Can I constrain the height of a coconut palm?

[dreamregent]

I am planning a large tropical greenhouse in West Virginia and I would like to grow a fruit-bearing coconut palm or two. I can meet its heat and humidity requirements. However, I am not building a greenhouse 100 feet tall and I need to be able to constrain its height. With palm trees, it doesn't seem like I can do this via pruning. Is it possible to keep the tree under 30 feet by constraining its roots? Also, If I do that, would it bear fruit?

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Hello there.  Welcome to the forum!   Hope you enjoy it and those of us here and find it useful!   

Short answer is no.    That said,depending on how much space you have there are "dwarf" varieties of coconut palms, but "dwarf" is very relative here.  Many coconuts get 60-80 feet tall or more in time. They are after all considered large trees for a reason.    Dwarf varieties tend to stay in the 20-60 foot range as far as hight.  Another thing to consider is the size of the crown.  You're going to still need a large indoor space to accommodate it.   It's going to. E a challenge for sure.  But if you have space and a 30 foot high or more ceiling, you just might be able to pull it off.   Good luck and let us know how it goes.  

[Xenon]

A dwarf type would suit your wishes for many years (they also bear fruit when much younger)...just replace it when it gets too tall? 

[dreamregent]

What is a good dwarf variety? Also, I've seen photos where people have gotten palm trees to grow in all sorts of shapes. One photo I've seen had 2 palm trees with their trunks tied together in a knot. How do you train a palm tree to do something like that?

Edited October 18, 2016 by dreamregent

[Zeeth]

If you're going to do that with a coconut, I'd try a Fiji dwarf if you can meet the other requirements. They stay short for much longer than any other variety.

 

[dreamregent]

thanks for the advice. I'll be looking into this further.

[Cluster]

I also think Fiji Dwarf might be a good bet, I have read they can grow up to 25 ft but usually less. There are also some asiatic varieties that might grow even less, for example the Chowghat orange dwarf http://www.cogentnetwork.org/images/publications/catalog/countries/India_86-91.pdf, but it is probably hard to find one. The Fiji dwarf shares more traits with the talls than dwarfs (besides its height and shorter fronds), though, and will have a pronounced bole at its base and probably will curve more, but it does not self pollinate, so you will need two of them to get fruits or aid the palm to fruit, eg hand-pollination. The chowghat will self pollinate and offers the sweetest coconut water, but won't display the tall traits, like thicker trunks, presence of a bole and larger fronds, the fruits will be orange before they get 100% mature. Hope this helps.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Cluster

[Zeeth]

1 hour ago, Cluster said:

I also think Fiji Dwarf might be a good bet, I have read they can grow up to 25 ft but usually less. There are also some asiatic varieties that might grow even less, for example the Chowghat orange dwarf http://www.cogentnetwork.org/images/publications/catalog/countries/India_86-91.pdf, but it is probably hard to find one. The Fiji dwarf shares more traits with the talls than dwarfs (besides its height and shorter fronds), though, and will have a pronounced bole at its base and probably will curve more, but it does not self pollinate, so you will need two of them to get fruits or aid the palm to fruit, eg hand-pollination. The chowghat will self pollinate and offers the sweetest coconut water, but won't display the tall traits, like thicker trunks, presence of a bole and larger fronds, the fruits will be orange before they get 100% mature. Hope this helps.

I'd like to note that dwarf coconuts are self-fertile, but they don't auto-pollinate, so OP would likely have to hand-pollinate either variety to get any sort of yield, since they won't be grown outside where bees would normally do the job.

[Cluster]

Hello Keith.

You are probably right if there are no bees and wind they both might need aid. Cogent uses the term self-pollination so I thought it to be correct, regardless if they actually need pollinators.

[GottmitAlex]

Can myophily also apply to Coconut palms? Or is pollination limited to bees and wind for that species?

[dreamregent]

8 hours ago, Zeeth said:

I'd like to note that dwarf coconuts are self-fertile, but they don't auto-pollinate, so OP would likely have to hand-pollinate either variety to get any sort of yield, since they won't be grown outside where bees would normally do the job.

