Dypsis pembana vs Dypsis lutescens hardiness comparison

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Well our first Dypsis pembana reached the ceiling of the pool enclosure so it had to go into the ground.  I'm a bit nervous about winter.  So, I thought I'd ask this forum their experience in comparing relative hardiness of Dypsis lutescens to Dypsis pembana.  We moved here in July 2012 and have had Dypsis lutescens outside over since.  It's been frost scorched a time or two, but never anything too serious, though we have lost a few canes.  How would y'all rate the chances of D pembana?  

[quaman58]

Keith,

 

Out here, I would rate them identical. Neither one is a big fan of frost, although they can deal with it. Onilihensis & some other clustering Dypsis seem 2-3 degrees cold hardier.

 

Bret

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

28 minutes ago, quaman58 said:

Keith,

 

Out here, I would rate them identical. Neither one is a big fan of frost, although they can deal with it. Onilihensis & some other clustering Dypsis seem 2-3 degrees cold hardier.

 

Bret

Thats good to know.  We tried to plant it in a place where frost doesn't form easily, but...well, its still outside....  

I would like to acquire an Onilihensis to try.  I really like that weeping form.

[DoomsDave]

Here in California, I've found lutescens to be much hardier in all respects than pembana.

I've never had the chance to test their cold-hardiness.

Pembies here hate the hot sun; lutes will take it well, with plenty of water. Pembies get taller, fatter, the whole thing, compared to lutes if they're happy.

Keith in SJ, you may have an easier time getting pembies to grow because you have much higher humidity. But I think your periodic cold winters will be lethal, and for lutes as well.

But! Prove me wrong!

[PalmatierMeg]

I have nothing negative to say about D. pembana in my area. My largest has taken down to 28.5 in 2010 after a day of near-freezing rain with only some spotting. Both of mine take blazing FL sun without burning. They are more attractive than D. lutescens. That said, I don't know how low your winters get or how much lower in the 20s pembana can take.

[RedRabbit]

Based on what I've seen reading PT pembana was considered the hardier of the two... Driving around Tampa there are a lot of 5-7ft tall lutescens; I think most of them froze to the ground in 2010 and regrew from the roots. It isn't good they aren't all that hardy, but at least they'll come back so that's pretty redeeming. 

[Josh-O]

8 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I have nothing negative to say about D. pembana in my area. My largest has taken down to 28.5 in 2010 after a day of near-freezing rain with only some spotting. Both of mine take blazing FL sun without burning. They are more attractive than D. lutescens. That said, I don't know how low your winters get or how much lower in the 20s pembana can take.

wow! I'm glad to hear that this dypsis has some real cold tolerance.

[pigafetta]

Where i live D. lutescens will grow but rarely looks good, while I dont think anyone has got D. pembana to survive long term.

[Eric in Orlando]

Dypsis pembana is a winner here, I have really been promoting this palm for the warmer areas of central FL/Orlando. It went through the winter of 2009-10 with no damage while D. lutescens suffered severe foliage burn and some stems were killed. Dypsis pembana is also a good vigorous grower and doesn't sucker heavily so it makes a nice open clump. 

We have one mature specimen growing here at Leu Gardens but I have several younger specimens to plant out this year. I live north of Orlando in Altamonte Springs which is a few degrees colder than Orlando in winter. I planted one a couple weeks ago to try it up here.

Dypsis lutescens is very heavily planted around Orlando and there are mature clumps 15-20ft tall in the warmer areas. It would be nice if some of the even hardier clustering Dypsis were planted more frequently. Besides Dypsis pembana, these other Dypsis are good specimens for here and hardier than D. lutescens;

Dypsis baronii

D. madagascariensis

D. madagascariensis "Mahajanga form"- hardier than D. madagascariensis

D. onilahensis

D. psammophila

 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

33 minutes ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Dypsis pembana is a winner here, I have really been promoting this palm for the warmer areas of central FL/Orlando. It went through the winter of 2009-10 with no damage while D. lutescens suffered severe foliage burn and some stems were killed. Dypsis pembana is also a good vigorous grower and doesn't sucker heavily so it makes a nice open clump. 

