tropicals in the Houston area

[necturus]

Keep driving by this house lately, finally took a hasty shot. Crown of thorns, the large flowered variety, as a shrub, with a tree euphorbia in the background. My mother has had the smaller crown of thorns outside for many years now, with some die back here and there.

Just down a few houses down there is a large Euphorbia tirucalli, probably six feet tall, with three woody trunks. Couldn't get a good picture, unfortunately.

Edited December 31, 2016 by necturus

[topwater]

Papaya?  It's the only one I've seen around here  

Edited August 20, 2017 by topwater

[topwater]

Hard to see, but it's flowering. 

[Really full garden]

I used to plant papayas every year when I lived in Houston. I got really good sized fruit ,but they never ripened completely .It just got too cool at night in November.

The scent of the flowers is incredible.Well worth planting even if you do not get fruit.

[topwater]

What part of Houston?  TC is solid 9b whereas Houston proper is 9a up to 8b in the exurbs. 

[Really full garden]

2 hours ago, topwater said:

What part of Houston?  TC is solid 9b whereas Houston proper is 9a up to 8b in the exurbs. 

I lived in Braeburn Valley along the bayou. Houston was 8B at that time.

[necturus]

I've seen a lot of papayas around town. Last winter killed most of them.

I've posted these guys before, but I figured it's worth a re-post with them leafed out. Two large Bismarckia. These guys withstood a freeze that killed some queens and dwarf date palms. Probably got down to around 20 degrees and stayed below freezing for over 12 hours.

[Matthew92]

On 12/31/2016, 11:00:15, necturus said:

Keep driving by this house lately, finally took a hasty shot. Crown of thorns, the large flowered variety, as a shrub, with a tree euphorbia in the background. My mother has had the smaller crown of thorns outside for many years now, with some die back here and there.

Just down a few houses down there is a large Euphorbia tirucalli, probably six feet tall, with three woody trunks. Couldn't get a good picture, unfortunately.

I've found crown of thorns to be EXTREMELY cold tender. I had one that was thriving in ground in 2015, and even in the 2015-2016 which was very mild for me area (enough for queen palms to survive- max low at 25 deg), the crown of thorns basically melted into mush.

[topwater]

11 hours ago, necturus said:

I've seen a lot of papayas around town. Last winter killed most of them.

I've posted these guys before, but I figured it's worth a re-post with them leafed out. Two large Bismarckia. These guys withstood a freeze that killed some queens and dwarf date palms. Probably got down to around 20 degrees and stayed below freezing for over 12 hours.

Nice, those are the biggest Bizzies I've seen in the Houston/Galveston area. Glad to see they can hang on the cooler side of town, Ive been wondering how far north and west they can grow. 

[necturus]

On 8/21/2017, 8:48:49, Opal92 said:

I've found crown of thorns to be EXTREMELY cold tender. I had one that was thriving in ground in 2015, and even in the 2015-2016 which was very mild for me area (enough for queen palms to survive- max low at 25 deg), the crown of thorns basically melted into mush.

The larger variety is more cold sensitive. The smaller one can take those kind of temperatures and survive with some die-back. With a lot of euphorbia type succulents it's worth leaving them alone for quite some time after a freeze. My mother had a Pedilanthus tithymaloides in a pot that died to the base after two nights at 20 degrees but subsequently resprouted. I have a Euphorbia grantii that did the same thing in that freeze.

[Matthew92]

12 hours ago, necturus said:

The larger variety is more cold sensitive. The smaller one can take those kind of temperatures and survive with some die-back. With a lot of euphorbia type succulents it's worth leaving them alone for quite some time after a freeze. My mother had a Pedilanthus tithymaloides in a pot that died to the base after two nights at 20 degrees but subsequently resprouted. I have a Euphorbia grantii that did the same thing in that freeze.

