nice Ficus benghalensis in New Smyrna Beach, northernmost Banyan in Florida?

[Eric in Orlando]

I was in New Smyrna Beach this past weekend. I haven't been there in awhile over on the beach side. Along Flagler Ave. at Peninsula Ave. is a good sized mature Ficus benghalensis. I was really amazed to see it so big. It made me think and wonder if this is the northernmost Banyan specimen in Florida. 

New Smyrna Beach is about 50 miles NE of Orlando, between Cape Canaveral and Daytona Beach. This Banyan Tree is growing beachside on the barrier island which is zone 9b and probably borderline 10a. NSB is in southern Volusia County. Southern Volusia is the northern range for some of the tropical native species like red mangrove, strangler fig, seagrape, gumbo limbo, and buttonwood. Driving around I saw some decent sized Ficus aurea, F. elastica and F. lutea. Also some young coconuts but no older, trunking specimens. I think they were all killed in 2009-10 except for a nice one along Flagler Ave. A pic of it has been posted on Palmtalk before. It has coconuts on it now. I also saw nice size mango trees.

So does anyone know of a mature Ficus benghlanesis north of NSB? Or a "banyan"-type like F. altissima, etc.?

 

 

[The Silent Seed]

That's a beauty. 

Mine is not mature - but it is in zone 5b :) 

[Bill H2DB]

  I know that tree well. ( I'm the one that posted the Cocos from down the street previously.)

This Ficus has been flattened in the past by freezes ,but is looking great currently. 

In Daytona Beach there are a few Benghalensis , that reach nearly this size between freezes , and there are a couple

of large Elastica's also , and a quite nice Aurea ( I think) in Ormond as well .

   Many moons ago also , I remember seeing a Ficus of some sort , way up at Washington Oaks State Park , that was leaning

out over a spring there .

    A long time ago , there was also a large Moreton Bay Fig , on the street just south of Dent Smith's house .

The most outstanding Banyan that we had hereabouts was within the large central courtyard of the long gone Princess Issena Hotel, which 

was on Seabreeze Blvd .    It was torn down , and became the site of a bank , but much of the 5 acre area lies vacant to this day .

 

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/139419

 

 

[RedRabbit]

Bill, how did it do in 2010? It seems pretty big to have been flattened then, but maybe it was. In any event, I'd assume Volusia County would have to have the most northern banyan's in Florida (even if they're killed to the ground occasionally.) 

[Josh-O]

I cant wait to plant my 25 gal specimen in the ground after seeing your post Eric

[Gtlevine]

I just love that tree.

Gary

[Eric in Orlando]

19 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Bill, how did it do in 2010? It seems pretty big to have been flattened then, but maybe it was. In any event, I'd assume Volusia County would have to have the most northern banyan's in Florida (even if they're killed to the ground occasionally.) 

 

It probably fared well after 2009-10 winter, maybe some burnt leaves or branch tips. The 2 banyans here at Leu Gardens only had foliar damage.

I would bet the last time it had major damage would have been after the Christmas 1989 freeze.

[Eric in Orlando]

20 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

  I know that tree well. ( I'm the one that posted the Cocos from down the street previously.)

This Ficus has been flattened in the past by freezes ,but is looking great currently. 

In Daytona Beach there are a few Benghalensis , that reach nearly this size between freezes , and there are a couple

of large Elastica's also , and a quite nice Aurea ( I think) in Ormond as well .

   Many moons ago also , I remember seeing a Ficus of some sort , way up at Washington Oaks State Park , that was leaning

out over a spring there .

    A long time ago , there was also a large Moreton Bay Fig , on the street just south of Dent Smith's house .

The most outstanding Banyan that we had hereabouts was within the large central courtyard of the long gone Princess Issena Hotel, which 

was on Seabreeze Blvd .    It was torn down , and became the site of a bank , but much of the 5 acre area lies vacant to this day .

 

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/139419

 

 

 

Do you know how long this banyan has been growing in NSB?

There used to be a good sized banyan downtown Orlando at the corner of Colonial Drive/Hwy50 and Magnolia, where the big 7-11 is now. Decades ago it used to be Mulford Foster's nursery, the world famous bromeliad explorer. I remember first seeing it around 1980 but it was dead. The canopy had been cut out and it was just a skeleton with main trunk and secondary trunks growing from the branches. I don't know what killed it, this was prior to the 1983 killing freeze.