We have one mature specimen growing here at Leu Gardens but I have several younger specimens to plant out this year. I live north of Orlando in Altamonte Springs which is a few degrees colder than Orlando in winter. I planted one a couple weeks ago to try it up here.

Dypsis lutescens is very heavily planted around Orlando and there are mature clumps 15-20ft tall in the warmer areas. It would be nice if some of the even hardier clustering Dypsis were planted more frequently. Besides Dypsis pembana, these other Dypsis are good specimens for here and hardier than D. lutescens;

Dypsis baronii

D. madagascariensis

D. madagascariensis "Mahajanga form"- hardier than D. madagascariensis

D. onilahensis

D. psammophila

 

I will look for these 5, Eric.  I have something I bought as baronii, but those with more experience with the species says it looks like it's crossed with decaryi.  Its in a pot, and has proven trouble free forgiving my negligence as its in the front of the house where I don't spend much time.  

[RedRabbit]

I was playing around with streetview last night and saw some lutescens get killed to the ground in an area with pre-2010 coconut and adonidia survivors. Lutescens seems like a wimp for stem hardiness... 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

21 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I have nothing negative to say about D. pembana in my area. My largest has taken down to 28.5 in 2010 after a day of near-freezing rain with only some spotting. Both of mine take blazing FL sun without burning. They are more attractive than D. lutescens. That said, I don't know how low your winters get or how much lower in the 20s pembana can take.

Meg, its quite a bit colder here than at your place.  We're a long way from any water, and in an area where cold air collects.  I have noticed that the coldest lows are very brief because the cold air layer is extremely shallow (well at least thats the trend here for the last 3 winters).  I'm going to attach 3 photos, but the pembana is in the shade right now and the images are very poor.  If you look closely, its planted near the base of this large reclinata.  This area is mild and protected enough that frost doesn't form (at least not that I've seen over the last couple of mild winters).  The first photo is facing east, the second is facing west.  I'll get the Canon out tonight and see if I can get a better photo once the sun is illuminating the tree from the west. 

The third photo is the D lutescens amongst caryota, with the autograph tree to its left.  Its about 20' away from the pembana.  This particular plant I purchased back around 2001 or 2002 as a 6" pot of seedlings that I wanted to fertilize to death (true story). Of course, it didn't die.  It lived in a pot until 2013 when I planted here on the south side of the house.  I will say it was in one monster pot and its been frozen hard (low-mid 20's) at least once while it sat on the porch in Jacksonville when I was away and a freeze struck.  So, I've kinda grown attached to the thing.  Its survived all of my negligence.  Its probably 12' tall now which ins't bad considering its poor care.  

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I was playing around with streetview last night and saw some lutescens get killed to the ground in an area with pre-2010 coconut and adonidia survivors. Lutescens seems like a wimp for stem hardiness... 

yes, I've certainly killed a few canes!  I've even lost them to Pink Rot on D. lutescens that were housebound in Charlotte during the winter.  The one in my post above has endured temps into the low-mid 20's on the porch in Jacksonville.  I thought it was toast, but it recovered after losing a good many canes.  Here it got whacked one Christmas but I don't know the actual temps.  I don't think it was a cold because we didn't have much cane loss.  It was mostly just toasty leaves.  After cold damage, I don't remove leaves until days are hot & nights warm so the pink rot doesn't get a foothold.  Thats worked pretty well.

[DoomsDave]

6 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Dypsis pembana is a winner here, I have really been promoting this palm for the warmer areas of central FL/Orlando. It went through the winter of 2009-10 with no damage while D. lutescens suffered severe foliage burn and some stems were killed. Dypsis pembana is also a good vigorous grower and doesn't sucker heavily so it makes a nice open clump. 

We have one mature specimen growing here at Leu Gardens but I have several younger specimens to plant out this year. I live north of Orlando in Altamonte Springs which is a few degrees colder than Orlando in winter. I planted one a couple weeks ago to try it up here.