Mine was the small variety 

[Missi]

Anyone able to grow uber tropicals under protection in Houston? I have Houston on my list of places to move if my husband gets a transfer for promotion (his company has locations all over the South, but nothing available in South Florida due to current abundance of people waiting for promotions at the offices here). I have a bunch of tender tropical under story palms (and other tender plants) in pots on my roofed lanai that I'd want to take with me if/when we move, and I'd want to move somewhere where they can continue to thrive, even if under more protection, but not having to do anything too incredibly eccentric (but I'm will to go a bit eccentric lol).

[necturus]

The area ranges from 8b on the far north side to 9b near the bay, 10a on Galveston Island. If I had it my way I'd live down by topwater, maybe in Seabrook. Of course, the flipside is your neighbors are refineries.

Most of the city is 9a. There are some warm pockets in the city, like the museum district and Montrose where there's some pretty tropical stuff, but those are very dense urban areas without much gardening space. My parents live in a 9a area where a lot of tropicals (plumeria, bromeliads, euphorbia, figs) took two nights with lows around 20 in an unheated greenhouse with minimal damage.

[topwater]

2 hours ago, necturus said:

The area ranges from 8b on the far north side to 9b near the bay, 10a on Galveston Island. If I had it my way I'd live down by topwater, maybe in Seabrook. Of course, the flipside is your neighbors are refineries.

Texas City gets a bad rap because of the plants, however, the local government here is light years ahead of most of our neighbors.  After the plants flooded during Carla in '61, they built a 20 foot ring levee around the entire town. It's designed to withstand a Cat 3 to 4 tidal surge and they are working to improve it to take a Cat 5.  That's what Houston should due to it's plants and ship channel instead of the stupid Ike Dike plan. 

[topwater]

Also, Seabrook isn't far enough south.  TC/LM and the island are 9b, the island may push 10a but it's not solid. Anywhere north or west of there is dicey. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by topwater

[topwater]

6 hours ago, Missi said:

Anyone able to grow uber tropicals under protection in Houston? I have Houston on my list of places to move if my husband gets a transfer for promotion (his company has locations all over the South, but nothing available in South Florida due to current abundance of people waiting for promotions at the offices here). I have a bunch of tender tropical under story palms (and other tender plants) in pots on my roofed lanai that I'd want to take with me if/when we move, and I'd want to move somewhere where they can continue to thrive, even if under more protection, but not having to do anything too incredibly eccentric (but I'm will to go a bit eccentric lol).

If you move to Houston, let me know. If you're interested in being in a warm spot or on the water I can help.  If your hubby doesn't mind the commute, Galveston Island is by far the warmest place to be, but the island has its issues too. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by topwater

[necturus]

2 hours ago, topwater said:

Also, Seabrook isn't far enough south.  TC/LM and the island are 9b, the island may push 10a but it's not solid. Anywhere north or west of there is dicey. 

Certainly, TC is better off, but Seabrook was 8 degrees warmer at the low point of this winter's severe freeze (20 vs 28) than our area (Bellaire-Meyer Land-Westbury).  The difference is obvious when you drive through the two areas. Queens had full crowns in Seabrook in April and pygmy dates were similarly untouched, whereas queens were nearly defoliated here and a lot of pygmy dates died. I'd love a wooded lot down there.

[topwater]

Seabrook really is pretty, same with the places on the west side of Trinity bay, pine trees all the way to the water. And I've caught tons of trout up there in October, November.  Actually, my place bottomed out at 28f too.  I can't get a good pic, but my Foxtails, didn't like it, a few still have a burned frond from last winter.  

[topwater]

On the other hand, in League City closer to the freeway, my exes pygmy dates 100% bronzed. I think they will survive, but I've never seen that happen in the south Gal county.  Everyone who is not a palm nut but likes palms plants what I call the Texas City Trinity, one queen, two pygmys, 100% bullit proof here, but you get so tired of seeing it. 

