Farankaraina forest - Maroansetra - Madagascar

[olivier971]

During our 2016 trip, after Tampolo in the Masoala, we visited a protected forest called Farankaraina, between Maroansetra and the Masoala National Park. A quite interesting reserve on little hills near the coast.

Some photos

Dypsis lutescens

Dypsis mocquerysiana

Dypsis faneva

Dypsis forficifolia

 

 

 

[Josh-O]

32 minutes ago, olivier971 said:

During our 2016 trip, after Tampolo in the Masoala, we visited a protected forest called Farankaraina, between Maroansetra and the Masoala National Park. A quite interesting reserve on little hills near the coast.

Some photos

Dypsis lutescens

Dypsis mocquerysiana

Dypsis faneva

Dypsis forficifolia

 

 

 

stunning habitat pictures..

keep them coming  

[jardinierpalmiertrat]

very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pedro 65]

I want 10 of these, thanks Oliver, look fwd to more pics, thanks for keeping PT   "Lively"...  Pete   

[olivier971]

Dypsis sp. "long petioles"

Ravenea sp.

Dypsis boiviniana

Dypsis lastelliana

Dypsis sp. tsaravoasira

 

[Pedro 65]

Hi Oliver, thanks for more pics, much appreciated.

Oliver, Ive said this SO many times but does your eye see in POM book that John D has put in as Tsaravoasira is "Identical" to  what is called Ampasindavae esp the strongly recurved fronds/leaves, our lagest Amp or whatever it is has over 2ft width at its base.  For some reason I cant open 3 of yr pics incl Tsara so can you pls repost  Tsara  pic and tell me yr thoughts on the POM pic..

Thanks in advance.   Pete  :)

[doranakandawatta]

Olivier

These Dypsis lutescens seem to have solitary trunks or loose clumps, can this be because of the habitat or because they belong to a subspecies?

Anyway and more important: thanks again for all these pictures.

[olivier971]

2 hours ago, doranakandawatta said:

Olivier

These Dypsis lutescens seem to have solitary trunks or loose clumps, can this be because of the habitat or because they belong to a subspecies?

Anyway and more important: thanks again for all these pictures.

Not really  Philippe, most of them are clumping, the same than in our garden ...

Bu what we observed is that tall lutescens were quite rare. I don't know if it's because they stay quite little in this area, or if they were broken by hurricane

[olivier971]

6 hours ago, Pedro 65 said:

Hi Oliver, thanks for more pics, much appreciated.

Oliver, Ive said this SO many times but does your eye see in POM book that John D has put in as Tsaravoasira is "Identical" to  what is called Ampasindavae esp the strongly recurved fronds/leaves, our lagest Amp or whatever it is has over 2ft width at its base.  For some reason I cant open 3 of yr pics incl Tsara so can you pls repost  Tsara  pic and tell me yr thoughts on the POM pic..

Thanks in advance.   Pete  :)

Pete,

Whish photos you didn't manage to see ?

D ampasindavae and tsaravoasira seem to be very closed species, both with leaves in 3 ranks and regular leaflets. I think with just the photos of POM it's impossible to differenciate them.

The main differences are the size of fruits and seeds. Seeds of tsara are round and very little (5 mm) with homogeneous endosperm (see above). Seeds of ampasindavae are bigger  (10 mm) with ruminate endosperm.

D ampasindavae live in a very specific area, one of the rare big Dypsis that live on West Coast. I think the habitat on west coast and East Coast are very different and that's why i don't think D ampasindavae could be found on East Coast... But why not.

Effectively, the one i called D sp. aff. tsaravoasira "big seeds" in the Masoala seems to be very closed to D ampasindavae and it would be a very interesting surprise to find this species on West Coast !!

I think there are maybe some uncertainties in what coul be called as tsaravoasira. During this trip, we found some diferent specimens all closed to tsaravoasira but with differences.  So i don't know exactly what is tsara and what is not ..

During this trip , we visited also the Makira protected area (a lot of photos coming soon ). We found there that i think its the true D tsara with its specific seeds :

 

 

 

 

[olivier971]

Pete, here some photos of the true D ampasindavae taken by my friend Christian MARTIN of Palmeraie-Union in Nosy be

 

[Josh-O]

I thought Dypsis (sp)?. tsaravoasira was not positively Identified in the wild or cultivation?

