find the palmetto bug in habitat hiding amongst the old dead dried leaves. This is an area of refuge since everything wants to eat a palmetto bug in the woods, tastey and nutritious. 

This happens less in our Gardens. Frankly palmetto bugs are part of our ecosystem. As long as they remain outside. My wife freaked out the first time she saw a palmetto bug here. She is from Iowa and they don't thrive outside there, so if you got them there its a hygene issue. Its taken her years to accept that they live here - outside.

[Stevetoad]

Plant racism shows its ugly face again. :(

[Moose]

We need to be honest now. When we plant a palm its usually from a three to 15 gallon container. They are juveniles that will often take many years to look their magnificent best. All we see is the future potential of the palm since we know how beautiful it will become. To a non-palm person, a bunch of juvenile palms may not be that appealing.

This observation is related to my own experiences. Almost everything in my garden was planted from a 1, 3 or rarely 7 gallon container. I was the neighborhood nut with all the ugly little palms. Years later they are now stately specimens that draws attention. A walk about in my garden finds the canopy providing exceptional relief from the Florida hot sun. The beautiful thing about a dense planting of mature palms is that they allow breezes under the canopy as well. 

When people see this effect, then they get it. Most folks can not have such an envision nor can embark on a 10, 15 or 20 year strategy for their garden. Simply most people want instant gratification.

[nachocarl]

We looked at moving to San Elijo Hills development a few years ago and the decision not to, was quite easy for me as they have a "no tropical plants" in their CC&R's.  Apparently ALL palms are tropical water starved plants in their eyes.  Lack of knowledge about the diversity in the Order of palms is probably the main reason.  As stated above the novice is exposed to mainly Queens, Washies, and Phoenix (here in California) and that is the point of reference, but have them take a critical look and they may think otherwise.  Some just can't be bothered with palms or any plant for that matter.  To each his own; enjoy your garden, palms, and others who celebrate them.

[Silas_Sancona]

Many great points made here, Moose's in particular ring quite true.

Back in San Jose, anything beyond your usual suspects was a rare sight. Many people id speak with were stuck in the belief that most palms were/are "too tropical" or, as someone mentioned, required too much time to care for. Slowly, that mindset has been changing.. After backing out of picking up a Flamethrower id ordered one year, i watched as a customer at the nursery id worked at place it in his car and drive off.. i hope it is doing well. anyway.. I also noticed that the only  Royal i have ever seen in person back in the neighborhood i lived in is still alive according to the last street view update.

Here, while there are many more options, a similar thought process regarding palm exists. City plantings this close to the coast should have many more Buccaneers, Copernicia, etc. scratch all the Sabal and Date palms i see going in around town.

One effort i make whenever i speak to customers about their choices, is refer them to Kopsick. It is close enough, you don't have to pay a dime to wander around the park and you get to see a plethora of awesome species at various stages of growth. If even one person i have talked to takes a couple hours on a given day to walk around the park while catching lunch in downtown St. Pete, i have done my job to expand their view. There have already been a few times while up there, i talked to people about various species they were looking at. It is always interesting to note how many people stop and really look over the Lisa near where the big Cuban Petticoat sits in the park.

I wish more gardens like Kopsick had existed back in San Jose. Places like this can really help show the average person what is possible. They're close, and one can visit anytime. A great educational experience, and planting the seeds of another potential palm addiction all in one.



 

[Ben in Norcal]

31 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 I also noticed that the only  Royal i have ever seen in person back in the neighborhood i lived in is still alive according to the last street view update.

Nathan, is this royal in San Jose, CA?  Is it possible to direct me (via PM if preferred) to the street view of it?

[Silas_Sancona]

22 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Nathan, is this royal in San Jose, CA?  Is it possible to direct me (via PM if preferred) to the street view of it?

Pm sent

[DoomsDave]

Well, having planted the wrong palm in the wrong place way more times than I should have, I can understand someone feeling negative about them.