Dypsis lutescens is very heavily planted around Orlando and there are mature clumps 15-20ft tall in the warmer areas. It would be nice if some of the even hardier clustering Dypsis were planted more frequently. Besides Dypsis pembana, these other Dypsis are good specimens for here and hardier than D. lutescens;

Dypsis baronii

D. madagascariensis

D. madagascariensis "Mahajanga form"- hardier than D. madagascariensis

D. onilahensis

D. psammophila

 

And don't forget D. arenarum, ankaizensis, and the various hybrids of all of the above.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here are two more pix with the sun at a lower angle.  Its needs a bit of a clean up...I didn't do the planting and its not quite up to par.

[Tracy]

I haven't tested the bottom limits of my D pembanas but some have seen at least 30 degrees in the last 6 years.  I had more wind damage from the ones that were exposed than cold damage, particularly this winter when we had the combo of a storm followed by dry Santa Ana winds (or was the order reversed).  Fortunately they are fast growers and will grow out of the ugliness pretty quickly.  This is one in a more protected spot in my old garden, but I don't know how cold it got over there this winter.  It gets a good deal of shade, the 2 story house it south of its planting, and the Bizzie is west of it, and the R Sapida immediately east.  Give them shade and they will stretch for the sun!

[RedRabbit]

I stopped by Mike Evans' place today and left with a D. pembana... I've read a lot of good things about them so we'll see how it does in northern Tampa.

[RedRabbit]

My D. pembana didn't perform well during these past freezes, but it did do better than D. lutescens which look like their stems will die. 

The surprise clumping winner for me was  Ptychosperma macarthurii which did far better than either. 

[Palmaceae]

I had 31-32 degree low and my pembana had zero damage while the lutescens had some burn.

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Palmaceae

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Palmaceae said:

I had 31-32 degree low and my pembana had zero damage while the lutescens had some burn.

 

I gotta think you were colder than that for lutescens to get that much burn.

I am not sure about ultimate cold hardiness, but lutescens are much more cool hardy.  Lutescens makes it through winter lows of 30 or so with very little to no damage, and pembana croaks without fail.  I don't think it is the lows though, I think it's the 2 months that we're in the 50s for highs and high 30s for lows.

[Palmaceae]

11 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I gotta think you were colder than that for lutescens to get that much burn.

I am not sure about ultimate cold hardiness, but lutescens are much more cool hardy.  Lutescens makes it through winter lows of 30 or so with very little to no damage, and pembana croaks without fail.  I don't think it is the lows though, I think it's the 2 months that we're in the 50s for highs and high 30s for lows.

Thanks. There may have been colder spots in the yard but I have 3 temp sensors and one was 31, the other 2 were 32.  My coconuts show far less damage than the lutescens. Right behind the lutescens in the picture you can see a caroyta and a cocos with very little to no damage. Yes it certianly did not help with the extended time in the 30's this winter.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Palmaceae

[RedRabbit]

12 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I gotta think you were colder than that for lutescens to get that much burn.

I am not sure about ultimate cold hardiness, but lutescens are much more cool hardy.  Lutescens makes it through winter lows of 30 or so with very little to no damage, and pembana croaks without fail.  I don't think it is the lows though, I think it's the 2 months that we're in the 50s for highs and high 30s for lows.

That looks about right to me. The lutescens around here looked roughly the same after our first freeze this year when it hit about 31. They were completely toast after the second freeze at 28f.

Edited January 28, 2018 by RedRabbit

[Xerarch]

On 4/5/2016, 9:00:26, Eric in Orlando said:

Dypsis pembana is a winner here, I have really been promoting this palm for the warmer areas of central FL/Orlando. It went through the winter of 2009-Besides Dypsis pembana, these other Dypsis are good specimens for here and hardier than D. lutescens;

Dypsis baronii

D. madagascariensis

D. madagascariensis "Mahajanga form"- hardier than D. madagascariensis

D. onilahensis

D. psammophila

 

 

On 4/5/2016, 3:47:01, DoomsDave said:

And don't forget D. arenarum, ankaizensis, and the various hybrids of all of the above.

