What palms CANT you grow in englewood/sarasota florida?

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

Ive seen many types of palms in englewood/venice area of florida.  I see plenty of fruiting cocos, and other zone 10 palms like foxtails.  what cant you grow in this part of florida? considering I may move there in the near future?

[annafl]

I'm just learning about palms, Samurai, but maybe it's better to talk about what CAN be grown in Sarasota/Englewood.  We are borderline for Coconuts.  They are much more apt to survive long term near the coast than inland.  Foxtails are fairly common and do very well.  Bismarckias, Washingtonians, Royals, Sabal palmetto, Dypsis lutescens, Acoelorraphe wrightii, Adonidias, Rhaphis, Phoenix reclinata, Phoenix roebelenii, Queen palms, Phoenix silvestri, CIDP, and some Caryotas are also commonly seen and do well.  Less commonly seen, but things that do well are Burretiokentia hapala,  Kentiopsis oliviformis, Chambeyronia macrocarpa, thrinax radiata, Pseudophoenix sargentii, Allegoptera arenaria, Dypsis pembana, Dypsis lanceolata, Dypsis madagascariensis, some chamaedoreas, livistona chinensis, many coccothrinax, Copernicia macroglossa, Copernicia alba, arengas, Wallichia densiflora and disticha, Archontophoenix alexandria, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Beccariophoenix fenestralis and I'm having trouble thinking of others.  I do grow some Ptychospermas, but they have not been tested over a severe winter here like that of 2009-10.  Off hand, things that come to mind that don't do well are lipstick palms, joey palms, most calyptrocalyx (I have hollrungii, but only the last 3-4 mild winters), most pritchardias (although I've seen hildebrandii do well).  Keep in mind I'm near the coast, so I don't think some coccothrinax nor copernicias (except alba), may make it further inland, not sure.  Coastal areas in this area are 10a, but further inland is 9b.  Good luck, and welcome to Florida!

 

[Zeeth]

33 minutes ago, annafl said:

most pritchardias (although I've seen hildebrandii do well).

Most Pritchardias actually do pretty well in the area as long as they're well watered. P. pacifica and P. thurstonii can't make it through a 2010 type winter (but P. thurstonii is slightly hardier), but all of the Hawaiian Pritchardias are fully winter-hardy, and do fine in summer once established (which is the difficult part, and it involves lots of water and shade for the high-elevation species when young). I've had luck with growing P. munroi, P. arecina, P. affinis, P. beccariana, P. schattaueri, and P. hillebrandii.

[Zeeth]

As far as the wider question goes: We have all of the restrictions of things that South Florida has (so no Lemurophoenix halleuxii, for example), but we also can't grow C. renda (though the hybrid might be a good alternative if one can find it), P. pacifica (though P. beccariana is a good alternative) or Areca catechu. I think that Neoveitchia may also be a no-go, but I'm not aware of many people trying them, and I know they're finicky in South Florida also. I also have a feeling that Metroxylon, Nypa fruticans and Mauritia flexuosa won't grow here either. It's too cold for Pigafetta too. 

Another thing to keep in mind is irrigation. Some places in South Florida can get away with a lot without irrigation because they get some good rain even in the dry season.  Our dry season is usually very dry, and we often don't get the consistent summer showers that you see in South Florida, so irrigation is a necessity.

[RedRabbit]

Why do you think you may be moving there?

[rprimbs]

How about Dictyocaryum lamarckianum?  Does that grow there?

 

[annafl]

11 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Most Pritchardias actually do pretty well in the area as long as they're well watered. P. pacifica and P. thurstonii can't make it through a 2010 type winter (but P. thurstonii is slightly hardier), but all of the Hawaiian Pritchardias are fully winter-hardy, and do fine in summer once established (which is the difficult part, and it involves lots of water and shade for the high-elevation species when young). I've had luck with growing P. munroi, P. arecina, P. affinis, P. beccariana, P. schattaueri, and P. hillebrandii.

Thanks, Zeeth.  I didn't even know there were so many Pritchardias!  I had tried Pacifica and another I don't remember, and both failed miserably even during a mild winter.  I had no idea the others you mentioned existed.  Now I learned something.  Thanks!

[Zeeth]

8 hours ago, rprimbs said:

How about Dictyocaryum lamarckianum?  Does that grow there?

I wouldn't expect it too due to the heat (though I've heard that maybe there has been some success further south?). 

[Zeeth]

5 minutes ago, annafl said:

Thanks, Zeeth.  I didn't even know there were so many Pritchardias!  I had tried Pacifica and another I don't remember, and both failed miserably even during a mild winter.  I had no idea the others you mentioned existed.  Now I learned something.  Thanks!

You're welcome! Some of the Hawaiian species make good stand-ins for the species that we can't grow. P. beccariana is my favorite Hawaiian Pritchardia.

 

P. pacifica can make it for a while between bad winters in good microclimates. This one planted after 2010 at Kopsick in St. Pete has done well, though it usually gets damaged every winter.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

11 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Why do you think you may be moving there?

jobs, cheaper cost of living, and its warm and friendlier.  CT is rated at 2nd unfriendliest state btw.  Can you guess the first?   

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

jobs, cheaper cost of living, and its warm and friendlier.  CT is rated at 2nd unfriendliest state btw.  Can you guess the first?   

Sarasota would be a good option then, Venice and Englewood are much smaller though. You might also want to consider St. Petersburg since it is a much bigger city and generally the bigger the city the more opportunity. St. Pete is all 10a/10b too so it will be warmer than the areas you mentioned unless you're lucky enough to wind up on one of the barrier islands. Bradenton actually wouldn't be a bad option either, but for me it would be between Sarasota and St. Pete. 