[topwater]

Across the street neighbor:

[topwater]

Next door neighbor: 

[Xenon]

I would say the west and north side of the Houston Area is your typical zone 9a. East of SH 6 and south of about FM 1960 is 9a; queen palms will be damaged every few years but most will survive. The major airport, IAH, sits in this zone. West and north of about SH 99 is on the colder end of 9a, queen palms will get major damage with a mortality rate >=50% after a "big" freeze we get every few years. Go too far west (Sealy) or north (Conroe) and it becomes 8b/9a; queen palms are marginal. 

For the most part, anything inside BW8 is a solid 9a. The south and southeast portions (south of I-10) are the warmest, I would say Bismarckia makes a good landscape subject in that area. Large queen palms are very common. Phoenix roebelenii is also reliably hardy. Can go many years without a hard freeze; long enough to have fruiting mangoes, giant papayas, etc. This is where Hobby Airport is located. The bayfront (Kemah to Texas City) is even warmer. Once you get down to Galveston, it is borderline zone 10a. There are established royals, foxtails, triangle palms, small tree sized Ficus, etc. A ten year freeze will damage and potentially kill such plants. The current landscape in Galveston is composed of many 9b/10a plants, a freeze below ~25F will torch the area. At one point during a very warm streak in the 2000s (~10+ years without a hard freeze) there were even sizable Satakentia, Carpentaria, Dypsis lutescens...definitely a world away from most of Houston. 

Outside of the bayfront and Galveston, the inner loop (I-610) is the warmest part of the metro area. Can be several degrees warmer than surrounding areas, especially during clear nights. Built up areas directly south of downtown like the Museum District and the Medical Center get the most benefit from the urban heat island effect. These areas run as warm as Galveston during most years, but a prolonged freeze with wind can still bring the area down into the mid 20s with devastating effects to tropical landscaping. At one time, people were growing some pretty adventurous tropical fruits in the area. 

This is all based on temperatures from the last 20 years or so, a repeat of the 1989 freeze will completely change the landscape and kill queen palms even in Galveston. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Xenon

[topwater]

22 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This is all based on temperatures from the last 20 years or so, a repeat of the 1989 freeze will completely change the landscape and kill queen palms even in Galveston. 

It's inevitable, if it happens in my lifetime, my row of six 10a Wodyetia will become a row of 9a Copernicia alba. Bring it on. I much prefer the Copes anyway.  I say that, but it's cool to have a big palm with a crown shaft, a true rarity around here. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by topwater

[topwater]

Foxtails are beastier than they look. Size 12 shoe for scale. 

[topwater]

And the Royals at Moody Garden, give me 15 stories of motel protected from the north and east and I could do way better. Someone like  Eric in Orlando would make them cry out loud how if they knew what it could be. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by topwater

[Xenon]

23 minutes ago, topwater said:

And the Royals at Moody Garden, give me 15 stories of motel protected from the north and east and I could do way better. Someone like  Eric in Orlando would make them cry out loud how if they knew what it could be. 

Agreed. But if you look hard enough, there are some hidden rarities there like Cocothrinax, Ptychosperma, etc. They also recently planted a bunch of Ficus and tropical flowering trees. These are located next to a bunch of Araucaria, crape myrtles, and southern magnolia so it's going to look killer in a few years (if it doesn't freeze). There is also an assortment of large Ficus and royal palms growing in a protected location behind the hotel. 

In the surrounding neighborhoods there is a decent sized mango tree, royal poinciana, king palms, foxtail palms...just amazing.

[topwater]

Speaking of Coccothrinax, these two C. barbadensis took 28 in pots with minimal damage. I think they will be a winner here. I had the flu when that big freeze happened, (28f), I left a lot of stuff out that I regret.  Froze D. lutes and even Cham. cats well established in the ground.  I dug up and replaced the Cat, the lutes are coming back on their own.  

 

 

[topwater]

I'm in love with the Coccothrinax, better look. 