Just how much more hardy are we talking here guys?  This is potentially pretty exciting news for me if these are say 2-3 degrees better than lutescens.  And D. ankaizensis doesn’t show up in my Encylopedia of Cultivates Palms, it must be rare or newly described I suppose.  

[Palmaceae]

Of all the species of Dypsis that I have the only one that showed any damage was my lutescens.

Dypsis cabadae

Dypsis carlsmithii

Dypsis decaryi

Dypsis lanceolata

Dypsis lastelliana

Dypsis leptocheilos

Dypsis lutescens

Dypsis madagascariensis

Dypsis pembana

Dypsis pilulifera

Dypsis saintelucei

Dypsis sp. 'Mayotte'

[RedRabbit]

Does anyone know how Dypsis lutescens compares to Areca triandra? It looks like that may be one of the a better clumping palms for Central Florida. 

[DoomsDave]

12 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Does anyone know how Dypsis lutescens compares to Areca triandra? It looks like that may be one of the a better clumping palms for Central Florida. 

Dunno about Florida, but D. lute is a Viking warrior compared to any of the Arecas. The Arecas will survive well only near the beach here, because of their needs for humidity and lack of frost.

[sonoranfans]

I had both and when young(3-5 gallon size) the pembanas totally burned/defoliated and had spear pull in 2010(28F plus frost), while the (2) lutescens clumps were barely effected, minor cold/frost burn of leaflet tips.  the pembanas were singles, lutescens were clumps with ~7+ small trunks.  there is protection in numbers in the radiative cold event.  One pembana actually died, but two survived and are doing well today after 4 repeated peroxide/daconil treatments once a week after spear pull.  All looked like goners, but I guess these pembanas are a solid 9B.  Lutescens are probably also 9B but perhaps 2 degrees more cold hardy.  Age will certainly matter as most palms are less cold hardy when young.

[EJ;)]

On 1/28/2018 at 9:53 AM, Palmaceae said:

Of all the species of Dypsis that I have the only one that showed any damage was my lutescens.

Dypsis cabadae

Dypsis carlsmithii

Dypsis decaryi

Dypsis lanceolata

Dypsis lastelliana

Dypsis leptocheilos

Dypsis lutescens

Dypsis madagascariensis

Dypsis pembana

Dypsis pilulifera

Dypsis saintelucei

Dypsis sp. 'Mayotte'

where did you find your Dypsis carlsmithii specimen? 

[Palmaceae]

54 minutes ago, EJ;) said:

where did you find your Dypsis carlsmithii specimen? 

I got that at the Fairchild Tropical Garden sale many years ago. Sorry but do not remember the vendor I bought it from, might have been Jeff Searle.

[EJ;)]

looks like a trip tp FL is in my future!

[Merlyn]

I have a clump of Pembana on my East side pathway, and 2 clumps of Lutescens about 15' up the pathway.  The Lutescens is about 15' from the house, and the Pembana is about 6'.  So there's probably a bit of radiant heat helping out the Pembana.  At 28F with frost on Christmas night 2020, and then 30F with heavy frost around the beginning of February 2021, the Lutescens lost all the top fronds and some medium-height fronds.  The two main Pembana trunks (about 12' tall) lost the top leaf to frost burn, but otherwise some burned leaflets.  Here's the Pembana in late January:

It didn't take any additional damage in the February frost, and opened several new fronds in March and April.  The Lutescens just up the pathway had more fronds die off, but it also had a lot more fronds to begin with.  I didn't lose any canes on either plant.  This is the Lutescens (with dust on the lens) and you can see one lower frond on the Pembana poking out onto the pathway. 

Personally I'd rate Pembana to be a bit hardier than Lutescens, just because the only thing that seemed to damage Pembana was the frost.  Cold at 28F didn't seem to damage any of the intermediate or lower fronds.  Lutescens appeared to take frost damage on top as well as cold damage in the middle and lower fronds.  But that's only speculation on my part.