Then they see a palm garden, and, often change their minds.

So, Mohsen, make a beautiful garden and change their minds. Show them some of the pictures of some of the gardens here on PT. I've changed a mind or two.

[Yunder Wækraus]

By the way, I don't hate queen palms at all. The ones in Fairfield, CA looked great. I prefer other species (e.g. royal and coconut), but I have nothing against queens and do not think them poor ambassador pslms for the non-pslm-loving public .

[Xenon]

Maybe some people don't like the general shape of palms? Most palms are just a stick with a bundle of leaves on top...trees and shrubs generally look more "full". To be honest, I prefer a mix over the "all-palm look", it's very monotonous. Palms also have a stark/arresting/imposing look to them which can be overwhelming, "too wild", or "heavy". 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Xenon

[Bill H2DB]

11 hours ago, Palmə häl′ik said:

Here in FL, I often hear folks talk about cockroaches and wasps as the turnoffs...     ...somehow over the years theyve been linked together with palms...

....palmetto bug!

   Yup , I've heard that same stupidity many , many times .

   

[_Keith]

Palm are not for everyone, and there are a great many reasons to not like them.   We palm enthusiasts also tend to despise many plants that others like.  It is the nature of people and the source of the great quote, 'to each his own.'

[Ben in Norcal]

10 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Palm are not for everyone, and there are a great many reasons to not like them.   We palm enthusiasts also tend to despise many plants that others like.  It is the nature of people and the source of the great quote, 'to each his own.'

I was thinking to myself, no, I hate no plants.  But then I thought for a sec, and one thing that does frustrate me are all of the very water-hungry deciduous trees planted in housing developments in my neck of the woods.  Some of them are quite climate inappropriate, and looked like absolute crap this year with their water cut off, and ground water dropping.  Many dropped leaves this summer, it looked like fall in like June this year.  Some of the developments around here from the 70s and 80s were planted to sort of re-produce the flora from the northeast or midwest, and it just doesn't work in this hot, dry, climate.

So I guess I don't despise any plants, but perhaps I despise the mis-use of plants.

Then again, my Archontophoenix groves aren't going to look too good if anyone buys this house one day, and doesn't keep them watered in the summer.  

Do I despise myself then? 

[DoomsDave]

Palms are living things with their own needs.

Sometimes, those needs clash with the gardener's.

If you just have to prune something to your own idea of a perfect shape, palms are not for you. Privets, escallonia, ficus, and others are much more your speed.

Palms' glory is in their distinctive shapes, all their own. Nothing says flourish the way a palm does. Home is where the palms are, for me and the palms.

(It's okay to leave room for a rose or two. Though it's gotten harder lately.)

If you can't stand spines, for the love of dieties, humanity and sanity don't plant a Phoenix dactylifera a meter away from your front door. Or an acrocomia.

Coconuts are great, but very uncomfortable worn unexpectedly on the head of people under them. So try to plan ahead.

It's not the palms' fault if they're placed badly, without thought. (I once cussed and kicked a mis-placed Parajube tor-tor. Once.)

Gardeners' best tools are the ones between their ears, and if they don't engage that, what can be done?

Show the naysayers a line of silver Bizzies. Or Cyrtostachys renda. Or a Chambey leaf. Or, entice them to your garden while the Arenga engleri embroiders the air with its fantastic fragrance. Watch their faces go googly with disbelieve when you tell them "that's a palm tree."!

[DoomsDave]

19 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I was thinking to myself, no, I hate no plants.  But then I thought for a sec, and one thing that does frustrate me are all of the very water-hungry deciduous trees planted in housing developments in my neck of the woods.  Some of them are quite climate inappropriate, and looked like absolute crap this year with their water cut off, and ground water dropping.  Many dropped leaves this summer, it looked like fall in like June this year.  Some of the developments around here from the 70s and 80s were planted to sort of re-produce the flora from the northeast or midwest, and it just doesn't work in this hot, dry, climate.