There also used to be another big banyan just south of downtown Orlando along Orange Ave. next to an old florist shop. The 1989 freze had damaged it bad and it was cut to the ground. I discovered it in 1993 and it was back about 20-30ft tall. I took cuttings from it and thats where the 2 Leu banyans came from. That lot was redeveloped about 15 years ago and the idiots cleared the tree out. Glad I got the cuttings.

[Bill H2DB]

   That NSB banyan did get a moderate burn in 2010 , and of course the most exposed area got the worst.

The one on Halifax Dr in Daytona also received about the same at that time , but the inner parts of each did ok.

   I believe in 2001 (or so ) , they both took a good bit of damage , and if I recall , the Daytona one went basically to the ground then .

When those things freeze , they lose integrity fast , and the wood just rapidly breaks down, and falls apart .

   Currently around here , there have appeared a bunch of variegated Ficus's with leaves much like Benghalensis , and I suspect that someone

moved into the area that had them , and they have given cuttings to friends . They haven't been here long enough to become a large rooted big

plant like the NSB one , but they grow fast , as does the regular Benghalensis.

   When they do get flattened , the regrowth afterwards is astounding from these older very large root systems .

   

[RedRabbit]

Awesome, I'm glad they're hardy enough to do well for a long time up there. I'd love to give one a try here, but it is definitely the wrong plant for a small yard. 

 

[Eric in Orlando]

13 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

   That NSB banyan did get a moderate burn in 2010 , and of course the most exposed area got the worst.

The one on Halifax Dr in Daytona also received about the same at that time , but the inner parts of each did ok.

   I believe in 2001 (or so ) , they both took a good bit of damage , and if I recall , the Daytona one went basically to the ground then .

When those things freeze , they lose integrity fast , and the wood just rapidly breaks down, and falls apart .

   Currently around here , there have appeared a bunch of variegated Ficus's with leaves much like Benghalensis , and I suspect that someone

moved into the area that had them , and they have given cuttings to friends . They haven't been here long enough to become a large rooted big

plant like the NSB one , but they grow fast , as does the regular Benghalensis.

   When they do get flattened , the regrowth afterwards is astounding from these older very large root systems .

   

 

 

Those variegated Ficus are probably F. altissima. 10-15 years ago they showed up in the FL nursery trade, being sold as interior plants. For awhile they were very common in the tropical foliage section of all the big box stores. Now they have disappeared. Many I see that were planted out seem to lose the distinct variegation as they get older and get more of a light, bright green leaf with very subtle variegation.

[RedRabbit]

I noticed Daves Garden puts this at 10b... NSB isn't 10b, but it must be a little warmer than I previously thought.

[Eric in Orlando]

Ficus benghalensis is a zone 10a tree and will grow in the warmest parts of 9b but subject to damage in severe freezes there. One of the biggest Banyans in Florida is growing at the old Cypress Gardens, now Legoland in Winter Haven. This is a 9b, borderline 10a zone. It was planted back in the 1930s. They do heat it in severe cold periods but it is huge.

NSB is a definite 9b and borderline 10a.

[Bennz]

On 3/31/2016, 1:02:00, Bill H2DB said:

When those things freeze , they lose integrity fast , and the wood just rapidly breaks down, and falls apart .

Hi Bill,

 

It is hard to understand how it could get cold enough in FLA to knock down a tree that has reached that size! What kind of temp range is required to do this damage? 

I have a small benghalensis growing here at latitude 39S. It has never had any sign of cold damage, but also has not grown much. It is growing basically on top of  a rock (no significant soil), and this summer I decided to water it for the first time, resulting in a dramatic growth spurt. I would not want to loose it to cold. Seems totally happy with continued low winter temps above freezing.

 

 

 

[Bill H2DB]

9 hours ago, Bennz said:

Hi Bill,

 

It is hard to understand how it could get cold enough in FLA to knock down a tree that has reached that size! What kind of temp range is required to do this damage? 

I have a small benghalensis growing here at latitude 39S. It has never had any sign of cold damage, but also has not grown much. It is growing basically on top of  a rock (no significant soil), and this summer I decided to water it for the first time, resulting in a dramatic growth spurt. I would not want to loose it to cold. Seems totally happy with continued low winter temps above freezing.

     When we get our " Big Freezes " , they are always accompanied by strong winds.   These type of Cold Waves are coming straight down from  the far North . The Ocean has little or no effect on these types of cold waves, since the vector is straight off of the mainland Continent .   In my life , I have been through these many times , including '57-'58 , '62 ( 18 deg ) , '83 , '85 ( 15 deg- All-time low ) , '89 , '92 , etc ., with other freezes between these that approach these .  Many full sizes trees , such as Australian Pine , Silk Oak ,  Jacaranda , Mango ,  Melaleuca , various eucalypti's , etc freeze basically flat to the ground at these times .

