Archontophoenix question

[enigma99]

I'm a sucker for buying Archontophoenix varieties, especially when there is a sale at my local Lowe's for one that is overgrown and looks healthy. Unfortunately though, sometimes these can be growing into dirt before they are shipped and slowly die after planting. Or could be severely overgrown in the pot.

 I have quite a few in my garden, lost count after 50. Problem with these and other root sensitive palms is they can go into shock mode and never recover or they take a long time. It can be really hard to watch palms next to it grow healthy and fast and some die a slow death.

I have two specimens that I am contemplating pulling and replacing with something healthy. Last thing I want is a palm dying and making the ground toxic with some kind of disease.

 I would like to see what others would do? Wait or count your losses and plant something else?

This one has been in the ground for 2 years, had never really grown much and finally this August is starting to dry up. Perhaps it has given up

 

[Ben in Norcal]

That's not a root problem, IMO, it's a crown fungus.  Treat it and it'll power through - Archontophoenix will power through, trust me.  Dwight brought me a crown-rotted king last year and it's taking a year to come back, but it's throwing perfect fronds now. In that case it had an awesome beatrice-like trunk, so I wanted to give it every chance.  That thing has trunk too, leave it!

 

[enigma99]

Yeah it was in shock mode and now appears to have crown rot. Treated my shock archies with h2o2 tonight. I'm just too impatient maybe

[Jim in Los Altos]

Funny, I've dug up and transplanted several Archontophoenix aged 3 years to 20 years old and have never lost one despite cutting through lots of roots. I frankly don't understand the difficulty others seem to have with this genus. Daily watering may be the trick. Since Archontophoenix is nearly an aquatic palm genus, you can't drown them. Keep them wet until established and producing regular sized fronds. I agree with Ben on the one pictured. Fungus seems to be the problem. Treat for that and keep those palms well watered and you should see positive results.

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 8/6/2016 at 6:08 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Funny, I've dug up and transplanted several Archontophoenix aged 3 years to 20 years old and have never lost one despite cutting through lots of roots. I frankly don't understand the difficulty others seem to have with this genus. Daily watering may be the trick. Since Archontophoenix is nearly an aquatic palm genus, you can't drown them. Keep them wet until established and producing regular sized fronds. I agree with Ben on the one pictured. Fungus seems to be the problem. Treat for that and keep those palms well watered and you should see positive results.

Expand  

Great looking kings as always, Jim!  The one thing I have found is that you do need to keep water out of the crown in our high heat (Derrick's is even worse than mine obviously.)  That's probably true for just about any palm, but they do seem quite susceptible to crown rot if you spray the crown.  I did that in the early days and learned not to - you just need to keep the roots wet as you say. 

[enigma99]

Yeah I try tonbe careful about water getting in the crown but who knows hopefully h2o2 will help it pull out

Jim, your Kings look close together but seem perfectly healthy. How much is your spacing? I am always trying to see how close I can squeeze these in

[Ben in Norcal]

That threesome of Jim's is interesting.  Must have been planted as singles.

 

[Tyrone]

  On 8/6/2016 at 6:08 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Funny, I've dug up and transplanted several Archontophoenix aged 3 years to 20 years old and have never lost one despite cutting through lots of roots. I frankly don't understand the difficulty others seem to have with this genus. Daily watering may be the trick. Since Archontophoenix is nearly an aquatic palm genus, you can't drown them. Keep them wet until established and producing regular sized fronds. I agree with Ben on the one pictured. Fungus seems to be the problem. Treat for that and keep those palms well watered and you should see positive results.

Expand  

Man you garden's good Jim.

[enigma99]

  On 8/7/2016 at 12:43 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

That threesome of Jim's is interesting.  Must have been planted as singles.

 

Expand  

Yeah looks like 7 total in a small area. I have been spacing mine further apart but looks like I could go closer if I wanted

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 8/7/2016 at 1:50 AM, enigma99 said:

Yeah looks like 7 total in a small area. I have been spacing mine further apart but looks like I could go closer if I wanted

Expand  

Derrick, They're much more robust planted close together in my climate. Low humidity and hot temperatures don't harm them and they shrug off cold weather too. I like a natural rainforest atmosphere and many of my trunking king palms are volunteers that I've allowed to stay right where they germinated. 

