Sabal Uresana SE Hardiness

[Jtee]

1 hour ago, knikfar said:

Some of them survived the 2021 cold event in Dallas. And that's more extreme than anything experienced here in Raleigh in recent history. So it might just be about getting plants from a known cold hardy specimen. Have you watched the Palms R Kool videos on YouTube? That guy lives in Tega Cay, SC, a climate almost identical to Raleigh. And he's growing all kinds of things I'd never try. 

His palms look really good coming out of winter! 
 

I am curious though of how many people on palm talk actually have sabal uresana. I don’t see much talk about them.  I planted one last august and it saw some tip burn. 

[teddytn]

3 hours ago, knikfar said:

Some of them survived the 2021 cold event in Dallas. And that's more extreme than anything experienced here in Raleigh in recent history. So it might just be about getting plants from a known cold hardy specimen. Have you watched the Palms R Kool videos on YouTube? That guy lives in Tega Cay, SC, a climate almost identical to Raleigh. And he's growing all kinds of things I'd never try. 

Watched a few of his videos, I’ll have to check out some more. There’s no doubt that everywhere is changing little by little climate wise. That’s very true imo, a lot of people will argue that point both ways, but I’m a firm believer in there being stronger and weaker “bloodlines” in plants for sure. No way I’m going to argue with palm lord Gary lol

[NCFM]

5 hours ago, teddytn said:

They’ve got them for sale at Gary’s nursery. Gary said they’re iffy long term where he’s at, told me not to waste my money lol

I purchased a 3 gal from Mr. Hollar last summer and planted it at my grandparents' place in Emerald Isle.  Hoping to get down there soon and remulch and fertilize it.  According to Mr. Hollar there is a huge one in nearby Beaufort, NC but I haven't seen it. 

[teddytn]

1 hour ago, NCFM said:

I purchased a 3 gal from Mr. Hollar last summer and planted it at my grandparents' place in Emerald Isle.  Hoping to get down there soon and remulch and fertilize it.  According to Mr. Hollar there is a huge one in nearby Beaufort, NC but I haven't seen it. 

Atlantic beach/ Emerald Isle is a special place. I’ve been taking trips to barrier islands since I was a kid, that’s a super laid back beach town. I was amazed by how many species of palms were growing there. Jubea, butia, palmetto, med fan, saw palmetto, tons of Trachycarpus (cool to see by the beach). The massive sabals minors back inland on the bay side, at just random gas stations and fast food spots was crazy to see. Spotted some in the 7-9 foot range. Definitely need to take a trip back there. I have no doubt Uresana would grow there.

[NCFM]

5 hours ago, teddytn said:

Atlantic beach/ Emerald Isle is a special place. I’ve been taking trips to barrier islands since I was a kid, that’s a super laid back beach town. I was amazed by how many species of palms were growing there. Jubea, butia, palmetto, med fan, saw palmetto, tons of Trachycarpus (cool to see by the beach). The massive sabals minors back inland on the bay side, at just random gas stations and fast food spots was crazy to see. Spotted some in the 7-9 foot range. Definitely need to take a trip back there. I have no doubt Uresana would grow there.

Yeah it's a special place for sure - I'm very fortunate to be able to visit every summer.  Hopefully that uresana I planted will do well.  I'm only down there once or twice per year so it wont get the same care my palms at home do.  But sabals seem to be fairly low maintenance so I'm hoping for the best. 

[RJ]

5 hours ago, teddytn said:

Atlantic beach/ Emerald Isle is a special place. I’ve been taking trips to barrier islands since I was a kid, that’s a super laid back beach town. I was amazed by how many species of palms were growing there. Jubea, butia, palmetto, med fan, saw palmetto, tons of Trachycarpus (cool to see by the beach). The massive sabals minors back inland on the bay side, at just random gas stations and fast food spots was crazy to see. Spotted some in the 7-9 foot range. Definitely need to take a trip back there. I have no doubt Uresana would grow there.

Judaea ? Inquiring minds want to see 

[Dartolution]

Anyone know of a good seed source for this sabal?
Theres some guy selling them on eBay but when I inquired about his seed source he said "I cannot disclose the exact location..." 

