Looking for Palm With large Fronds No Trunk

[Briank]

Hello Friends!

 

I am looking to plant something different.. I know their options I just don't know which would work for me in San Diego.

 

Looking for a cool Palm, that doesn't trunk, were the Fronds just come up, they can droop, they can be erect, doesn't matter.. For some reason of the ones I have seen, they just look cool to me! Cant for life of me remember all the Palms that are like this!

 

LIke this Palm: Johannesteijsmannia magnifica ( However I know this Palm probably would not do well in our Dry CLimate )

But you get my point and thought.  Any opinions are welcome! Thanks!

[PalmTreeDude]

I am sure you already know about this one, but Sabal minor. They don't really trunk (maybe after 50 years you will start to really see one) and the fronds, if planted in part shade can get really long, but not "massive." 

[PalmTreeDude]

But they do like their water...

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Copernicia textilis will look like a fountain of leaves coming out of the ground for quite a long time

 

 

[Kailua_Krish]

Some of the atteleas look like that

[kurt decker]

Texas, those are c. rigida. Textilis is a baileyana x hospita hybrid, quite different

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

46 minutes ago, kurt decker said:

Texas, those are c. rigida. Textilis is a baileyana x hospita hybrid, quite different

Sorry about that. I had a photo of the palms and tag at fairchild on my phone.  I must have mixed the pics  up.

[Kim]

Marojejya darianii has huge semi-undivided leaves, and it takes a very long time to trunk.  Mardy Darian had them growing on his hillside garden under significant canopy, but they didn't get really big, maybe 1/4 the size of this one in Hawaii:

This Marojejya is about 15 ft. in height, and somewhat wind-tattered, but you get the idea.  In California it will need shade, cold air drainage, and wind protection.

[Josh-O]

ravenea sambiranensis  oh my...

attalea cohune is another palm you can grow as well in you palm camp

[Briank]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2016‎ ‎9‎:‎27‎:‎10‎, Kim said:

Marojejya darianii has huge semi-undivided leaves, and it takes a very long time to trunk.  Mardy Darian had them growing on his hillside garden under significant canopy, but they didn't get really big, maybe 1/4 the size of this one in Hawaii:

This Marojejya is about 15 ft. in height, and somewhat wind-tattered, but you get the idea.  In California it will need shade, cold air drainage, and wind protection.

I love this Palm! But have yet to see anyone in So Cal have any luck.  I think Dooms Dave has tried if I remember, and he's killed a few  Maybe give it a try, I am sure Josh has some Laying around his Paradise Of Palms! Josh-O? Where you at? LOL.

[Briank]

1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

ravenea sambiranensis  oh my...

attalea cohune is another palm you can grow as well in you palm camp

Hmmmmm And I got one of those, From You of Coure! Still sitting in its Pot! THink Im gonna pull that one FoxTail you saw that was struggling in Backyard.  I wish more Copernicia's would grow faster and better here! HMMMMMMMMMM wait, you have that nice Tahina Spectabilis  LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!! YEah your not letting that baby go anytime soon hahahaha

[Briank]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎17‎:‎42‎, kurt decker said:

Texas, those are c. rigida. Textilis is a baileyana x hospita hybrid, quite different

Copernicia's Just don't do well out here, I love them too! I think I have the most popular growing type in CA, but it seems only Alba and Prunifera have success out here, and some people have had success w Macroglossa's, Like Josh has a bunch. If that Macroglossa was blue, I give it a try lol

[Briank]

1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

ravenea sambiranensis  oh my...

attalea cohune is another palm you can grow as well in you palm camp

Josh! Are you trying to Sell me More PALMS! Cause its working!!!! @Josh-O!!!! Set one aside, PM the Price, Ill be by this week unless I have to Save up a little to get it. LOL..... I still haven't got that damn trunk out for that Sausage Tree! Need to get It out this week!

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, Briank said:

Copernicia's Just don't do well out here, I love them too! I think I have the most popular growing type in CA, but it seems only Alba and Prunifera have success out here

 

On 10/30/2016, 5:58:22, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Copernicia textilis will look like a fountain of leaves coming out of the ground for quite a long time

Looking down on my C textilis, aka baileyana x hospita.  I have another, smaller one in another part of the yard.  Not speedy, but I have slower genus/species than these two.  Probably does better here in Southern California coastal areas than either of the parents due to the hybrid vigor.

[Sabal Steve]

17 hours ago, Briank said:

Copernicia's Just don't do well out here, I love them too! I think I have the most popular growing type in CA, but it seems only Alba and Prunifera have success out here, and some people have had success w Macroglossa's, Like Josh has a bunch. If that Macroglossa was blue, I give it a try lol

Brian, 

 

I have a C. macroglossa that has done great.  Hassle free, and doesn't mind soggy soils.  But, with any Copernicia, you'll want to plan ahead, so that it has a sunny spot for days to come.  I still have that C. alba if you want it.  My C. alba is in pure, un-amended clay.