So I guess I don't despise any plants, but perhaps I despise the mis-use of plants.

Then again, my Archontophoenix groves aren't going to look too good if anyone buys this house one day, and doesn't keep them watered in the summer.  

Do I despise myself then? 

Oh yeah.

My house, as is, is unsalable. At least for the "right" price which is obscene. I'd only get a semi-obscene price, to cover the removal of "too many palms."  Unless Mardy Darian Jr. (or III) comes along, with a stock wad from google. At least up there, you'll have googlers.  (Exhibit "A" is the Rossten place in its glory. Lust for that Royal!) That's what the brokers tell me, and I respect their professional opinion. I've had to give many an unpopular opinion in my time, doing my duty.

Alas, not everyone feels the love. Not everyone enjoys that clattery rustle of Chambey leaves on a summer's eve as the coastal breeze comes in. Or that maracca rattle of a Caryota mitis. And I suppose the "kerflomp" of big Roystonea leaves falling is not for all. But, for me, those sounds signal that all is right with the world.

So, I spread palmy love wherever I can. Send seeds to who wants them. If even a few grow and get big and make someone feel romantic, or shade from a hot sun, or even provide an epic palm heart for a wonderful occasion, I'm happy with that. Even the sorrow if they don't grow; if I can, send more.

[Pando]

8 hours ago, nachocarl said:

We looked at moving to San Elijo Hills development a few years ago and the decision not to, was quite easy for me as they have a "no tropical plants" in their CC&R's.  Apparently ALL palms are tropical water starved plants in their eyes.

Wow, we looked at houses there a few years ago, didn't think to check that at the time, but now I'm glad we found a house somewhere else. I can plant whatever I want and have a better microclimate than over there at SEH. They can keep their queens, washies, and pine trees.

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

By the way, I don't hate queen palms at all. The ones in Fairfield, CA looked great. I prefer other species (e.g. royal and coconut), but I have nothing against queens and do not think them poor ambassador pslms for the non-pslm-loving public .

Queens are my first favorite palms!

San Bernardino! 1986.

Ahem.

Still there, gorgeous, glorious, guy who lives there now said "thanks" for planting them.

 

[Pando]

Just now, DoomsDave said:

Queens are my first favorite palms!

San Bernardino! 1986.

Ahem.

Still there, gorgeous, glorious, guy who lives there now said "thanks" for planting them.

 

Nothing really wrong with queens. They can be pretty awesome if grown and trimmed properly. I still have 7 large ones, including two monsters in back holding the hammock, and their only problem is grooves in the trunk where a careless previous owner or gardener had cut into the trunk when they were pruned. The problem is they're everywhere, and they are usually over-pruned, looking ridiculous. Once they get past certain height where a 25ft pole say no longer reaches, they get expensive to maintain, and out they will come in my yard.

[DoomsDave]

Just now, Pando said:

Nothing really wrong with queens. They can be pretty awesome if grown and trimmed properly. I still have 7 large ones, including two monsters in back holding the hammock, and their only problem is grooves in the trunk where a careless previous owner or gardener had cut into the trunk when they were pruned. The problem is they're everywhere, and they are usually over-pruned, looking ridiculous. Once they get past certain height where a 25ft pole say no longer reaches, they get expensive to maintain, and out they will come in my yard.

Oh, but they're awesome when they get really huge. Like in San Bernardino.

[Mohsen]

On 1/2/2016, 2:09:54, DoomsDave said:

Well, having planted the wrong palm in the wrong place way more times than I should have, I can understand someone feeling negative about them.

Then they see a palm garden, and, often change their minds.

So, Mohsen, make a beautiful garden and change their minds. Show them some of the pictures of some of the gardens here on PT. I've changed a mind or two.

