Growth rate study of palms at Fairchild botanical gardens

[john_tas]

Possibly posted before? A few surprises here, only really useful when compared to similar climates I guess

http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2001/growthrate.htm

[Dave-Vero]

Nice paper, based on meticulous record-keeping.  Of course the 1992 hurricane had some effects.  Lots of palms blown over, reset.  Of course Carpentaria is at the fast end.  I have one racing up through a laurel oak.  

 

[john_tas]

Didn't realise Sabal palmletto was so slow, I knew it wasn't fast. I just planted out a 1ft seedling. If they only grow 6cm/yr in warm native habitat then I can expect very slow growth where I am!

interestingly brahea armarta which often gets a bad rep for being slow is growing 18cm/yr which is good progress by my standards 

Edited August 29, 2016 by john_tas

[Yunder Wækraus]

On 8/28/2016, 5:28:53, john_tas said:

Possibly posted before? A few surprises here, only really useful when compared to similar climates I guess

http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2001/growthrate.htm

My math is weak, but couldn't one extrapolate a potential age of 270-odd years for a tall cabbage palm on the basis of these data?

[Zeeth]

29 minutes ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

My math is weak, but couldn't one extrapolate a potential age of 270-odd years for a tall cabbage palm on the basis of these data?

That would give an age of 426 years for the state champion S. palmetto!

I'd add though that the soil in that area of Miami is super shallow, and the S. palmetto in the surrounding area are notoriously dwarfed because of this. I wouldn't be surprised if that 6 cm/year figure is fudged a bit because of that.

Here's a picture that Eric in Orlando posted before of a S. palmetto in the area:

[Dave-Vero]

There's been a doctoral dissertation on Sabal palmetto growth rate at the University of Florida.  They are extremely slow.  A reason why it's terrible for people to wantonly destroy old specimens.  

[RedRabbit]

First I've seen of this... That's some great info, thanks for sharing!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Sabal palmetto doesn't have to be so slow.  In good soil and within their native range in full sun, it takes about 10 years to begin growing a trunk.  After that they can grow 1 foot (30cm), per year.  The fella that told me that grew the Palm from seed he collected as a graduate student.  He is a Palm talker but I don't know his forum name.  So the palmetto data reflects growth in the poor soil conditions of So FL only.  

[Dave-Vero]

You could hold a turtle race, Sabal palmetto vs. Livistona chinensis.  The latter will have about a 20 foot trunk in 30 years.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

If mine is typical, throw Livistona mariae in there too...a 3-way turtle race.  

[tim_brissy_13]

My Sabal palmetto has been quite fast. Planted in 2003 from a seedling it is now 4-5m tall (about 1' per year growth). It has well and truly outpaced nearby Steve mexicana, Jubaea x Butia, Brahea armata and Steve causiarum. I've also got a Livistona chinensis planted even earlier that is still only about 1m tall - truly a snail.

[john_tas]

Just planted this palmletto out in Tasmania at around 42deg Lat...so I won't be seeing any trunk for a while by the sound of it..

 

 

[john_tas]

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

My Sabal palmetto has been quite fast. Planted in 2003 from a seedling it is now 4-5m tall (about 1' per year growth). It has well and truly outpaced nearby Steve mexicana, Jubaea x Butia, Brahea armata and Steve causiarum. I've also got a Livistona chinensis planted even earlier that is still only about 1m tall - truly a snail.

There is hope then even for me in tassie!

[john_tas]

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

My Sabal palmetto has been quite fast. Planted in 2003 from a seedling it is now 4-5m tall (about 1' per year growth). It has well and truly outpaced nearby Steve mexicana, Jubaea x Butia, Brahea armata and Steve causiarum. I've also got a Livistona chinensis planted even earlier that is still only about 1m tall - truly a snail.

Any pics Steve?

[Dave-Vero]

This Sabal palmetto at Christchurch Botanic Gardens seems to have suffered wind damage, which is really odd--they're among the most wind resistant of palms at home; I suspect the climate may make for weak leaves and slow growth.  A couple of days after taking the photo, I had to scrape ice off my car's windshield (I more or less survived driving on the wrong side). The trunkless Sabal minor seems to have the same leaf sturdiness problem but is otherwise quite healthy.  Of course the ones in my back yard are about 2 m tall.  No trunks, just big leaves.

[Yunder Wækraus]

So how old do we think sabal palms can get? And if buccaneer Palms Grew as slow as the paper says in habitat how old do we think the tall ones in older photographs must have been my apologies for typos I'm using the speak in the microphone function

[Pal Meir]

Potted snail race in Germany: Livistona chinensis 9 years vs Sabal palmetto 22 years (both from seeds).

[Zeeth]

17 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

Potted snail race in Germany: Livistona chinensis 9 years vs Sabal palmetto 22 years (both from seeds).

I wonder how long S. palmetto will last outdoors in Germany. Here's one planted at the botanical garden in Freiburg (I thought it looked more like Sabal minor but it was labelled S. palmetto).

[Pal Meir]

49 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

I wonder how long S. palmetto will last outdoors in Germany. Here's one planted at the botanical garden in Freiburg (I thought it looked more like Sabal minor but it was labelled S. palmetto).

I too don’t believe that it is S palmetto, but it is as you said S minor. Labels on palms are not at all reliable in German BGs …

[Zeeth]

1 minute ago, Pal Meir said:

I too don’t believe that it is S palmetto, but it is as you said S minor. Labels on palms are not at all reliable in German BGs …

I guess it's better if that's the case for the long-term survival, as it's planted outdoors.

[john_tas]

30yrs...that's an insult to a snail 

[kirkhutch]

This is great data. I just purchase a Ravenea hilderbrandtii in my Floribunda order. By the looks of it I will be lucky if it is a meter tall in 30 years!! 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

28 minutes ago, kirkhutch said:

This is great data. I just purchase a Ravenea hilderbrandtii in my Floribunda order. By the looks of it I will be lucky if it is a meter tall in 30 years!! 

Much easier to protect dwarf palms.