[Tracy]

21 minutes ago, Sabal Steve said:

But, with any Copernicia, you'll want to plan ahead, so that it has a sunny spot for days to come.

An excellent reminder!  Mine are both among Encephalartos cycads, with plenty of setback from anything that will block sunlight getting to them.  If those cycads ever get bigger than the Copernicia, I have to admit I could have much worse problems!

[Briank]

On 11/1/2016, 4:32:28, Sabal Steve said:

Brian, 

 

I have a C. macroglossa that has done great.  Hassle free, and doesn't mind soggy soils.  But, with any Copernicia, you'll want to plan ahead, so that it has a sunny spot for days to come.  I still have that C. alba if you want it.  My C. alba is in pure, un-amended clay.

I'll take it steve.  Shoot and I was just down by your house yesterday.  Still under the weather I'll hit you up when I get better. 

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

Sabal mauritiiformis possibly  the prettiest sabal and will do well for you Brian

[Xerarch]

Nypa fruticans

[Kim]

So awesome!  This palm was a shocker to me when flying into Kuching, Malaysia, on the island of Borneo.  I looked below as the plane glided toward the earth, and I saw this palm massed everywhere below, these huge, trunkless leaves reaching upward.  I will never forget it. such a magnificent impression.

Unfortunately, impossible to grow in water-starved Southern California.

 

[Zeeth]

2 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Nypa fruticans

I wonder how this palm would do in the coconut zone of Central Florida in an area of mangroves. I've thought that if I end up with enough money to buy some coastal property with mangroves in the salt marsh that I'd give it a try, but I don't know what their cold tolerance is. 

[DoomsDave]

On 10/30/2016, 9:27:10, Kim said:

Marojejya darianii has huge semi-undivided leaves, and it takes a very long time to trunk.  Mardy Darian had them growing on his hillside garden under significant canopy, but they didn't get really big, maybe 1/4 the size of this one in Hawaii:

This Marojejya is about 15 ft. in height, and somewhat wind-tattered, but you get the idea.  In California it will need shade, cold air drainage, and wind protection.

and water water water blurb blurb blurb urk

Oh, and plenty of water.

Just trust a murderer  . . .

[DoomsDave]

Sabal mauritiformis FOR A WHILE, like decades?

Giant Licuala erupting from the ground, finally trunking. When hell freezes over? When sanity reigns? Or not?

Attelea

Raphia, for a while

Kim's suggestion, Marojejya darianii, but lots of water. Yeah, said, but well

call the water company

[dalmatiansoap]

What's wrong with nice Cycad sp.?

[BPK Palm Addict]

I say you can't go wrong with a nice attalea cohune.

[PalmatierMeg]

Several species of Attalea have no trunk and send up a fountain of long fronds. I've been wanting one for a while but they are almost impossible to find.

[Mantis sp.]

Cyclanthaceas are a nice choice if you have a pond. Also some Chamaedoreas, Salaccas (S. magnifica) , Arengas (A. hookeriana), Chamaerops, zamias sp. 

[Merlyn]

I'm also looking for a "big frond" type, but in a "cold zone 9b" on the North side of Orlando it's a little bit tougher to find one that will survive in ground.  I have a few Beccariophoenix Alfredii planted that are currently 5-7' tall OA, and these grow a 15-20' tall "fountain of fronds" before they start trunking.  I have a front yard spot that is currently under water oak canopy, but open to NW winds in the winter.  The canopy is going to be cut down next spring because the 70' tall water oaks are at their ~40 year age and height limit and are starting to drop really large branches that threaten the house and cars.

Because I already have several Beccariophoenix Alfredii that will be 3-5 years to get to the full frond length, I'm looking for something else that would be good for a currently semi-shaded area that will turn into a full sun spot next year.  I've run across a few options:

Allagoptera caudescens: Sun tolerant after 3-5' of height, reportedly good to 25F or so before dying at 22F.  Slow growing, 15-20' fronds with 12-20' diameter at the start of trunking:

Attalea cohune: Painfully slow growing but sun tolerant and might survive 20F with complete defoliation.

Caryota gigas / obtusa / maxima "Himalaya": The big fishtails don't grow giant fronds until they start trunking, but gigas 20' long x 12' wide fronds are impressive!  Undamaged @ 26F at Leu Gardens, though some report severe damage in the mid to upper 20s.  Others say they have survived heavy frosts, several low 20s nights in Jacksonville and *possibly* an 18F defoliation.  It flowers and dies at 30' tall in 10-15 years old in central FL per Eric @ Leu.  

Copernicia baileyana / fallaense: Grows 6ft+ diameter fans before trunking, is happy in the sun and supposedly survives 20F defoliations too.

Elaeis guineensis: Slow growing fountain of leaves up to 30-50ft diameter, but defoliates anywhere below 30F and struggles in central FL.

