Sabal Palmetto Height Questions

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

I am well aware that in California, Washingtonias get very tall.  sometimes around 90-100 ft.  Ive also noticed that in florida, wild Sabal Palmetto can get around the same height.  It just takes longer to get there.  Here are some pictures from Inverness Florida.  Note these are not pictures I took, though I was there around a year ago.  The last Picture is in South Carolina.  I know it takes longer, but why do I rarely see palmettos above 30-40 ft exept in the wild.  on the highways I see wild palmettos, but they are usually under 20ft.  If nurseries sold Palmettos above 40ft wouldnt you think they would make more money?  In the cities the Palmettos though more of them exist, are usually flanked by some larger, more impressive Washingtonia.  Even other, more beutiful palms such as Royals and Coconuts that have been known to top 80-100ft are usually smaller when cultivated then the Washingtonias.  Why is this?  Can anyone answer these questions?

[NorthFlpalmguy]

I can only answer a limited part of your question. Very few palmettos are sold over 20ft because the demand is low, you can't fit many on a trailer, and they are harder to plant and pull. The most popular range are 8-16ft clear trunk (CT) and I would dare to say 95% or more are in this range, at least from our area. Less than 8ft CT fewer survive being hurricane cut and taken from the wild, therefore most under that size are container grown from seed and slowwwwwww growers.

[PalmatierMeg]

Nurseries in FL usually don't carry S. palmettos and other Sabals because they are considered common, at least in FL, and take years to reach sellable size. Washies grow in a fraction of the time. An occasional Washy has reached stratospheric heights in FL but are rare because they almost invariably are nuked by lightning. As for those tall, ancient Sabals I can't say what their secret for height and long life is. Most BB garden centers sell Washies but not private or specialty nurseries. As they are not native palms, cognizant palm growers in FL recognize they can be invasive. I have one and can attest to pulling up 1000s of tiny invaders from my back yard over the years. But Sabals beat Washies hands down in cold hardiness.

[Walt]

Sabal palmettos don't get as tall as Washingtonia robusta nor are they anywhere near as fast growing. The record height for Sabal palmetto in Florida was 90 feet. This palm used to reside in Highlands Hammock State Park, in Highlands County, Florida, near Sebring, Florida. I live about 15 miles from the park. About 10 years ago I went to the park and asked a ranger just where the palm was located. He told me the palm had been killed by lightning and that they needed to take measurements to see what currently the tallest Sabal palmetto was. Whether they did or not I do not know.  Currently, the state champion Sabal palmetto is in Levy County, and measures 84 feet tall.

 

 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

Thank you all for your help.  Ive always prefered Sabals for some reason.  Maybe its becuse you can find them wild growing in swamps and on the beaches, while washingtonias are 99% cultivated and the wild ones are in the desert.

[Bill H2DB]

      Many a neglected yard has has as many Sabal seedlings being mowed ( when they bother to mow ) , as it has blades of grass.

My son in law's yard being a fine example thereof . It has the usual neighborhood Sabals , and is never watered , with dog poop as a basic nutrient , and has' eleventy two million Sabal seedlings  , and the usual crap Bermuda grass , sand spurs  etc . 

[junglegalfla]

I inherited a couple with this house. This place was built in 1962. It's about 30'. I admit I never gave them much thought prior but when the sun sets behind this palm its a thing of beauty. A surprising favorite. They thin with age & can be very graceful. Just takes decades!

[PalmTreeDude]

Sabal Palmettos take sooooo long to get a trunk over 20 foot tall. Once they get a trunk about 8 feet tall, it seems like it takes forever for them to grow. The wild ones where most likely there for over 50 years. They have been un touched and they have been grown from seed in the same spot they are in now. The ones planted places are mainly grown from nurseries, then once planted they go into shock for awhile, then they have to get an established root system. Then after that it simply takes a long time.

Edited June 4, 2016 by PalmTreeDude
Typo

[topwater]

When I bought my house in 2000, the previous owner blessed me with 6 fifteen year old Washies.  Ten years later, just as I was gloating that mine were approaching LA proportions, lightening took the 2 tallest ones. The next year a third tree was struck and took out several thousand dollars of stereo, TV, computers, all on a very pricey surge protector.  They were replaced by shorter palms, but I miss my giant Washies.  The greater Houston area is flat as a tortilla and tall Washies unfortunately make perfect lightening rods. 

[Walt]

One thing I learned is that Sabal palmetto respond to palm special fertilizer. When I bought my property in 1998 I had about eight trunked Sabal palmettos growing naturally on it. One of them happened to be growing next to my concrete driveway slab. My wife made a flower bed around the sabal; hence, we fertilized the plants. Well, today you can clearly see the timeline in the palm's trunk, where once we started fertilizing the trunk diameter increased.

Some years later a Sabal palmetto seedling sprouted next to the original Sabal palmetto in the flower bed. This seedling grew very fast and is now less than two feet shorter at the point where the spears emerge. No doubt this fast growth is a result of fertilization.

 

[RedRabbit]

It is fairly rare to see sables over 40', I think the tallest I've seen were maybe 60'. 

[RedRabbit]

Here are some fairly tall one's I've seen in Port Orange:

 

I think the building in the background is 5-6 stories.

