Unusual Butia crosses from 2011

[Beespalms]

Thought I would share a few hybrid Butias I hybridized back in 2011.  So here they are.  The palms from left to right Butia capitata x Syagrus schizophylla,  Butia capitata x allogoptera arenaria, butigarus nobonnandii.  All three crosses were made on the same Butia, during the same flowering season, all on different inflorescence. Yes I covered all the inflorescence once I pollinated them and removed all the Butia pollen before the flowers became receptive.   I also tried Cocos pollen, but the seeds did not develop.

All the seedlings sprouted within months of each other.  At first all three crosses looked very similar while in a strap leaf form, and I was not sure if I was successful with the crosses.   However, once each cross began emerging their first pinnate leaves, the difference began to show.  By the end of the 2015 growing season, each had grown into a 3G and I could confirm they were indeed different "species"

I'm sure I am not the first person to make the Allogoptera and S. Schizophylla crosses but I can't find any real info on them.  If anyone has any info on these specific crosses please post it.

I donated one of each to Leu gardens, that were planted in the Butia section of the garden.

I am calling the Schizophylla cross butigarus eastbrookii

I am calling the  Allogoptera hybrid, butigoptera emeryii.  

[awkonradi]

Thank you for your informative post!

[Tom in Tucson]

6 hours ago, Beespalms said:

Thought I would share a few hybrid Butias I hybridized back in 2011.  So here they are.  The palms from left to right Butia capitata x Syagrus schizophylla,  Butia capitata x allogoptera arenaria, butigarus nobonnandii.  All three crosses were made on the same Butia, during the same flowering season, all on different inflorescence. Yes I covered all the inflorescence once I pollinated them and removed all the Butia pollen before the flowers became receptive.   I also tried Cocos pollen, but the seeds did not develop.

All the seedlings sprouted within months of each other.  At first all three crosses looked very similar while in a strap leaf form, and I was not sure if I was successful with the crosses.   However, once each cross began emerging their first pinnate leaves, the difference began to show.  By the end of the 2015 growing season, each had grown into a 3G and I could confirm they were indeed different "species"

I'm sure I am not the first person to make the Allogoptera and S. Schizophylla crosses but I can't find any real info on them.  If anyone has any info on these specific crosses please post it.

I donated one of each to Leu gardens, that were planted in the Butia section of the garden.

I am calling the Schizophylla cross butigarus eastbrookii

I am calling the  Allogoptera hybrid, butigoptera emeryii.  

Great looking hybrids! Did you use Butia capitata or Butia odorata? Why did you choose the names given to the new hybrids? Are you producing other Butia hybrids such as Jubaea or Parajubaea?

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 96°, Lo 58°

[Eric in Orlando]

Thanks again for these donated hybrids, they will make great additions to the collection.

 

 

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Job well done.

[Alicehunter2000]

Very cool! 

They are still difficult to discern from each other in the picture....can you tell us which is which

I imagine the Allogoptera hybrid will began to really show some unsual traits. Only know of one other one that has been posted in the past....and it looks like both Butia and Allogoptera....can somebody find that picture of that naturally occurring hybrid in that guys yard....the one where the hybrid was literally in between an Allogoptera and the Butia.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

1 hour ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Very cool! 

They are still difficult to discern from each other in the picture....can you tell us which is which

I imagine the Allogoptera hybrid will began to really show some unsual traits. Only know of one other one that has been posted in the past....and it looks like both Butia and Allogoptera....can somebody find that picture of that naturally occurring hybrid in that guys yard....the one where the hybrid was literally in between an Allogoptera and the Butia.

Second sentence of the first post.

"The palms from left to right Butia capitata x Syagrus schizophylla,  Butia capitata x allogoptera arenaria, butigarus nobonnandii. "

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks

Is the Allogoptera hybrid leaflets lying on a flat plane....any closeups on that one?

[Josh-O]

very nice indeed!

[gilles06]

i want one butigoptera

[Beespalms]

On May 6, 2016 at 2:46:44 AM, Tom in Tucson said:

Great looking hybrids! Did you use Butia capitata or Butia odorata? Why did you choose the names given to the new hybrids? Are you producing other Butia hybrids such as Jubaea or Parajubaea?

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 96°, Lo 58°

The Butia is most likely a capitata, but who knows.  The mother tree is 15 feet tall, so it could be 20-30 years old. I can't speak for growers back that far.  No crosses with jubaea, don't have luck in central Florida with our heat and humidity.

[Tom in Tucson]

5 hours ago, Beespalms said:

The Butia is most likely a capitata, but who knows.  The mother tree is 15 feet tall, so it could be 20-30 years old. I can't speak for growers back that far.  No crosses with jubaea, don't have luck in central Florida with our heat and humidity.

As you may know, what has been called Butia capitata is now known to be Butia odorata or a mutt of some sort. Butia capitata is actually quite rare in cultivation. Butia X Jubaea or Jubaea X Butia have actually performed quite well in the northern half of Florida. Getting the Jubaea pollen is the only obstacle (easily overcome if you know any California growers). Parajubaea sunkha has been the easiest to grow (in northern Florida) of the 3 known species in this genus. Here again if you know any California growers you may find some pollen.

Do you plan on selling any of the Allogoptera hybrids (Butigoptera emeryii)?

BTW, where did you come up with the names given to the new hybrids?

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 97°, Lo 59°

 

[Beespalms]

On May 12, 2016 at 1:54:57 AM, Tom in Tucson said:

As you may know, what has been called Butia capitata is now known to be Butia odorata or a mutt of some sort. Butia capitata is actually quite rare in cultivation. Butia X Jubaea or Jubaea X Butia have actually performed quite well in the northern half of Florida. Getting the Jubaea pollen is the only obstacle (easily overcome if you know any California growers). Parajubaea sunkha has been the easiest to grow (in northern Florida) of the 3 known species in this genus. Here again if you know any California growers you may find some pollen.