[Missi]

On 8/26/2017, 5:27:20, topwater said:

Across the street neighbor:

 

On 8/26/2017, 5:30:49, topwater said:

Next door neighbor: 

Ugh...gag! My eyes!!  It looks like they went on a landscaping shopping spree at Home Depot! I can't even with cycads, queens, phoenixes of any species, foxtails..I'm even tired of seeing Roystonas! All are so over-planted here in S. FL. I'm surprised I'm not sick of Bizzies, but who can get sick of Bizzies, really?!! I don't know if I can leave S. FL 

How do Dypsis do for you guys?

On 8/26/2017, 6:00:15, Xenon said:

I would say the west and north side of the Houston Area is your typical zone 9a. East of SH 6 and south of about FM 1960 is 9a; queen palms will be damaged every few years but most will survive. The major airport, IAH, sits in this zone. West and north of about SH 99 is on the colder end of 9a, queen palms will get major damage with a mortality rate >=50% after a "big" freeze we get every few years. Go too far west (Sealy) or north (Conroe) and it becomes 8b/9a; queen palms are marginal. 

For the most part, anything inside BW8 is a solid 9a. The south and southeast portions (south of I-10) are the warmest, I would say Bismarckia makes a good landscape subject in that area. Large queen palms are very common. Phoenix roebelenii is also reliably hardy. Can go many years without a hard freeze; long enough to have fruiting mangoes, giant papayas, etc. This is where Hobby Airport is located. The bayfront (Kemah to Texas City) is even warmer. Once you get down to Galveston, it is borderline zone 10a. There are established royals, foxtails, triangle palms, small tree sized Ficus, etc. A ten year freeze will damage and potentially kill such plants. The current landscape in Galveston is composed of many 9b/10a plants, a freeze below ~25F will torch the area. At one point during a very warm streak in the 2000s (~10+ years without a hard freeze) there were even sizable Satakentia, Carpentaria, Dypsis lutescens...definitely a world away from most of Houston. 

Outside of the bayfront and Galveston, the inner loop (I-610) is the warmest part of the metro area. Can be several degrees warmer than surrounding areas, especially during clear nights. Built up areas directly south of downtown like the Museum District and the Medical Center get the most benefit from the urban heat island effect. These areas run as warm as Galveston during most years, but a prolonged freeze with wind can still bring the area down into the mid 20s with devastating effects to tropical landscaping. At one time, people were growing some pretty adventurous tropical fruits in the area. 

This is all based on temperatures from the last 20 years or so, a repeat of the 1989 freeze will completely change the landscape and kill queen palms even in Galveston. 

I don't think I could do anything chillier than 9b. Need relative humidity too. 

[Xenon]

3 hours ago, Missi said:

I don't think I could do anything chillier than 9b. Need relative humidity too. 

Oh it's humid here during the warm months just like Florida (nothing like those western movies). We get 50" + average annual rainfall (though I think we got near that amount in the past few days). I would say summer on the coast is even more "tropical" than South Florida, July and August feature average lows ~80F with similar dew points too. 

Only the immediate coast is a relatively solid 9b. Zone 10 is more than 300 miles south in the Rio Grande Valley. 

The landscape around here is characteristic of zone 9; the most common palms are Washingtonia and queen palms. It's a typical southern landscape of live oak, southern magnolia, crape myrtle, etc. Hope you are not expecting anything even resembling S. Florida.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Xenon

[Really full garden]

When I think of Houston I always think of the incredible variety of shrubs, both formal and informal. Tropicals are commonly used more as accents.

At one time members of the foreign service assigned to Houston consulates received special "Hardship Pay" to help compensate for Houstons hot and humid climate .

[Missi]

On 8/28/2017, 2:43:19, Xenon said:

Oh it's humid here during the warm months just like Florida (nothing like those western movies). We get 50" + average annual rainfall (though I think we got near that amount in the past few days). I would say summer on the coast is even more "tropical" than South Florida, July and August feature average lows ~80F with similar dew points too. 