Edited June 5, 2016 by RedRabbit

[Matthew92]

These were off of palmpedia:

Gainesville, FL. Photo by Kyle Wicomb

"2 very tall palms in front of an 1880's house in Palatka Florida, in the South Historic District." Photo by Eric S.

"A very tall specimen in Crescent city in front of another 1880s home. The tree is an old massive Camphor Tree (Cinnamomom camphora). Palatka Florida, in the South Historic District." Photo by Eric S.

 

 

[Brad Mondel]

Would installing a lightening rod on a very tall palm save it from getting zapped? 

[RedRabbit]

25 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

Would installing a lightening rod on a very tall palm save it from getting zapped? 

That would just ensure it gets zapped. lol 

[smithgn]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2016‎ ‎9‎:‎50‎:‎20‎, Walt said:

Sabal palmettos don't get as tall as Washingtonia robusta nor are they anywhere near as fast growing. The record height for Sabal palmetto in Florida was 90 feet. This palm used to reside in Highlands Hammock State Park, in Highlands County, Florida, near Sebring, Florida. I live about 15 miles from the park. About 10 years ago I went to the park and asked a ranger just where the palm was located. He told me the palm had been killed by lightning and that they needed to take measurements to see what currently the tallest Sabal palmetto was. Whether they did or not I do not know.  Currently, the state champion Sabal palmetto is in Levy County, and measures 84 feet tall.

 

 

Such a shame. I actually have a question of my own... Why is it you don't see palmettos get even close to the height that they do in Florida in the wild? I haven't spent a lot of time in the rural coastal areas of South Carolina but I can't recall seeing any towering palmetto's except for maybe Hunting Island. I know the further north you go, there's a shorter growing season but you'd think there would be some photos like the first poster had of Florida, in South Carolina as well? Maybe off of a highway or road instead of a state park?

28 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

Would installing a lightening rod on a very tall palm save it from getting zapped? 

Lol this seems silly but you actually have a very good point. I wonder?

[Dave-Vero]

In my part of town, the fate of sabals is to be removed.

I need to apply fertilizer at the edge of my yard to speed up my neighbor's trunking Sabal.

[junglegalfla]

Here is my other one, I like how sabals will get curves in their trunk. I took out a large diseased monkey pod tree in 2014 and I suspect for years, this one sought out light. This lean is toward morning sun. Now its tall enough for all day. 

[Yunder Wækraus]

8 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

That would just ensure it gets zapped. lol 

I read somewhere that expensive palms do have lighting protection added in some places. Can't remember where I read that, though.

[Brad Mondel]

10 hours ago, smithgn said:

Such a shame. I actually have a question of my own... Why is it you don't see palmettos get even close to the height that they do in Florida in the wild? I haven't spent a lot of time in the rural coastal areas of South Carolina but I can't recall seeing any towering palmetto's except for maybe Hunting Island. I know the further north you go, there's a shorter growing season but you'd think there would be some photos like the first poster had of Florida, in South Carolina as well? Maybe off of a highway or road instead of a state park?

Lol this seems silly but you actually have a very good point. I wonder?

I've seen some pretty tall ones just north of charleston growing in a swamp, they weren't as tall as Floridas Sabals but they were huge for South Carolina's standards. I'm guessing the shorter growing season and cold temperatures keep them from growing too tall. The taller they get the more vulnerable to cold they are. A lightening rod would absorb the electricity and divert it to the ground, thus saving the palm. 

[topwater]

Most of the really old palms in my town are W. filiferas, these guys have been around since the sixties and don't attract lightening like the robustas. 

[topwater]

The trunks get quite gnarly looking  with time. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

18 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Here are some fairly tall one's I've seen in Port Orange:

 

I think the building in the background is 5-6 stories.

I believe these palms were planted here.  My question is when?  they look to be at least 100 something years old!! hopefully lightning doesnt kill them off anytime soon, thanks for sharing the picture!!

[RedRabbit]

14 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I believe these palms were planted here.  My question is when?  they look to be at least 100 something years old!! hopefully lightning doesnt kill them off anytime soon, thanks for sharing the picture!!

I think they may be natural actually. That building is <40yrs old and there are many sables in that area considerably older so I think they just built around them where they could.

[JLeVert]

I was just checking and the two record Sabal palmettos in Georgia (as of 2007) are in Reidsville, GA:  55' (crown 18') and Saint Marys, GA:  60' (crown 12').  I've seen the one in Saint Marys and have seedlings growing from it in Augusta, GA.  

 

 

[JLeVert]

Here is the tree in Saint Marys, GA.  Sorry about the quality of the photo.  Actually sorry about the quality of the photographer (me).

[JMBreland]

One possible reason why cultivated palmettos don't grow as tall as the wild palmettos could be that the wild palmettos often start out in the shady understory. So, they go into an accelerated growth mode reaching the canopy seeking light. Once there, the growth slows down. Cultivated palmettos, OTOH, are usually not planted in such a shady situation, thence it takes them longer to reach such heights.

 

[Kris]

Great visuals. ..

Thanks,

Kris.

[Matthew92]

Tall S. palmetto in downtown Tallahassee. I like the full crown.