Ben, those three kings in my turf were dug up and split when they were almost 20 years old and then transplanted into an 8' x 3' rectangle hole 2 1/2 feet deep. They never skipped a beat other than a temporary growth slowdown.

[enigma99]

  On 8/7/2016 at 2:13 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Derrick, They're much more robust planted close together in my climate. Low humidity and hot temperatures don't harm them and they shrug off cold weather too. I like a natural rainforest atmosphere and many of my trunking king palms are volunteers that I've allowed to stay right where they germinated. 

Ben, those three kings in my turf were dug up and split when they were almost 20 years old and then transplanted into an 8' x 3' rectangle hole 2 1/2 feet deep. They never skipped a beat other than a temporary growth slowdown.

Expand  

You inspired me to do a huge planting tomorrow. Had a ton of archies etc and I think I will just squeeze them in!

Edited August 7, 2016 by enigma99

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 8/7/2016 at 2:13 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Derrick, They're much more robust planted close together in my climate. Low humidity and hot temperatures don't harm them and they shrug off cold weather too. I like a natural rainforest atmosphere and many of my trunking king palms are volunteers that I've allowed to stay right where they germinated. 

Ben, those three kings in my turf were dug up and split when they were almost 20 years old and then transplanted into an 8' x 3' rectangle hole 2 1/2 feet deep. They never skipped a beat other than a temporary growth slowdown.

Expand  

It looks like all 3 have some pretty close rings; maybe 2-3 feet up on the left two, maybe 4 feet up on the right guy?  I wonder if that's when you split them/transplanted?

Anyway, looking great as always!

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 8/7/2016 at 3:44 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

It looks like all 3 have some pretty close rings; maybe 2-3 feet up on the left two, maybe 4 feet up on the right guy?  I wonder if that's when you split them/transplanted?

Anyway, looking great as always!

Expand  

Nah, just under watered way back when I didn't know better. I have a picture somewhere of when They were first transplanted and I'll see if I can dig it out. Those kings were at least fifteen feet tall at that time.

[Jim in Los Altos]

That's them from a different angle in this pic taken in 2005. The three are in the background and those little Illawarras in the foreground are 25'+ today.

[Jim in Los Altos]

 Here are a few more Arch shots from the garden.

[enigma99]

Those are looking good. Hope to see your garden soemday!

[Tropicgardener]

Overcrowding is not an issue in their natural habitat.................... Archontophoenix alexandrae in habitat in Conway National Park (just down the road from my place here).

[Dave-Vero]

Florida doesn't do that sort of tall and dense, except maybe with bald-cypress swamps.  Gotta visit, maybe after the next trip to NZ.  

I've had six Archontophoenix in the yard.  One A. cunninghamiana possibly had a boron deficiency, then maybe boron poisoning from providing too much.  It never fully regained its health, persisting in having collapsed leaves, so I had it, a big one in the ground for 12 years, removed recently.  A younger A. cunnninghamiana still has a short trunk but a really big, plush crown.  Three A. tuckeri are happily flowering, fruiting, and having children.  Squirrels move the seeds around and possibly plant them.  They seem quite happy in a dense planting.  A. maxima in the front yard developed frizzy leaves over the winter (a warm one) but has now put out a perfect new leaf.  I gave it nutrient-rich palm fertilizer and some extra liquid palm minerals. It's been a fast grower; it'll rise above a young live oak that finally started growing seriously this summer.  

Archontophoenix in Florida doesn't seem to have made the big box stores like Home Depot and Lowe's, although I haven't put much effort into seeing what they have.  For some reason, they just don't seem to have become popular in our part of Florida.  Mine are from a local grower and Leu Botanical Gardens.  All planted when young.  Might as well enjoy them while they're cute.   You can see an A. tuckeri on the left in this sort of zombie palm setup earlier tonight.  The silvery undersides (abaxial) are great for catching light, much like the Latania undersides in front.  

[Daryl]

I have to admit that the Archontophoenix I saw in Florida didn't seem too happy compared to the ones back home. I think it may be the soil that they don't like. The Californian grown ones seem OK though...Jim's look nice and healthy.

I am surprised that they get crown rot though. Here they are subjected to high summer temps and humidity/rain etc, but I've never seen any crown rot...other issues yes, but mainly due to insects or lightning etc

Here are some growing near my new place...