Do you plan on selling any of the Allogoptera hybrids (Butigoptera emeryii)?

BTW, where did you come up with the names given to the new hybrids?

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 97°, Lo 59°

 

I have grow jubaea chilensis a few times but never have luck getting them any larger then a 1g before root or bud rot claims them.  Summer humidity and rain can not be avoided.

I was renting a house in a community called East brook "hence one of the palms names"  that had two Butia capitata, or ordorata in the yard.  One palms would not accept any cross genus pollen, while the other accepted everything but coccos.  Unfortunately when I purchased my own home, I lost access to that ultra receptive Palm.  I have two butia's in my yard now, I planted in 2013, but they are young have not emerged inflorescence in two years, as they establish.  They had inflorescence on them when they came out of the field.

the emeryii name is in honor of my family that had to deal with me being on a ladder for hours making this all happen.  Palm porno is what they called it.

i have a few other crosses planed with other syagrus species onto Butia, and also vice-versa.

[Beespalms]

Here are updated pictures of the Butigoptera emeryii now planted in the ground

[Beespalms]

Here are updated pictures of the Butigarus eastbrookii now planted in the ground.

[ErikSJI]

I wonder why the growth rate is so slow on these Hybrids. A regular Mule palm would have been twice the size at this age.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Brett, i assume that you gave one to leu gardens? I was quite surprised to see one there during my visit today.

[Beespalms]

I was mowing the lawn and noticed the Butigoptera emeryii  (butia x allogoptera cross) had emerged a inflorescence.  I was really surprised since the palm is so young.  I planted it from a 3g size two+ years ago.  

I was starting to get a little concerned that I was not successful with this hybrid since this palm was looking very Butia and not much Allogoptera.  However flowering at such a young age leads me to believe I was successful.  Most of my Allogoptera palms began flowering a few year in the ground after being planted from a 3g size.  

The leaves are very arching and have a slightly elevated white / silver colored underside.  The last 12 inches of the leaves get needle thin and soft to the touch, being very pliable.  There are also a few leaflets that double up on each other, breaking the evenly pinnate order.

 

[gyuseppe]

10 hours ago, Beespalms said:

 

is butia not hybrid

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I don't know what to make of this.  I was expecting a weird cylindrical flower being hybridized with Allagoptera but that looks just like a butia flower

[Cikas]

Looks like butia, not a hybrid. 

[Beespalms]

I agree, it looks like a Butia.  I will post a few further pictures with the odd traits I found,  that could possibly help ID this as a hybrid.  

However, has anyone ever had a pure Butia odorata flower at such a small size?  I never have, but I am wondering if other have.  It is 3, tall.  The two I planted did not flower until they were over 8’ tall.

[howfam]

On 10/2/2018 at 9:37 PM, Beespalms said:

I agree, it looks like a Butia.  I will post a few further pictures with the odd traits I found,  that could possibly help ID this as a hybrid.  

However, has anyone ever had a pure Butia odorata flower at such a small size?  I never have, but I am wondering if other have.  It is 3, tall.  The two I planted did not flower until they were over 8’ tall.

I saw a small Butia ball and burlap, in Home Depot a few years ago with fruit on it. I was shocked to see such a small palm, about 10 gal. size, fruiting so early.

[Alberto]

On 5/11/2016 at 8:46 PM, Beespalms said:

The Butia is most likely a capitata, but who knows.  The mother tree is 15 feet tall, so it could be 20-30 years old. I can't speak for growers back that far.  No crosses with jubaea, don't have luck in central Florida with our heat and humidity.

Real Butia capitata (from southeastern central Brazil) are suposed to be rare in the a USA.  More common are the Butia odorata (in the past called B. capitata, from south Brazil)

[Alberto]

 

[Ben in Norcal]

My Butia x Allagoptera from Patric look very Butia like, perhaps a bit whispier.  I have not bothered to plant it - I can't see the point.  This one strikes me as not a great cross.

[Ben in Norcal]

[Bigfish]

On 1/18/2020 at 11:26 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

Ben, did you ever plant this one out?  I’m curious what it looks like, because I performed this very cross this year.

[Alberto]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:37 PM, Beespalms said:

I agree, it looks like a Butia.  I will post a few further pictures with the odd traits I found,  that could possibly help ID this as a hybrid.  

However, has anyone ever had a pure Butia odorata flower at such a small size?  I never have, but I am wondering if other have.  It is 3, tall.  The two I planted did not flower until they were over 8’ tall.

I had Butia eriospatha crossed with B.microspadix flowering at astonishing young age. Do you have other Butia species in the garden besides Butia odorata?

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Bigfish said:

Ben, did you ever plant this one out?  I’m curious what it looks like, because I performed this very cross this year.

No, I gave it away.  It never got very attractive so I didn't bother to find space for it.

[Bigfish]

4 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

No, I gave it away.  It never got very attractive so I didn't bother to find space for it.

Yours was with what species of Allagoptera?  Was it the old Polyandrococos?  Mine is with Allagoptera arenaria.

[Ben in Norcal]

21 hours ago, Bigfish said:

Yours was with what species of Allagoptera?  Was it the old Polyandrococos?  Mine is with Allagoptera arenaria.

Yes, it was the old Polyandrococos.  Made for a surprisingly unattractive cross, unless you are a fan of anemic looking Butia!

[Bigfish]

@Beespalms, what did your Butia x Allagoptera arenaria end up looking like?