[trioderob]

can you grow a jub ?

[Zeeth]

30 minutes ago, trioderob said:

can you grow a jub ?

Nope. I was given some seedlings and they made it a few seasons before the summer humidity eventually killed them. 

[trioderob]

I am standing on a bully pulpit jumping up and down and waving my arms

thats THE palm you guys are missing out on big time

(anyone think it aint ?)

Edited November 5, 2016 by trioderob

[PalmTreeDude]

Majesty palms do well there! They are a good one to grow, a 9b palm, basically bullet proof, from what I have heard, in 10a. 

[PalmatierMeg]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎38‎:‎06‎, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

jobs, cheaper cost of living, and its warm and friendlier.  CT is rated at 2nd unfriendliest state btw.  Can you guess the first?   

Pennsylvania. At least that's what my mother told me. She said the PA motto, "You have a friend in Pennsylvania," was one of the greatest lies ever told.

[PalmatierMeg]

17 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Majesty palms do well there! They are a good one to grow, a 9b palm, basically bullet proof, from what I have heard, in 10a. 

Majesties do well if you are willing to give them all the fertilizer & water you can afford - they are gluttons. Problem is people almost never do so their majesties look awful.

[PalmTreeDude]

3 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Majesties do well if you are willing to give them all the fertilizer & water you can afford - they are gluttons. Problem is people almost never do so their majesties look awful.

If you have a pond, plant them at the very shore of it, i see them thriving around ponds. 

[PalmatierMeg]

The cutoff for many true tropicals is right about the coastal area of Ft. Myers & esp. Cape Coral. East of US 41 and more so I75, coconuts, Adonidias and other tropicals disappear. Punta Gorda, 20 miles north on the coast, is significantly colder than here. At about Tampa, the vegetation switches from subtropical to continental. The scenery could be anywhere in the SE US. Sarasota is not far south of that divide. If you move down there, make sure you are as close to the coast as possible and, preferably, beside a body of water like a river, bay or inlet. My humble abode sits beside an 80' wide freshwater canal that gives off enough heat to up the ambient temp. a precious degree or two in winter that may mean the difference between life and death to my world's smallest jungle.

[PalmatierMeg]

18 hours ago, trioderob said:

I am standing on a bully pulpit jumping up and down and waving my arms

thats THE palm you guys are missing out on big time

(anyone think it aint ?)

Jubaeas caught my eye until I found out they are impossible here. Still wish I could grow Lepidorrhachis.

[RedRabbit]

3 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The cutoff for many true tropicals is right about the coastal area of Ft. Myers & esp. Cape Coral. East of US 41 and more so I75, coconuts, Adonidias and other tropicals disappear. Punta Gorda, 20 miles north on the coast, is significantly colder than here. At about Tampa, the vegetation switches from subtropical to continental. The scenery could be anywhere in the SE US. Sarasota is not far south of that divide. If you move down there, make sure you are as close to the coast as possible and, preferably, beside a body of water like a river, bay or inlet. My humble abode sits beside an 80' wide freshwater canal that gives off enough heat to up the ambient temp. a precious degree or two in winter that may mean the difference between life and death to my world's smallest jungle.

I didn't realize Punta Gorda was colder. I drove though their downtown once and it looked pretty warm to me based on what's grown there... You're right about Tampa though. Some areas are zone 10 and even there it is mostly oaks and other non-tropical stuff. St. Pete is a little better about that at least.

It is obviously true that the further south you go the better for tropicals, but SW Florida is too quiet for me personally. 

[edric]

'madfox'

[PalmatierMeg]

23 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I didn't realize Punta Gorda was colder. I drove though their downtown once and it looked pretty warm to me based on what's grown there... You're right about Tampa though. Some areas are zone 10 and even there it is mostly oaks and other non-tropical stuff. St. Pete is a little better about that at least.

It is obviously true that the further south you go the better for tropicals, but SW Florida is too quiet for me personally. 

You may find that the older you get the more "quiet" appeals to you. I'm a Washington DC native and spent over 40 years living there. My younger son & family live in Rockville, Md. Nothing sedate or quiet about the area, so, yeah, we were ready for quiet, peaceful Cape Coral when we moved away.

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

You may find that the older you get the more "quiet" appeals to you. I'm a Washington DC native and spent over 40 years living there. My younger son & family live in Rockville, Md. Nothing sedate or quiet about the area, so, yeah, we were ready for quiet, peaceful Cape Coral when we moved away.

Yep, you're 100% correct. I'm sure the appeal is greater later in life. I actually wouldn't mind the quiet so much, it is just career wise it is much more of a challenge for most fields when you're not living in an urban location. 

[Zeeth]

5 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Yep, you're 100% correct. I'm sure the appeal is greater later in life. I actually wouldn't mind the quiet so much, it is just career wise it is much more of a challenge for most fields when you're not living in an urban location. 

The more time I spend in Tampa traffic, the more I'm drawn to moving to somewhere quiet when I get the chance.

[RedRabbit]

3 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

The more time I spend in Tampa traffic, the more I'm drawn to moving to somewhere quiet when I get the chance.

No debate there... As a physician I'm sure you'd do very well for yourself in S Tampa, but you could probably do well in Sarasota too. Sarasota is the best of both worlds really, sufficient size and affluence to do well in a career without most of the big city problems.

[Zeeth]

Just now, RedRabbit said:

No debate there... As a physician I'm sure you'd do very well for yourself in S Tampa, but you could probably do well in Sarasota too. Sarasota is the best of both worlds really, sufficient size and affluence to do well in a career without most of the big city problems.

Sarasota is one of my favorite cities in Florida, especially near the coast and out on the barrier islands.