Sabal Yapa in habitat in the Yucutan

[Sabal Steve]

I had the pleasure of visiting the Yucutan and seeing lots of great palms.

Sabal Yapa is native to this region, as well as other parts of Latin America.  

Some of the taller ones must have been around 40 feet tall - maybe taller.  I have the impression that this is a slow growing palm, even in the Yucutan.

You can see a few of the seeds that I collected, and they all sink, so hopefully they'll germinate at some point.  The ones that I had collected appear to have fallen to the ground in the latter part of the last year, given that some of the specimens that I saw in habitat were just beginning to form seed.  Also, it appears that these don't begin to seed until they have a good bit of height, at perhaps around 10' - 12' clear trunk, which made collecting seeds difficult.

A friend gave me a bunch of seed a few years ago, but I think that I gave most of them away.  Maybe someone still has a few stragglers out there that they'll return to poppa:)

[Vinc]

Great photos of stunning palms! I never saw photos of S. yapa in habitat before. Thank you Steve!

[Mandrew968]

You sure that's not mauritiiformis? I saw a silver backed leaf on the juveniles...

[Stevetoad]

Great pics Steve!

[Sabal Steve]

3 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

You sure that's not mauritiiformis? I saw a silver backed leaf on the juveniles...

I'm no expert, I just play one on tv.

But, I believe that mauritiformis may retain the silver underneath longer, where yapa seems I lose it around the time that full size character leaves start to develop.  I think that the strong costa is the giveaway for yapa.  I believe that the leaflet grouping is different.  I don't have a key to refer to right now, but I think that a positive id could be reached given the inflorescense.  I believe that S. mauritiformis has a flatter, more disheveled leaf.  

I had a 15 gallon mauritiformis as well, that had a less glaucous, more yellow leaf (on top).  It still had silver undersides, but had a greater number of leaflet groupings.

Also, I sold a 15 gallon plant that I bought as a seedling as yapa from Jungle Music that was identical to the seedlings pictured above.

[PalmatierMeg]

Great habitat photos, Steve. I saw S. yapa during a jungle walk on Cozumel several years ago. None were seeding.

[Sabal Steve]

14 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Great habitat photos, Steve. I saw S. yapa during a jungle walk on Cozumel several years ago. None were seeding.

Thanks Meg!

Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to make it to Cozumel, but I collected the seeds between Playa de Carmen and Cancun, right off of Hwy 307. The pics were from about 10 miles outside of Cancun's city center.  They were growing in soil with a high concentration of limestone, which I imagine is quite similar to South Florida.

[MattyB]

6 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

You sure that's not mauritiiformis? I saw a silver backed leaf on the juveniles...

You're the south floridian, so I know you've seen a lot more of these than I, but pics 4 and 5 in the first post clearly show the young leaves going costapalmate at an early stage, which from what I've seen, is a clear sign of S. yapa.  S. mauritiformis seems to have a flat Licuala looking leaf when it's young.

[Palmaceae]

Great pictures, I love habitat pictures, thanks for sharing.

[tinman10101]

thank you for posting steve.  habitat pics are always a great treat.  i have one in the ground that is so slow and puts out about 1.5 leaves per growing season.  it does take extreme cold really well.

i would concur with matt.  i have both plants and there is a markedly difference in the costa-palmate characteristics at an early age in the yapa that i have experienced.  the mauritiformis is much flatter and leaf (spoke) separation is very pronounced too. both yapa and mauritiformis is the same age and are about 6 years from 2 leaf seedling.

tin

[Josh-O]

9 hours ago, MattyB said:

You're the south floridian, so I know you've seen a lot more of these than I, but pics 4 and 5 in the first post clearly show the young leaves going costapalmate at an early stage, which from what I've seen, is a clear sign of S. yapa.  S. mauritiformis seems to have a flat Licuala looking leaf when it's young.

18,001 posts and still going strong...

[Sabal Steve]

Josh, 

 

How's yours doing?  You got a spot picked out?