Thanks Dave,,,I have already changed my brother-in law idea about palms...he starts growing from seeds as well...mine will take years to be properly called a palm garden though but I am doing my best...also my little Bizzie has attracted some neighbors even now

[DoomsDave]

3 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Oh yeah.

My house, as is, is unsalable. At least for the "right" price which is obscene. I'd only get a semi-obscene price, to cover the removal of "too many palms."  Unless Mardy Darian Jr. (or III) comes along, with a stock wad from google. At least up there, you'll have googlers.  (Exhibit "A" is the Rossten place in its glory. Lust for that Royal!) That's what the brokers tell me, and I respect their professional opinion. I've had to give many an unpopular opinion in my time, doing my duty.

Alas, not everyone feels the love. Not everyone enjoys that clattery rustle of Chambey leaves on a summer's eve as the coastal breeze comes in. Or that maracca rattle of a Caryota mitis. And I suppose the "kerflomp" of big Roystonea leaves falling is not for all. But, for me, those sounds signal that all is right with the world.

So, I spread palmy love wherever I can. Send seeds to who wants them. If even a few grow and get big and make someone feel romantic, or shade from a hot sun, or even provide an epic palm heart for a wonderful occasion, I'm happy with that. Even the sorrow if they don't grow; if I can, send more.

oh sing one with me

 

[Mohsen]

On 1/2/2016, 3:54:31, Yunder Wækraus said:

By the way, I don't hate queen palms at all. The ones in Fairfield, CA looked great. I prefer other species (e.g. royal and coconut), but I have nothing against queens and do not think them poor ambassador pslms for the non-pslm-loving public .

I just mentioned that to state their limited/ lack of knowledge about palms...Queens are not my favorite but I don't have anything against them either  

[Moose]

4 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

oh sing one with me

 

Save your singing for the upcoming PSSC meeting. 

[Daryl]

I can understand the concern over palms in Sydney...Queen palms are everywhere in private gardens, and CIDPs in most public parks.

The downsides to Queen palms that we are all aware of is that once taller they become hard to keep clean; removing old leaves, leafbases, inflorescences etc can be difficult. A lot of Queen palm owners let them go, so they look very scrappy, and if not well watered and fertilised, they look even worse...certainly far from an attractive, easy to maintain garden plant. On top of that, the fruit attract both rats and Fruit bats. The fruit bats squabble all night long, making a real racket in your queen palm. The fruits that then fall on the ground and make their way onto footpaths or driveways become a real health hazard, with many people sliding on the 'marbles' . A well grown and maintained Queen palm is still attractive, but that would be 0.001% of all queen palms found in gardens.

We have many of them here too, and a lot look absolutely awful. They are now an outlawed species in QLD and are not allowed to be sold in nurseries...not a bad thing as there are many other much more attractive palms that can be grown here. The Queens are outlawed because the Fruit bats spread the seed and they grow wild everywhere.

As for CIDPs, they are too big or the average suburban lot and are also high maintenance.

I think it is just a matter of education. The same applies to many other plant groups...if I said to the average home owner, show me a cactus, or a pine tree they would probably all think of one or two common species and have the same reaction...

I also think that there is a lot of brainwashing going on with the 'Native Nazis' pushing more dryland species and influencing homeowners via TV gardening shows. They never mention that there are almost 60 species of native palms here, of which  a lot are tolerant of our extended dry periods and droughts...

It is strange living here in southern Queensland where palms are everywhere...the most common garden palm would be Dypsis lutescens, followed by Wodyetia and Archontophoenix, however a lot of southerners move here from colder climates and the first thing they want to do is remove the palms! Go figure!

Daryl

 

 

 

[Tyrone]

A lot of it is just pure ignorance. Many people are lazy and don't like to do anything except watch TV. The last thing they want to do is get out and do something in the garden. Hence plants mean nothing to them anyway and as already mentioned when you mention "palms" to them they go straight to some experience with a CIDP, Washingtonia, or a Queen palm that they "hated" because they had to "maintain" it somehow and that required effort and that's something they don't really like, "effort". With these sorts of people if you try and tell them of the 3000 other species out there, they will glaze over and tune out.