[redbeard917]

On 4/27/2022 at 10:45 AM, Jtee said:

Any update on this one? 

Still alive. Getting choked by the shrubs and smilax vines that grow up through them. It doesn't really have the best color, for some reason. Looks more green. In the next few months I will probably get around to hacking out all the competing vegetation. I can post a "before" picture soon. It is indeed fully cold hardy here. I have a larger one near my house.

[Collectorpalms]

20 hours ago, knikfar said:

Some of them survived the 2021 cold event in Dallas. And that's more extreme than anything experienced here in Raleigh in recent history. So it might just be about getting plants from a known cold hardy specimen. Have you watched the Palms R Kool videos on YouTube? That guy lives in Tega Cay, SC, a climate almost identical to Raleigh. And he's growing all kinds of things I'd never try. 

There are at least two distinct forms, I am not even convinced they are even the same palm. The silver one, that is very upright and stiff when young is one you want for hardiness and color. The gray-green one is nice, but not as cold hardy. Its faster, but my brother lost his in Austin, and I nearly lost 1 of 3 at my place. 1 still hasn't sent out a full leaf over a year later.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[knikfar]

I saw sabal uresana for sale at Big Bloomers yesterday, in Sanford NC. They were small plants but only $10 each. 

[LeonardHolmes]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:34 AM, teddytn said:

They’ve got them for sale at Gary’s nursery. Gary said they’re iffy long term where he’s at, told me not to waste my money lol

I bought one from Gary last year and it surprised me with a bloom stalk this spring.

 

 

[Collectorpalms]

32 minutes ago, LeonardHolmes said:

I bought one from Gary last year and it surprised me with a bloom stalk this spring.

 

 

Your picture is of a sabal minor.

[teddytn]

On 4/29/2022 at 9:10 PM, RJ said:

Judaea ? Inquiring minds want to see 

I had to look back through pics when I was there. Doesn’t look like I took a pic of the jubeas I saw. Nothing really to see, maybe 2 feet of trunk. At a random convenience store on the main strip. 

[buffy]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:34 AM, tlow said:

I have to ask... pictures? lol

Here it grows

[teddytn]

1 hour ago, buffy said:

Here it grows

That’s badass it made it through -5f

[Allen]

1 hour ago, buffy said:

Here it grows

Super nice looking palm!  You talked about protecting palms during the big freeze before.  Was this one protected?

[Sabal King]

17 hours ago, teddytn said:

That’s badass it made it through -5f

Speechles... but it's the power of the sabal.. are we surprised?

[LeonardHolmes]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:38 PM, Collectorpalms said:

Your picture is of a sabal minor.

Looks a lot like one - but this is definitely a different palm

[Collectorpalms]

14 minutes ago, LeonardHolmes said:

Looks a lot like one - but this is definitely a different palm

Sabal Minor grows along side Sabal Brazoria.  Nothing alike at that age. I stand by the fact that is a minor, but if you are the expert then, what is it? Ask Gary.

[Joe NC]

8 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Sabal Minor grows along side Sabal Brazoria.  Nothing alike at that age. I stand by the fact that is a minor, but if you are the expert then, what is it? Ask Gary.

 

8 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Sabal Minor grows along side Sabal Brazoria.  Nothing alike at that age. I stand by the fact that is a minor, but if you are the expert then, what is it? Ask Gary.

I will say... when I purchased a Brazoria from Gary's place... 

There was a lineup of unlabeled young small Sabals,  handful of each of the type that they had (Brazoria, uresana green, LA minor, BHI, maybe another or two?).  The woman who helped me told me what each group was, except the order of the lineup changed once or twice.

I could see how one could end up with a different Sabal than you expected.  Sometimes I flip flop on if I actually ended up with a Brazoria or not.      

[Collectorpalms]

3 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

 

I will say... when I purchased a Brazoria from Gary's place... 

There was a lineup of unlabeled young small Sabals,  handful of each of the type that they had (Brazoria, uresana green, LA minor, BHI, maybe another or two?).  The woman who helped me told me what each group was, except the order of the lineup changed once or twice.