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 8/7/2016 at 10:22 AM, Daryl said:

I have to admit that the Archontophoenix I saw in Florida didn't seem too happy compared to the ones back home. I think it may be the soil that they don't like. The Californian grown ones seem OK though...Jim's look nice and healthy.

I am surprised that they get crown rot though. Here they are subjected to high summer temps and humidity/rain etc, but I've never seen any crown rot...other issues yes, but mainly due to insects or lightning etc

Here are some growing near my new place...

Expand  

Daryl, Tap water in the palm's crown in warm weather versus rain seems to be the problem. I don't know if it's been explained why here on the forum, but there seems to be a consensus of thought regarding crown rot.

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 8/7/2016 at 5:42 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Daryl, Tap water in the palm's crown in warm weather versus rain seems to be the problem. I don't know if it's been explained why here on the forum, but there seems to be a consensus of thought regarding crown rot.

Expand  

That's exactly it.  No issues with winter rains, but when I used to spray the crowns (thinking they'd like the humidity) - rot.

[Daryl]

  On 8/7/2016 at 5:42 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Daryl, Tap water in the palm's crown in warm weather versus rain seems to be the problem. I don't know if it's been explained why here on the forum, but there seems to be a consensus of thought regarding crown rot.

Expand  

Wow, what's in your tap water? 

 

[Daryl]

  On 8/7/2016 at 6:23 PM, Ben in Norcal said:

That's exactly it.  No issues with winter rains, but when I used to spray the crowns (thinking they'd like the humidity) - rot.

Expand  

I do it here to my smaller palms...never seen this type of issue though.

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 8/8/2016 at 12:42 AM, Daryl said:

I do it here to my smaller palms...never seen this type of issue though.

Expand  

Not sure what it is, but definitely invites rot here.  Maybe we get hotter? (Lots of 100+ degree days in summer).  Maybe it's what its in our water.  I don't know but if you spray crowns of kings all summer here - I just about guarantee one will get rot.  They usually power through it but it can be a bit unsightly for a while.

[Daryl]

Ben, what about other palm species...do they get rot as well?

 

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 8/8/2016 at 12:48 AM, Daryl said:

Ben, what about other palm species...do they get rot as well?

 

Expand  

Honestly, never really sprayed in the crowns of others.  I naively did it with Archies because I thought they'd like it as a rainforest palm.  Not so much.

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 8/8/2016 at 12:48 AM, Daryl said:

Ben, what about other palm species...do they get rot as well?

 

Expand  

Daryl, Yes. Many palms here suffer from crown rot during the summer if overhead watered. We don't get cleansing rains here during summer so any accumulated calcium and other minerals in our mineral rich water may have something to do with it. I've seen spears pulled out of Butia, Parajubara, Archontophoenix, Brahea, Dypsis, and others. I hose down most of my palms occasionally without harm. The problem is with habitual several times per week wetting. 

[enigma99]

  On 8/8/2016 at 2:01 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Daryl, Yes. Many palms here suffer from crown rot during the summer if overhead watered. We don't get cleansing rains here during summer so any accumulated calcium and other minerals in our mineral rich water may have something to do with it. I've seen spears pulled out of Butia, Parajubara, Archontophoenix, Brahea, Dypsis, and others. I hose down most of my palms occasionally without harm. The problem is with habitual several times per week wetting. 

Expand  

I have been really careful with spraying, not sure why mine got crown rot. I also suspect unhealthy palms are more likely to be bothered by overhead watering. 

Today 9 A. Alexandreas went in the ground that I had growing in 20g pots (originally 3 gal). Can't wait until they get bigger!

[enigma99]

Well, I cut this one down since it continued to decline. It was drying up to the spear... Luckily the other two in the triple look fine.

So here is what I found out...

Top/spear was healthy. Bottom trunk had the pink. Over the last couple of years, soil washed down and gradually buried the trunk. It was a good 3 inches in the soil. This compromised the trunk and allowed the pink and other stuff set in. Sucks

Tomorrow I am going to check the whole garden to make sure no other palms are buried. Hate when I kill my trees. Good reminder though for everyone else here to make sure your archies don't get buried even if unintentional