[Mandrew968]

23 hours ago, MattyB said:

You're the south floridian, so I know you've seen a lot more of these than I, but pics 4 and 5 in the first post clearly show the young leaves going costapalmate at an early stage, which from what I've seen, is a clear sign of S. yapa.  S. mauritiformis seems to have a flat Licuala looking leaf when it's young.

Just checked two 3 gallon mauritiiformis and they have a very costapalmate leaf. I think they look more Licuala when they get large...

[Mandrew968]

Both...

[MattyB]

I see what you mean but kinda seems to early to tell.  I seem to remember the characteristic showing itself clearly once the first full character/palmate leaf came out.  Is there a possibility that you actually have S. yapa pictured there?

[Sabal Steve]

12 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

Both...

 

8 hours ago, MattyB said:

I see what you mean but kinda seems to early to tell.  I seem to remember the characteristic showing itself clearly once the first full character/palmate leaf came out.  Is there a possibility that you actually have S. yapa pictured there?

Andrew, 

I think you may have two Sabal mauritiformis.  What do you think based on the pictures below?

Here's a picture of one I had in a 15 gallon.

 

Mauritiformis on right, yapa on left.

Next two are yapa.  Identical to the habitat photos.  

Here's a large plant at a local botanical garden named S. yapa.  Looks just like the ones in habitat (it's in more shade).  

 

I've been confused with these for years, but they're really quite different at all stages, even as seedlings where yapa emerges as a glaucous blue, and mauritiformis emerges as a more of a lime green.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabal Steve]

Here's a great threat that Alex posted from the same region.  I feel his id's are spot on.  Perhaps he'll chime in.

 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/39565-sabal-mauritiiformis-and-sabal-yapa-in-habitat-with-ancient-mayan-backdrop/

[Mandrew968]

14 hours ago, MattyB said:

I see what you mean but kinda seems to early to tell.  I seem to remember the characteristic showing itself clearly once the first full character/palmate leaf came out.  Is there a possibility that you actually have S. yapa pictured there?

Anything is possible, however I have never knowingly collected yapa seed-not that I wouldn't, just have not had the chance. I don't know who is right-not really about that... More just getting to maybe understand these plants better.

[NatureGirl]

Sabal yapa and S. mauritii do look similar, I have both mature specimens in my yard. Here's a pic of Sabal yapa, note the pic of just the trunk, it is not smooth at all, like other sabal after they loose their boots. But instead is 'chopped' looking.

[Sabal Steve]

3 hours ago, NatureGirl said:

Sabal yapa and S. mauritii do look similar, I have both mature specimens in my yard. Here's a pic of Sabal yapa, note the pic of just the trunk, it is not smooth at all, like other sabal after they loose their boots. But instead is 'chopped' looking.

How old is your palm?  Would you happen to have a picture of your mauritiformis as well (or any of your Sabals for that matter)?  Which one do you find to be faster?  Any general takeaways?

Thank you for sharing!

[NatureGirl]

Here ya go Steve,

A Pic of my Sabal mauritiiformis, showing some magnesium deficiency in my sandy soil. S. yapa doesn't have this problem. Sabal mauritii has a slimmer trunk, that is a little 'chopped' looking but not anything like yapa. Also, because of the slimmer trunk, and heavy head, S. mauritii has large vertical cracks in the trunk from hurricanes Frances & Jeanne in 2004? (I think it was). These two palms were planted from a tall 5 gal pot at the same time, and both grew quickly until they matured. Unfortunately for all the years S. yapa has been blooming, it never sets viable seeds, but S. mauritii does every year.

[Mandrew968]

Sabal yapa to compare... I personally don't think there is much noticeable difference...

[Sabal Steve]

Aside from the color, and the fullness/shape of the crown, the yapa leaves have a cupping to them.  But, yes, as small plants they can be difficult to discern.  Also, i suspect that your plants are in more shade, making Id's even tougher.  Top 2 mauritiformis, bottom 2 yapa.

 

[Sabal Steve]

The sun was a little harsh, but here are a few of the S. mauritiformis at Fairchild.