I could see how one could end up with a different Sabal than you expected.  Sometimes I flip flop on if I actually ended up with a Brazoria or not.      

I had a nursery for 10 years and collected and grew habitat Sabal Brazoria. I know what a brazoria looks like. Imposters are over 50% regardless of reputation/ Mistakes are made. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Allen]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:34 AM, teddytn said:

They’ve got them for sale at Gary’s nursery. Gary said they’re iffy long term where he’s at, told me not to waste my money lol

uresana, So weird seeing some survive and some not.  I even thought about getting one after seeing this thread then I saw one on Youtube about 3 foot tall burned to the ground at 16F

[Joe NC]

3 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I had a nursery for 10 years and collected and grew habitat Sabal Brazoria. I know what a brazoria looks like. Imposters are over 50% regardless of reputation/ Mistakes are made. 

Yeah my first "Brazoria" (from a different seller) grew 8' of trunk in 12 years....

Once it made some giant seeds, I knew it was definitely a Mexicana (which is neat, but not the Brazoria I was after). 

[Joe NC]

Here is mine in SE NC 8a.  Has sailed through whatever weather it has been dealt unprotected in the ground over the last few years. Totally unaffected by the ice storm this past winter.  Slowly chugs along, putting out about 3 fronds per-year, but doesn't seem to want to hold on to more than 3 or 4 fronds at a time.

"Blue highlands form"  

Photo is from yard clean up this winter (so many canna/ginger/banana stalks)... Wheelbarrow for scale.

[Collectorpalms]

32 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

Here is mine in SE NC 8a.  Has sailed through whatever weather it has been dealt unprotected in the ground over the last few years. Totally unaffected by the ice storm this past winter.  Slowly chugs along, putting out about 3 fronds per-year, but doesn't seem to want to hold on to more than 3 or 4 fronds at a time.

"Blue highlands form"  

Photo is from yard clean up this winter (so many canna/ginger/banana stalks)... Wheelbarrow for scale.

It looks like mine at that age. but I do not have that form but "doesn't seem to want to hold on to more than 3 or 4 fronds at a time." You correctly pointed out an issue to address.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[teddytn]

2 hours ago, Allen said:

uresana, So weird seeing some survive and some not.  I even thought about getting one after seeing this thread then I saw one on Youtube about 3 foot tall burned to the ground at 16F

Definitely some hardier “bloodlines” in all palms/ plants I would say. With sabals especially I think the amount of summer heat and sun they get relates to winter hardiness to some degree. I’ve definitely stepped into the danger zone for what will survive long term at my house. Unfortunately I’ll have to pass on a uresana

[amh]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I had a nursery for 10 years and collected and grew habitat Sabal Brazoria. I know what a brazoria looks like. Imposters are over 50% regardless of reputation/ Mistakes are made. 

At what age or growth stage, can true Sabal brazoria be differentiated from Sabal minor?

[Collectorpalms]

Ill try to get some pictures of seedlings sprouted under the mother tree. But they are well over 3 feet tall in 5 gallons in 3 years, while a minor, well it can still be in a 9 inch strap leaf liner under same conditions. Ill try to compare, Mexicana, Louisiana, Brazoria, Palmetto, and Brazoria strap leaf seedlings under mother plants. All slow if not grown in a nursery setting to begin with. There are wild sabal minor a couple miles from me as well ( stream bed ).

Edited May 17, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[LeonardHolmes]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:48 AM, Collectorpalms said:

Sabal Minor grows along side Sabal Brazoria.  Nothing alike at that age. I stand by the fact that is a minor, but if you are the expert then, what is it? Ask Gary.

This “uresana” had 3 sets of labels from several years back.  Some were hard to read but they all said Sabal uresana. Gary identified for it and pointed-out the bluish color as suggesting it was one of the less-hardy uresanas.   They are certainly hard to tell apart when young, so maybe it is a minor.  The leaves are more compact and regular than most Sabal minors in my yard.  I’ll let you know in 10 or 15 years.