Johannesteijsmannia altifrons: Huge solid leaves up to 20ft tall and 15ft wide, but may not survive in a borderline 9b-9a area. Requires wind protection and heavily filtered sun.

Kerriodoxa elegans: Giant fans but also requires wind and sun protection, survives 26F with moderate damage.

Kentiopsis oliviformis: Really nice 10 foot fronds, but not quite the 20 foot monsters of other species.  Known to handle 25F without serious damage.

Licula Grandis: Huge wild fans, but marginal in central Florida at best.  Defoliated at 26F, killed to the ground at 22F in Daytona but regrew from the roots.

Raphia farinifera: It grows a similar fountain of 10-20 foot long fronds as the Attalea cohune. It's unknown if it will survive central FL lows, but is known to to handle some sub-freezing temperatures and reported to recover from a 22F defoliation in Daytona.

Tahina spectabilis: Wild 15 foot diameter fans, but very rare and with unknown cold tolerance

Any thoughts or suggestions on the above list?  

[kurt decker]

Try sabal dominguensis. It is massive, has blue leaves, and it can take quite a bit of cold. One of the truly underrated palms.

[Merlyn]

Honestly there are so many Sabal around here that I'm personally not interested in growing any.  But I did some additional searching and found Eric's 2009-2010 freeze damage report.  In CFL you can pretty much cross off Johannesteijsmannia altifrons, Elaeis Guineensis, Licuala Grandis, Marojejya darianii and Raphia farinifera.  Licuala Grandis might make a good "patio plant" if you have a big patio, but only if protected.

The Tahina spectabilis seems like a possibility, Leu's young specimen planted out in the open survived the extended 2009 freeze events with only minor damage.

In an open sunny spot my choices seem to narrow down to Allagoptera caudescens, Attalea cohune, Caryota gigas / obtusa, Copernicia baileyana / fallaense, Kentiopsis oliviformis or possibly Tahina spectabilis. I already have a silver-blue Bismarckia in the next bed over, so I'm kind of inclined towards something pinnate and find a different spot for a Tahina if they turn out to be cold hardy here.  I'm kind of thinking Allagoptera, Attalea or Caryota for this particular spot.  The Allagoptera and Attalea are so slow growing that I might just end up with a Caryota gigas, despite it's obvious disadvantages of growing big, tall, flowering, dying and falling over.  

[joe_OC]

On 10/31/2016, 9:19:21, Josh-O said:

ravenea sambiranensis  oh my...

attalea cohune is another palm you can grow as well in you palm camp

One more vote for Ravenea sambiranensis.  In fact, any of the large Raveneas.

[Darold Petty]

Perhaps the fronds are too small, but Rhapidophyllum hystrix would be an easy grow and totally reliable.

[redant]

While Atelea trunk you may be dead before you see it.  This ones been in the ground a really long time.

[Merlyn]

I really do like the Ravenea fronds, I have 2x 6' of the common big-box store Ravenia Rivularis planted in the front bed.  According to Eric's 2009-2010 freeze data the glauca, hildebrandtii, lakatra, madagascariensis and xerophylla all survived without damage, rivularis and sambiranensis with minor damage and robustior with moderate damage.  The Lakatra seems like it has the biggest fronds of the group, up to 10-12 feet long.  I've seen rivularis with similar 8 foot fronds.  Supposedly the "giant" or "Krociana" are even bigger, but with unknown cold tolerance.

I really like that Attalea, I'm just not sure I want to spend $1000 or wait 10+ years to have a big one!  

[Missi]

On 11/20/2018, 12:22:07, redant said:

We don't need no stinkin' trunks!

[John hovancsek]

I think salacca magnifica or any of the salacca sp will be a great candidate also licuala peltata but get a small trunk after a while but not sure how good they will do for you where you are at

[Alberto]

Arenga micrantha

[Tracy]

On 10/30/2016, 7:17:42, kurt decker said:

Texas, those are c. rigida. Textilis is a baileyana x hospita hybrid, quite different

Agree, here is my Copernicia x textilis (baileyana x hospita).  It will still qualify here in California for what Brian is looking for as it will be relatively slow and won't be forming any trunk for a long time in California.  It will need plenty of sun though and won't want to be shaded out from other plantings.

[Tracy]

On 11/6/2016, 7:57:29, DoomsDave said:

Sabal mauritiformis FOR A WHILE, like decades?

About a decade in my experience here in Southern California.  I have one that is about 2 decades old and it started forming trunk close to 10 years ago.  All the same, it is a beautiful palm and for at least that first 8 years will appear to just be erupting from the ground.  Very few non-palm friends would ever guess it was a palm at that size, but they were always curious about it.

[Tracy]

On 11/20/2018, 7:53:14, joe_OC said:

One more vote for Ravenea sambiranensis.  In fact, any of the large Raveneas.

Ravenea juliettiae is a relatively easy grow, not very common yet, and will hold its leaves very upright for a long time.  That last feature is nice if you are already in a crowded planting space.