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What is the survival rate of "Doinkers"? (per MattyB)

BS Man about Palms

By BS Man about Palms
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

I am not sure whether to break this into two threads or lump part two into this, but here is the main question and brief explanation.

 

MattyB affectionately coined a phrase sometime back of a "Doinker" when a palm that has had some trauma decides to abort its current growth point and shoot its meristem/growth point out in some other direction. It seems most common on heeled palms or palms that have a slow growth rate...

I've had several and most have died, but I know of a couple that went on at other peoples places. 

Some of Mine that have "Doinked" and died.. :( 

A Dypsis manajarensis about healthy 5 gal size

A Kentiopsis piersoniorum a big 5 gal size

 

Two doinkers still going

A moderate sized 5 gal Ceroxylon sp.

A large box sized Dypsis cannaiculata. <-- this palm is part two to ask later...

 

I know at Jerry Anderson's nursery, they had a Planted 8' ? Parajubea torallyi do this and got so big from the doinker you eventually could not tell where the old palm was.

 

Anyone else to provide inputs please?

 

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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coops 3214 Collaborator

coops 3214

Posted
Posted

I had a sabal maritima in a pot that just started browning off about 10 months ago only 12 inches tall so small and then as it got worse i found a leaf under the soil i pulled it out and now its twice the size of the original which is now dead, 

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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That's good.. anyone else with in ground or potted palm stories? 

I think I killed my others because I had backed off on the water as I was not sure what was going on, but stepped up the water when I saw the doinkers. I need to learn to maintain...

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Hilo Jason Grand Master

Hilo Jason

Posted
Posted

Here's a heeled Dypsis in the ground that died off and sent up a "Doinker", it has now sent up 3. Wasn't labeled when I bought it. I think it's Decipiens but the leaflets are a bit thin, almost like Ambositrae.  It's pretty quick though whatever it is as all of this growing has happened in the last 1-2 years from being a dead looking plant.

image.thumb.jpeg.462d946de662d055f0d1e7c

image.thumb.jpeg.486c94c76503d8bc77abdf1

 

 

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Cool Jason, Thanks for the response. It looks like the D. ambositrae..(real) and I have noticed when I see these, they are often multitrunked, Or split soon after trunking.

 

MattyB.. any inputs? :)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

yes Matty B we are waiting?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Parajube tor tors doink a lot.

They tip over, and lay down flat on the ground sometimes.

Well you have to help them doink. Cut a slot in the upward facing part of the stem and sometimes they just shoot right up. Looks wierd, for a while, till the old part of the stem rots away.

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

Bill, does a liner pseudophoenix vinifera count?

IMG_5318.JPG.dfa73796bbb714253e6fa03d3a7IMG_5319.JPG.e4262c73b973dfa90eef3d96695IMG_5320.JPG.cfda697f756659b09375b75271d

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Woah Josh! Pretty amazing!!

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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So, on the Dypsis canaliculata I mentioned earlier.. I was hoping for Matts input but he rarely pops in here much... anyway. When I dug down far enough, it turns out where the gophers/voles or both chewed through the palm base and left a hole, the newest spear took a detour out there. It was putting out a spear when attacked and it continued to push that and was heavily deformed. (The prior, non- attacked frond was roughly 7' long, the mutant not half that..)

I thought about cutting the end of the spear off and trying to fish out back through the hole on the big frond. However it has really closed up where it was supposed to go. Hard to tell from the pic, but probably a foot of spear was pushed but was bent into a big Z trying to move that heavy rock.. 

So, I think at this point I'm just letting it go and may someday notch the old frond base. But as it is the only one I have full size, I am loathe to do that. :blink:

20160522_115401.thumb.jpg.7460f19ac202b3

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

So, on the Dypsis canaliculata I mentioned earlier.. I was hoping for Matts input but he rarely pops in here much... anyway. When I dug down far enough, it turns out where the gophers/voles or both chewed through the palm base and left a hole, the newest spear took a detour out there. It was putting out a spear when attacked and it continued to push that and was heavily deformed. (The prior, non- attacked frond was roughly 7' long, the mutant not half that..)

I thought about cutting the end of the spear off and trying to fish out back through the hole on the big frond. However it has really closed up where it was supposed to go. Hard to tell from the pic, but probably a foot of spear was pushed but was bent into a big Z trying to move that heavy rock.. 

So, I think at this point I'm just letting it go and may someday notch the old frond base. But as it is the only one I have full size, I am loathe to do that. :blink:

20160522_115401.thumb.jpg.7460f19ac202b3

that's a crazy Doinker Bill!!

 

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Stevetoad Grand Master

Stevetoad

Posted
Posted

I thought those were dweezels?