Only the immediate coast is a relatively solid 9b. Zone 10 is more than 300 miles south in the Rio Grande Valley. 

The landscape around here is characteristic of zone 9; the most common palms are Washingtonia and queen palms. It's a typical southern landscape of live oak, southern magnolia, crape myrtle, etc. Hope you are not expecting anything even resembling S. Florida.

Wait, what are your warm months? If you're saying it can be even more tropical than S. FL, then why not expect anything resembling S. FL?! lol Believe me, we have our fair, fair share of Washingtonia, queens, live oak, southern magnolia, crepe myrtle, and the like.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, Missi said:

Wait, what are your warm months? If you're saying it can be even more tropical than S. FL, then why not expect anything resembling S. FL?! lol Believe me, we have our fair, fair share of Washingtonia, queens, live oak, southern magnolia, crepe myrtle, and the like.

Well obviously winter will be much colder than S. Florida. No coconuts in Houston. January features averages a low of about 45F and a high of 62F. You can pull up full climate data with a web search. But our summers definitely do not lack heat and humidity. Depending on where you are, the average growing season ranges from late February/mid March to November/early December. Temperatures do not drop below 70F from June to mid September. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Xenon

[Missi]

21 hours ago, Xenon said:

Well obviously winter will be much colder than S. Florida. No coconuts in Houston. January features averages a low of about 45F and a high of 62F. You can pull up full climate data with a web search. But our summers definitely do not lack heat and humidity. Depending on where you are, the average growing season ranges from late February/mid March to November/early December. Temperatures do not drop below 70F from June to mid September. 

Oh believe me, we see 40s in January and even February as well. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I have spent a lot of time all through out the southeast US working and Houston is the hottest and most humid area, moreso than anywhere in florida. Only parts of inland Louisiana are more oppressive than Houston in my opinion. Routinely 99-101 for months on end with dewpoints in the 78-82 range with no routine afternoon rainshower to bring relief like Florida. With 6.7million people in the area low temps routinely stay above 80 and the heat index at 8am is usually above 90. It truly is a miserable place in the summer. Ive spent 6 weeks in orlando, miami, St Pete the last 4 summers and i actually prefer their climate over dallas/ft worth and Houston is unequivocally worse than Dallas. 

[topwater]

6 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Ive spent 6 weeks in orlando, miami, St Pete the last 4 summers and i actually prefer their climate over dallas/ft worth and Houston is unequivocally worse than Dallas. 

Except for January, February  :)

[Missi]

16 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I have spent a lot of time all through out the southeast US working and Houston is the hottest and most humid area, moreso than anywhere in florida. Only parts of inland Louisiana are more oppressive than Houston in my opinion. Routinely 99-101 for months on end with dewpoints in the 78-82 range with no routine afternoon rainshower to bring relief like Florida. With 6.7million people in the area low temps routinely stay above 80 and the heat index at 8am is usually above 90. It truly is a miserable place in the summer. Ive spent 6 weeks in orlando, miami, St Pete the last 4 summers and i actually prefer their climate over dallas/ft worth and Houston is unequivocally worse than Dallas. 

 I had no idea we have places in the US more humid than S. FL.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Missi

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

12 hours ago, topwater said:

Except for January, February  :)

Yes, might as well throw March and December in there too.

[Xerarch]

8 hours ago, Missi said:

 I had no idea we have places in the US more humid than S. FL.

I've actually looked into this quite a bit, Texas can be amazingly humid, and yes, even more so than just about anywhere in Florida except the keys. Consider the following graphics from weatherspark.com that measure humidity based on dew points, notice the values of Houston and Corpus compared to Orlando, Key West, and Miami.

Corpus

Houston

Orlando

Key West

Miami

[Xenon]

Here's Port Arthur near the Louisiana border



and South Padre Island down by the Mexican border 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Xenon