Personally I couldn't care less what other people think. I love em and I'll enjoy them on my own level. If anyone wants to join me then the more the merrier. 

[Pal Meir]

The Three Wise Men loved palms too:

[User00]

some people generally don't like growing trees, think  it takes  long time to grow so no point of planting 

[OverGrown]

From what I've encountered here in SoCal;

-an improperly planted queen (typically to close to a house)  will create a negative experience when the fronds and seeds drop.

-washingtonia's when unpruned look dirty and shelters undesirable animals like racoons, possums and rats

-washingtonia weeds that pop up from bird droppings that go unmanaged grow to a size that becomes expensive to remove or cause damage to masonry walls

 

However, for the most part, I find that a majority of people around here find well grown and managed palms synonymous with high end properties.

[Yunder Wækraus]

16 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I was thinking to myself, no, I hate no plants.  But then I thought for a sec, and one thing that does frustrate me are all of the very water-hungry deciduous trees planted in housing developments in my neck of the woods.  Some of them are quite climate inappropriate, and looked like absolute crap this year with their water cut off, and ground water dropping.  Many dropped leaves this summer, it looked like fall in like June this year.  Some of the developments around here from the 70s and 80s were planted to sort of re-produce the flora from the northeast or midwest, and it just doesn't work in this hot, dry, climate.

So I guess I don't despise any plants, but perhaps I despise the mis-use of plants.

Then again, my Archontophoenix groves aren't going to look too good if anyone buys this house one day, and doesn't keep them watered in the summer.  

Do I despise myself then? 

I honestly do hate a handful of plants, and absolutely hate deciduous trees. I think my hatred, however unfair, stems from the large chunk of my life I was forced to live in Stockton, CA. That place is a hell-hole for SO many reasons, but the worst one, in my mind, is the inability of the locals to appreciate the moderate climate fully. Yes, there are tons of big citrus trees and loquats all over the town, and CIDPs and both types of Washingtonias are exceedingly common. But most folks there claim they love fall colors, and whole neighborhoods (including both neighborhoods in which I lived as a kid) are planted with massive deciduous trees by the city. These trees are not native; they are water hogs; they aren't exceptionally beautiful (e.g. they don't have the future majesty of the native valley oaks); and all they do is drop a crap-ton of leaves each fall after a few weeks of half-hearted fall colors. Those crappy leaves have to be raked, obviously, and guess which little kid with allergies got to go out in the damp 50-degree weather and rake those damned things each year? Hint: he had my name ;-) 

If raking leaves isn't bad enough, the look of all those dead branches couldn't be more depressing in a 9a-9b climate where EVERYTHING could just as easily be evergreen. The first 100 years in Stockton, residents were totally different in their outlook. My grandfather built the house where my mother still lives in 1948. He had been raised at above 6,000' in the Rockies, so he thought of Stockton as a botanic heaven. He planted oranges, grapefruit, lemon, loquat, redwoods, eucalyptus, oleander, geraniums, and pomegranate. If you look at the old paintings of town or visit the oldest neighborhoods (a VERY dangerous undertaking), you'll see columnar Washingtonia filifera plantings, southern magnolias, large citrus trees, yuccas, agaves, cacti, CIDPs, redwoods, not a few bunya-bunya (or similar) pines. The city is the one that decided it wanted to look like a midwestern town in the middle of CA, and I don't believe there has been a new city neighborhood with palms for street trees in the last hundred years :-(

So, yeah, I hate certain plants, but I suppose I could forgive them if they weren't being used where they're not needed :-) 

[Yunder Wækraus]

3 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

The Three Wise Men loved palms too:

LOL--We always remind our kids that Jesus was surrounded by date palms and olive trees. 'Tweren't no Christmas trees at the first Christmas :-)