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"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Maybe the phrase is interchangable... if Matt ever visits he can set us straight..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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I think he's become facebook IPS centric..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I think he's become facebook IPS centric..

agreed,

he dos'nt even respond back to text messages these days..lol:bemused:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Cardiff Palm Nut stopped by today and while I was showing him the doinker, I took a better side pic to show the "Z" pattern it formed from trying to push so much weight... :o

Look close

20160530_103910.thumb.jpg.d3af0d762b6952

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 2 months later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Here is an update. Thankfully, this palm just soldiers on. When I went on the biennial the leaves/spear got caught in the hole and I tried to wiggle and pull and get the leaves out thru the hole, but some were going the right way, some following the spear out the side.While doing all this moving around, I heard "crack" down low and was not sure if the hole had opened further or I broke the petiole.. :( Well, after a month or so as I looked closer, the break I had made was quite evident. It was getting fatter and the hope of getting it all through the hole was not realistic, so a couple weeks back I basically cut the largest "normal frond" (about 7-8') in half at the bottom to allow the new spear an upright path.

In the 2nd pic, the break is evident in upper center and a spear mark a couple days ago shows decent growth, especially considering the spear is probably close to 2.5" in diameter at the base.

20160806_093655.thumb.jpg.5ad307ccbafcf620160806_093629.thumb.jpg.856a047cec038b 

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Las Palmas Norte Grand Master

Las Palmas Norte

Posted
Posted
On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2016‎ ‎11‎:‎08‎:‎55‎, Stevetoad said:

I thought those were dweezels?

That is Frank's son ... Zappa that is.:D

Cheers, Barrie.

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Dypsisdean Grand Master

Dypsisdean

Posted
Posted

I always used "dweezle" to describe this - as in the palm "dweezled" on me. Some discussion can be read about the difference between a doinker and a dweezle here http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/44499-ravenea-xerophila-offshoot/#comment-685290

There you will read where Matty correctly gives credit to Dooms Dave for "dweezle." And then, as the originator of "doinker," he further sets the record straight by proclaiming that "all dweezles are doinkers. But keep in mind that not all doinkers are dweezles." :)

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animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Thanks for the info Dean. So, following Matt's info, due to size alone it must be a dweezle, but early in its life it was a doinker.. :D I have no idea... I just want it to keep growing..

 

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 3 weeks later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Well, thanks to cutting and pruning and observation, the palm appears to have the growing point more or less straightened out.  What's above ain't pretty, but its making energy to keep going... :)

20160828_095341.thumb.jpg.515cb2ddae1db6

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Whats up with yours Josh... or anyone elses?

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 4 months later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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So far the Dypsis canniculata is looking like its gonna come back.. assuming I can keep the varmints at bay.. The accordion leaf is at the bottom of the pic.

20170117_162554.thumb.jpg.6869f440c067fb

 

  • Upvote 2

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Phoenikakias Grand Master

Phoenikakias

Posted
Posted

The rate of survival of a doinker depends on the general condition of the palm and the porosity of the substrate. Here is a doinker from a Sabal causiarum, it now has developed to two new leaves.

IMG_20160723_132545.thumb.jpg.421aeacaf8IMG_20160723_132559.thumb.jpg.5b2a0ee9ca

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

So, Bill, how's the doinker these days?

And, it will be great to see you at the banquet!

 

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Posted
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

So, Bill, how's the doinker these days?

And, it will be great to see you at the banquet!

 

The pic above was taken a couple days ago Dave, doing well

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 1 year later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Update, it's doing pretty good! (Knock on my stapled head!!)

41320073_980824938791011_224240761785706

41295306_1947834051939802_74166402750967

 

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Welcome Martin! That's not a doinker, it's a fungus/growth issue, but looks like it grew through it. Generally doinkers/dweezles are where the original palm stopped growing and it's growing point made a change in direction and emerges elsewhere nearby all due to some sort of trauma.

 

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 1 month later...
Moose Grand Master

Moose

Posted
Posted
On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018‎ ‎3‎:‎40‎:‎47‎, BS Man about Palms said:

Update, it's doing pretty good! (Knock on my stapled head!!)

41320073_980824938791011_224240761785706

41295306_1947834051939802_74166402750967

 

This is proof that you are the grand master doinkster. Great comeback.

Mine carked :crying:

  • Upvote 1

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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Sad to hear Moose..

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Funkthulhu Mentor

Funkthulhu

Posted
Posted

I have now learned the term Doinker and will use it to describe my mutants in the container ranch...

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

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  • 5 years later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

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I see @Merlyn tagged this thread recently and I should note my D (now C.) cannaliculata is growing quite well.  No trunk yet, but 10'+ leaves. 
Anyway, one observation I have had about "true" doinkers/dweezles is that for the most part I have found is that if the "main" plant has stopped growing, and you eventually find the dweezle/doinker the key is TO CONTINUE WHAT YOU WERE DOING OVER THE PRIOR FEW MONTHS.  I have killed more than a couple , or seen ones that have succumbed ton increased water, fertilizer, etc. The plant has figured out how to keep going with what you are doing. ...(It could be LESS water, etc.) so adding more of something at that point has more often than not had a deleterious effect.

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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