[Collectorpalms]

25 minutes ago, LeonardHolmes said:

This “uresana” had 3 sets of labels from several years back.  Some were hard to read but they all said Sabal uresana. Gary identified for it and pointed-out the bluish color as suggesting it was one of the less-hardy uresanas.   They are certainly hard to tell apart when young, so maybe it is a minor.  The leaves are more compact and regular than most Sabal minors in my yard.  I’ll let you know in 10 or 15 years.

I can say none of the three palm in that picture are of either Sabal Uresana form that I have seen. ( I am a bit of a seedsman, so I collect and grow seeds that I take from parent palms when I can, )I am always suspicious of any seed I do not collect myself because I have been burned with with seed and plants over and over again. Sabal Minor, is a bit of a weird one though. They are distinct forms of that one. I have 3 or 4 types in my yard. But Uresana will not flower for at least 15 years old, with several feet of trunk, and Brazoria, blooms maybe a little earlier, much shorter like a Louisiana at that age, but will have trunk almost formed like Louisiana ( which is a bit quicker).  I do not have a flowering Birmingham, so I cannot comment on that one. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[LeonardHolmes]

9 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I can say none of the three palm in that picture are of either Sabal Uresana form that I have seen. ( I am a bit of a seedsman, so I collect and grow seeds that I take from parent palms when I can, )I am always suspicious of any seed I do not collect myself because I have been burned with with seed and plants over and over again. Sabal Minor, is a bit of a weird one though. They are distinct forms of that one. I have 3 or 4 types in my yard. But Uresana will not flower for at least 15 years old, with several feet of trunk, and Brazoria, blooms maybe a little earlier, much shorter like a Louisiana at that age, but will have trunk almost formed like Louisiana ( which is a bit quicker).  I do not have a flowering Birmingham, so I cannot comment on that one. 

The larger upright palm is supposed to be domingensis.  It is obviously the fastest growing so far (1 year in the ground) but is the least likely to survive.  The smaller is x brazoriensis.  

The 5 that I planted (new pic) are supposed to be (clockwise from left top) Sabal x brazoriensis, S. palmetto (fat boy from NC- hiding in the back), S. Birmingham (twin palms), S. uresana (x minor?), and S. domingensis. 

[Joe NC]

9 hours ago, LeonardHolmes said:

This “uresana” had 3 sets of labels from several years back.  Some were hard to read but they all said Sabal uresana. Gary identified for it and pointed-out the bluish color as suggesting it was one of the less-hardy uresanas.   They are certainly hard to tell apart when young, so maybe it is a minor.  The leaves are more compact and regular than most Sabal minors in my yard.  I’ll let you know in 10 or 15 years.

I think the length of the inflorescence and the number of "orders" it is branched into (looks like 2 from the photo) are pieces of diagnostic evidence that the flowering palm in the foreground is likely a minor.

Sabal minor have flower stalks that extend well beyond the edge of the foliage (plant in foreground has flower stalk that extends 2 to 3x the length of the fronds), and branch two times (2 orders) from the main stalk.

I can't quickly find a diagnostic key for uresana at the moment, but from photos it looks like the inflorescence is held mostly within the fronds and it branches to at least 3 orders. 

[Jtee]

I bought this as a five gallon uresana, it looks a lot different than the one in your pic. 

[RJ]

This one is growing at riverbanks zoo in Columbia 

[Collectorpalms]

On 6/8/2022 at 2:31 PM, RJ said:

This one is growing at riverbanks zoo in Columbia 

That is the inland slow growing form . 

[Collectorpalms]

These are the Coastal Forms. They are faster overall with heavier fronds.

[Meangreen94z]

The palm in question is definitely a Sabal minor. Here is how Sabal uresana develops.

[JeskiM]

@Meangreen94z

That picture above with the two seedlings in the pot;  Do you know if those are the Coastal or Highlands form ?

I have a seedling with coloration just like that, except that mine is a year or so behind yours.

-Matt

Edited June 13, 2022 by JeskiM

[Meangreen94z]

2 hours ago, JeskiM said:

@Meangreen94z

That picture above with the two seedlings in the pot;  Do you know if those are the Coastal or Highlands form ?

I have a seedling with coloration just like that, except that mine is a year or so behind yours.

-Matt

Those are the highlands form, those pictures are from a couple years ago