 Daytona Is really in North Florida in many respects , and sooner or later it will happen again . It just takes the right setup of weather systems to do it .

    Other factors , such as hours below freezing , and successive days of cold  etc also enter in here .

   

 

 

 

[Bill H2DB]

   Here is an interesting link to the local newspaper in 1962 :

 

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=OWslULmvb_UC&dat=19621213&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

[Bennz]

Thanks Bill. While it is easy enough to understand these cold spells intellectually, they are hard to imagine when the image of Florida that comes to mind is somewhat different! Also my climate is so different it is hard to relate. Over here the weather is cool all year around but the record cold is usually no more than a degree or two colder than the coldest temp that happens every year, so basically if a plant survives its first winter it is more or less likely to survive its full lifetime. Last winter we had the coldest daytime on record, one day only got up to 39F at my place... but the low that night was 36F. It has only dropped to 32F once in my lifetime (45 years).  Hard to imagine gardening in a place where it is basically tropical most of the year but still occaisonally getting some real cold.

[Bill H2DB]

4 hours ago, Bennz said:

Hard to imagine gardening in a place where it is basically tropical most of the year but still occaisonally getting some real cold.

   Yes , it is pretty weird from that viewpoint.  Quite often, before the big fronts come through , there is the accompanying warm up

with a southwest flow from the Tropics ahead of the passage . Even in January , that can bring 80+ temperatures and summer like conditions in , and 

then the front crashes through ( usually with some quick thunderstorms) , and the winds switch to North and NW , the dew point falls , and in a few minutes its like moving to another climate .

[RedRabbit]

On March 31, 2016 at 1:22:08 PM, Eric in Orlando said:

NSB is a definite 9b and borderline 10a.

I agree on 9b. I was looking at some wunderground stations in coastal Volusia County and saw a lot of temps around 31f for the 2016 low. That kind of came as a surprise because I know at least my area had a very warm winter so I would have thought NSB would have come in more like 35f, but for whatever reason it didn't. If this year is any indication, and it might not be, then 10a is probably a stretch.

Edited April 5, 2016 by RedRabbit

[SubTropicRay]

There was a very big Ficus benghalensis near the NW corner of Dale Mabry Hwy and El Prado in south Tampa.  It was planted in the 1950's and survived the 1980's freezes but not the chain saw last year  

[RedRabbit]

30 minutes ago, SubTropicRay said:

There was a very big Ficus benghalensis near the NW corner of Dale Mabry Hwy and El Prado in south Tampa.  It was planted in the 1950's and survived the 1980's freezes but not the chain saw last year  

What a shame.  There's one in a fairly small yard at the corner of North B and Lois, but that's the only one I know of in Tampa.

Do you know of any outside of S Tampa? I would assume they'd do fine in other areas of Hillsborough County, but I haven't seen them.

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedRabbit

[SubTropicRay]

There are some tucked into smaller yards near Bayshore but they are hard to pick out.  Homeowners trim the stilt roots as they come down so the tree gets harder to pick out.  There's a scraggly looking one that's been pruned too many times on south MacDill just past El Prado.

[Eric in Orlando]

On 3/29/2016, 7:59:39, Bill H2DB said:

  I know that tree well. ( I'm the one that posted the Cocos from down the street previously.)

This Ficus has been flattened in the past by freezes ,but is looking great currently. 

In Daytona Beach there are a few Benghalensis , that reach nearly this size between freezes , and there are a couple

of large Elastica's also , and a quite nice Aurea ( I think) in Ormond as well .

   Many moons ago also , I remember seeing a Ficus of some sort , way up at Washington Oaks State Park , that was leaning

out over a spring there .

    A long time ago , there was also a large Moreton Bay Fig , on the street just south of Dent Smith's house .

The most outstanding Banyan that we had hereabouts was within the large central courtyard of the long gone Princess Issena Hotel, which 

was on Seabreeze Blvd .    It was torn down , and became the site of a bank , but much of the 5 acre area lies vacant to this day .

 

https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/139419

 

 

 

 

Is the Banyan still at Washington Oaks State Park? I found this article from December 31, 1983, just a few days after the big Christmas 1983 freeze.

 

 

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1873&dat=19831231&id=k9wpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p9IEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3170,8248511&hl=en

[Bennz]

7 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

 Homeowners trim the stilt roots as they come down so the tree gets harder to pick out.  