[Josh-O]

awesome pictures Oliver!

keep them coming

[Pedro 65]

Thanks Oliver for above long comment, yes this pic looks just like our Amps and which are very thick trunked big dypsis, no doubt youve seen some of ours on Palmpeadia, again which looks identical to POM pic of tsaro. Call me impatient but Ive never seen a pic of a  large trunked Tsaro with strong recurved leaves/fronds. In all pics Ive seen they look very skinny with much thinner leaflets, very much like orange crush. Look fwd to your next Pics. Im always curious on whats really what  Thanks again for all your input here on PTalk Oliver..Much appreciated..     Pete  

                                                                

[olivier971]

5 hours ago, Pedro 65 said:

Call me impatient but Ive never seen a pic of a  large trunked Tsaro with strong recurved leaves/fronds. In all pics Ive seen they look very skinny with much thinner leaflets, very much like orange crush.                            

Sorry Pete, but the tsara we saw in Makira had large trunk and recurved leaves. And sure it was tsara (because of the seeds). So, according to me, all of this are not really criterias. Palms you have in your gardens are young, those are very older, perhaps hundred-years-old ... And in habitat, they often differ a lot than what you usually saw in gardens...

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by olivier971

[Palms4Steve]

Awesome photos Oliver. Love the habitat shots.

[Monòver]

Nice pictures and thanks for the info!!!

[edric]

On 6/19/2016, 4:27:14, Josh-O said:

I thought Dypsis (sp)?. tsaravoasira was not positively Identified in the wild or cultivation?

Hi Josh, Here's Dr. Dransfield at Jeff Marcus's, in 2008, the caption reads, Floribunda Palms, Hawaii, Dr. John Dransfield makes positive identification 2008, photo by BGL

[Pedro 65]

Yes Ed, thats correct for 2008, before that it was called Ceracea, then Tsarovoasira, now Apasindavae, I can eat, digest and accept what  has Oliver has said  above but the Pic in POM of Tsara is an  Ampasindavae, which would be old but "still" has strong recurved fronds/leaves and the "standout" difference " is Ampasindavae has more upright leaflets like the pic on page 154 and just like this pic.  Pete

[edric]

12 hours ago, Pedro 65 said:

Yes Ed, thats correct for 2008, before that it was called Ceracea, then Tsarovoasira, now Apasindavae, I can eat, digest and accept what  has Oliver has said  above but the Pic in POM of Tsara is an  Ampasindavae, which would be old but "still" has strong recurved fronds/leaves and the "standout" difference " is Ampasindavae has more upright leaflets like the pic on page 154 and just like this pic.  Pete

Ok Pete, check the info that I've entered in these two species pages, and see if you agree with all of the changes I've made,  thanks, Ed

[Pedro 65]

20 minutes ago, edric said:

Ok Pete, check the info that I've entered in these two species pages, and see if you agree with all of the changes I've made,  thanks, Ed

Ed, Just keep your glasses on, have a strong coffee and  have a good day. Ive  actually never seen a Tsaravoasira in anyones garden, but I certainly havnt seen every thread here on PTalk.

Pete  

[olivier971]

Pete, once again, you put in palmpedia all my photos, even those i'm not sure of the identifications.

As i told you before, you'd better not put in palmpedia the photos of specimens that the identification is not sure. That's why, according to me, there are a lot of wrong identifications in Palmpedia, particulary on Dypsis.

When i write "sp." in titles of photos, it's because i'm not sure at all of the identification. So for those, you'd better not put them in palmpedia, even if the photos are great. 

As for example, you put in palmpedia my photos of  Dypsis sp. aff. tsaravoasira "big seeds". As i told before, i called it like is because it seems to be closed to tsaravoasira, but sure it is not because of the size of the seeds. So, this is not tsaravoasira, and i don't know for the moment what it is ...

It's the same for some others, Dypsis sp. forficifolia ...

[olivier971]

1 hour ago, olivier971 said:

Pete, once again, you put in palmpedia all my photos, even those i'm not sure of the identifications.

Sorry, of course i wanted to tell that to Ed, not Pete ;-)

[edric]

Sorry Olivier, I'd should have noticed the 'sp.' Ed

[dmc]

Some unbelievable photos thankyou!

Dominic 

[Josh-O]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang!

did I open a can of worms ..lol

Just making some observations. So far I have not read any guaranteed literature on a true ID.

Just Aff like picture like the one above. JM had these on his list last year and he didn't know if they were the real thing and called them aff tsaravoasira over the phone.

I've always enjoyed a good dypsis mystery  

cheers,

Josh