I was actually planning to raise and use bumble bees for pollination (they can work inside a greenhouse, whereas honeybees can't). Will they do the trick? I already keep honeybees so collecting pollen to feed the bumble bees when nothing is in bloom is not a problem. Although, I'm having trouble sourcing tropical bees. If the local ones can't stand the heat inside that particular greenhouse, I will be forced to pollinate by hand. As an aside, I plan to build several greenhouses, each with a different climate -- humid subtropical, hot arid desert, tropical rainforest, hot summer Mediterranean and another which I simply want to keep from freezing. I'm not solely growing palms but I do want to grow several...I'm planning for date palms as well but I've already worked out a solution for that one. The palms are really the only plants I was having trouble accommodating because of their size...anything else either won't get that big or I can control it via pruning. I own a large farm/forest and have south-facing slopes in which I plan to embed these greenhouses. I was planning on a subterranean floor 10 feet below grade with a roof 20 feet above grade. I may be able to accommodate taller palms if I let them grow until they reach 30 feet and then dig deeper inside the greenhouse and transplant so the base is at a lower level...but I'm not sure how deep I can get without hitting bedrock. I have a large farm tractor with most of the implements needed for excavation and whatnot. For heating, I've planned redundant methods for charging various sorts of thermal batteries so I'm not beholden to the exterior weather. I'll be using a geothermal system, solar power & wood stovepipe water heaters for radiant heat as well as masonry heaters, all of which I'm able to build myself (and I have a practically unlimited supply of firewood). I also have solutions for controlling humidity. It probably seems ambitious but I have the skills to do much of the work myself...with hired help here and there...and finding the time to devote, of course.

Edited October 19, 2016 by dreamregent

[Zeeth]

3 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Can myophily also apply to Coconut palms? Or is pollination limited to bees and wind for that species?

That's a good question, but I'm not sure to be honest. I can say that coconuts that I've seen growing in greenhouses have abysmal fruit set compared to ones in the elements. Some trees did have a few fruit though, so that could be from flies (or something else).

[Zeeth]

39 minutes ago, dreamregent said:

I was actually planning to raise and use bumble bees for pollination (they can work inside a greenhouse, whereas honeybees can't). Will they do the trick? I already keep honeybees so collecting pollen to feed the bumble bees when nothing is in bloom is not a problem. Although, I'm having trouble sourcing tropical bees. If the local ones can't stand the heat inside that particular greenhouse, I will be forced to pollinate by hand. As an aside, I plan to build several greenhouses, each with a different climate -- humid subtropical, hot arid desert, tropical rainforest, hot summer Mediterranean and another which I simply want to keep from freezing. I'm not solely growing palms but I do want to grow several...I'm planning for date palms as well but I've already worked out a solution for that one. The palms are really the only plants I was having trouble accommodating because of their size...anything else either won't get that big or I can control it via pruning. I own a large farm/forest and have south-facing slopes in which I plan to embed these greenhouses. I was planning on a subterranean floor 10 feet below grade with a roof 20 feet above grade. I may be able to accommodate taller palms if I let them grow until they reach 30 feet and then dig deeper inside the greenhouse and transplant so the base is at a lower level...but I'm not sure how deep I can get without hitting bedrock. I have a large farm tractor with most of the implements needed for excavation and whatnot. For heating, I've planned redundant methods for charging various sorts of thermal batteries so I'm not beholden to the exterior weather. I'll be using a geothermal system, solar power & wood stovepipe water heaters for radiant heat as well as masonry heaters, all of which I'm able to build myself (and I have a practically unlimited supply of firewood). I also have solutions for controlling humidity. It probably seems ambitious but I have the skills to do much of the work myself...with hired help here and there...and finding the time to devote, of course.

It sounds like you have your work cut out for you, but you're on the right track. I'd definitely go with a Fiji dwarf in those circumstances. 

 

 

[Cluster]

I want one too , is the one at its side not true to the type? Or just too old?

[Zeeth]

26 minutes ago, Cluster said:

I want one too , is the one at its side not true to the type? Or just too old?

There's a large grouping of them, and one out of the group isn't true to type.

Ones that are true to type will remain short for a long time. This one was posted by another palmtalk member a while back. It's 40 years old.

[GottmitAlex]

How long does does the Fiji dwarf variant take to produce fruit for the first time?

[Zeeth]

2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

How long does does the Fiji dwarf variant take to produce fruit for the first time?

It's variable depending on growth conditions, but it's usually 5-8 years (similar to a tall type coconut).

[Walt]

When I was in the navy stationed in Key West, Florida, I met a retiree who lived on Sugarloaf Shores (about five miles north of Key West). He owned a bar up in Michigan, retired from the business, and he and his wife moved to the Florida Keys to live out their final days. Anyway, he claimed he once grew a coconut palm in his bar room and that it grew up to the ceiling, then turned down, grew back down to the floor and then turned up again. He wasn't drunk when he told me this! However, I have strong doubts concerning his story.

[PalmTreeDude]

28 minutes ago, Walt said:

When I was in the navy stationed in Key West, Florida, I met a retiree who lived on Sugarloaf Shores (about five miles north of Key West). He owned a bar up in Michigan, retired from the business, and he and his wife moved to the Florida Keys to live out their final days. Anyway, he claimed he once grew a coconut palm in his bar room and that it grew up to the ceiling, then turned down, grew back down to the floor and then turned up again. He wasn't drunk when he told me this! However, I have strong doubts concerning his story.

Interesting, I know Washingtonia and Sabal palmettos of been know to grow in some funky ways, with coconuts? I am not too sure...