Why do they do this? Is it to control size? 

 

Hard to understand why you would have a banyan tree in your yard and cut off the aerial roots

[Bill H2DB]

4 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Is the Banyan still at Washington Oaks State Park? I found this article from December 31, 1983, just a few days after the big Christmas 1983 freeze.

    I have not been in there for a long time.    2 years after this came the All Time Freeze for this area , and whatever might have regrown after '83 , would have 

been blasted again.        It was 15 & 18 in a row here in Daytona in '85 , so....?

   However , I was surprised to see some Australian Pines up in that area , and further North  just a few years ago , and they All were absolutely flattened during these 2 freezes .

So , maybe if the Rangers left the root clump alone , the Banyan might still exist .

   In fact here in DB , there's a few remaining  Austr Pine clumps becoming good sized again , although development etc has reduced the commonality greatly .

    BTW There is a Florida Strangler Fig at Sugar Mill Gardens in Port Orange , that is ok , and another on the S. peninsula part of DB as well .

 

[RedRabbit]

15 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

There are some tucked into smaller yards near Bayshore but they are hard to pick out.  Homeowners trim the stilt roots as they come down so the tree gets harder to pick out.  There's a scraggly looking one that's been pruned too many times on south MacDill just past El Prado.

That's a good point, if they're regularly pruned it would be hard to tell if you're just casually driving by unless it is right by the road. The one I mentioned on North B looks fairly inconspicuous now after it's last pruning:

7 hours ago, Bennz said:

Why do they do this? Is it to control size? 

 

Hard to understand why you would have a banyan tree in your yard and cut off the aerial roots

I'd imagine it is to control size. Lots in S. Tampa tend to be pretty small so you can't have a plant that gets huge. As much as I like them, they're a really bad choice for most people. 

[kinzyjr]

The Ficus benghalensis at Legoland (formerly Cypress Gardens) in Winter Haven, FL

[palmsOrl]

What a tree Eric!  I need to get one of these to keep as a bonsai.  My mom was just asking about this last weekend.  She wants one for her yard in Port Charlotte but was concerned it might be illegal in Charlotte County, so I looked it up and Ficus benghalensis is indeed illegal in said county.  So I introduced her to the loophole, Ficus aurea, our Florida native species that gets very banyan-like when large.  I am giving her my larger specimen to plant in the yard.

[bubba]

I saw the Banyan at Washington Oaks State Park (near Flagler Beach) and can confirm Bill's sighting. It was billed as the furthest north Banyan in Florida. About ten (10) years later I went back to see it but it disappeared!

[JasonD]

On 3/31/2016 at 5:41 PM, Bennz said:

Hi Bill,

 

It is hard to understand how it could get cold enough in FLA to knock down a tree that has reached that size! What kind of temp range is required to do this damage? 

I have a small benghalensis growing here at latitude 39S. It has never had any sign of cold damage, but also has not grown much. It is growing basically on top of  a rock (no significant soil), and this summer I decided to water it for the first time, resulting in a dramatic growth spurt. I would not want to loose it to cold. Seems totally happy with continued low winter temps above freezing.

 

 

 

This is just the info I was searching for! Ficus benghalensis growing in a mid-latitude, low-heat climate. Thank you!

 

[tjwalters]

On 3/31/2016 at 1:22 PM, Eric in Orlando said:

Ficus benghalensis is a zone 10a tree and will grow in the warmest parts of 9b but subject to damage in severe freezes there. One of the biggest Banyans in Florida is growing at the old Cypress Gardens, now Legoland in Winter Haven. This is a 9b, borderline 10a zone. It was planted back in the 1930s. They do heat it in severe cold periods but it is huge.

NSB is a definite 9b and borderline 10a.

Eric,

I'm a bit late to this party, but...according to the latest USDA map, 10a appears to start midway down Brevard Co., so it seems NSB would be a solid 9b, even on the coast.

Do you know of any Port Jackson figs (F. rubiginosa) that far north?  I have a couple small (~4 feet tall) potted plants and they have a crazy amount of aerial roots - definitely many more than my similarly sized potted banyans.

[Mangosteen]

Here's a photo of a huge Ficus growing in the ravine on my property on the Big Island just north of Hilo. A waterfall and stream run through the bottom of the ravine so the tree has an unlimited supply of water. Its hard to get a good photo because of its size and the fact that its surrounded by a forest of Archontophoenix alexandrae.