West Texas Palms

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I was out in West Texas today and snapped a few pics. Enjoy

These first washingtonia filifera were in Midland, TX and saw 8 degrees in 2011, with a daytime high of 18.  i saw around 100 filifera around the midland area ranging from small plants to mature ones such as these. additionally there were a few trachycarpus and post 2011 robusta growing. I saw no more than 3 small, aweful looking sabals scattered around town.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Here are a few filifera that i spotted in Pecos, TX which dropped to -1f in February 2011 with consecutive high temperatures of 12 and 15 degrees.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Here was the big surprise of the day, again in Pecos, TX. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

Those are some crazy cold temps brother ... nice to see survival under extreme conditions.

Cheers, Barrie.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

I wonder that makes them able to take such cold out west but not out east?   If these can take that kind of cold surely you'd see them all over parts of Virginia and coastal md /de.   

 

Very nice photos and palms.  Thanks for sharing!  

[Las Palmas Norte]

Perhaps humidity and precipitation play a strong role in survival. Even here (PNW) in my 8b climate, Washingtonia are a real challenge requiring overhead protection to keep the crown dry. Even then it's a crap shoot.

Cheers, Barrie.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

2011 was the coldest blast that Texas had seen since 1989 in many areas of the state.  However you can see how much the temperate rebounds a few days later and it is not abnormal for most of the state to be able to hit 80-90 degrees a few days after an artic blast, which is not possible in the PNW or Eastern US.  Unfortunately these wild swings in temperature are what keeps the majority of Texas from growing a wide range of palm species long term.

High    Low

41  21

19   12

21  12

44  1

64  32

60  30

60   21

82  24

34   17

48  9

61   12

71   15

82   24

72   40

85   29

90   33

86   41

84  42

81   48

88   42

72  49

77   35

81   39

72   47

82  37

86  33

84  38

67  38

[Ben in Norcal]

Nuts.  Forget differences across days - I see 60-degree differentials between highs and lows same day!  Forget that!

[Palm crazy]

Joseph you can’t say that TX has been cold this fall, no sir! Still summer like temps going on.  Here in the PNW it can go from 95F to next day 70F and that’s in summer, LOL! 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Palm crazy

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

21 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

Joseph you can’t say that TX has been cold this fall, no sir! Still summer like temps going on.  Here in the PNW it can go from 95F to next day 70F and that’s in summer, LOL! 

Nope, sure can't as it was 84 today and warmer tomorrow.  I haven't  been below 50 thusfar at the house, but that looks to change this weekend. 

[pin38]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎10‎:‎31‎:‎39‎, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

I wonder that makes them able to take such cold out west but not out east?   If these can take that kind of cold surely you'd see them all over parts of Virginia and coastal md /de.   

 

Very nice photos and palms.  Thanks for sharing!  

The higher and dryer you get, the greater the temp swings and rebound ability after a cold snap (obviously you gotta be in a more southerly location to get the rebound heat).  Plus, very little cold rain in the winter. Here in Denver, the high today is 80 degrees F. The low tomorrow is 23 degrees with chance of snow... not growing washies here any time soon... though it was relatively mild last winter (low of about 6 F)

Edited November 16, 2016 by pin38

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

1 hour ago, pin38 said:

The higher and dryer you get, the greater the temp swings and rebound ability after a cold snap (obviously you gotta be in a more southerly location to get the rebound heat).  Plus, very little cold rain in the winter. Here in Denver, the high today is 80 degrees F. The low tomorrow is 23 degrees with chance of snow... not growing washies here any time soon... though it was relatively mild last winter (low of about 6 F)

My guess is more the cold and wet that really does it.  Cold + wet, especially in crowns = huge problems and often death.   

[PalmTreeDude]

Washingtonia Filifera seem to be the best palm for West Texas! 

[jwitt]

High elevation solar radiation is the key. Many Filifera survived -14f Alamogordo, -11f Corrales, and robusta -5f Las Cruces in New Mexico I. 2011. If it were just the dry you would be seeing the same thing g in Boise and Reno. High and far enough south.  So while the palms saw singl digithighs, the trunks were most assuredly warm to the touch in the sun. A winter solar insulation map clearly shows this out in this region(far west Texas, abq-Elpaso over to Douglas/Bisbes , Az.  The large cidp survived zero in El Paso also!

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Interesting

[jwitt]

This is the winter solar insulation map that shows the region.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Im right on the edge of 3.8.

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

I've spent a lot of time in Midland and Pecos. Take a look at this large CIDP in Pecos:

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

... And this yard in Odessa: 

Wouldn't be surprised if the homeowner was a palmtalk member, but I've never seen anything posted about Odessa.

[Desert DAC]

Not as good looking as the same palms in Las Cruces. But they are at least as good as ABQ or Alamogordo, plus I see some Med Fan Palms that aren't found in the latter 2 towns.

[Desert DAC]

On 12/3/2016 at 11:11 AM, jwitt said:

This is the winter solar insulation map that shows the region.

Would be useful to overlay cold zone and heat zone maps over this, plus underlay a simple ecoregion map.  The latter to remind people the vast differences in geography for plants and people, such as between z10+ warm water Miami and cool water coastal San Diego. 

My area is just above 5.5, and Albuquerque is just under 5.5. (the bitter end of mostly stubby W. filifera and "not bad...for the desert" Trachycarpus fortunei)

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 11/14/2016 at 7:07 PM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Here are a few filifera that i spotted in Pecos, TX which dropped to -1f in February 2011 with consecutive high temperatures of 12 and 15 degrees.

Those are very fat trunks, they must be very healthy palms.

 

[NBTX11]

Palms do well there for at least 2 reasons.  One, a fact people in northern climates don't understand is, that Texas can heat up FAST any time of the year.  It can be 80 or 85 degrees 2 or 3 days after a hard freeze.  It can be and is 75-85 degrees every month of the year, including December, January, and February.  Secondly, particularly where these palms are, is in a semi desert climate.  It don't rain much in Midland TX.  The average annual rainfall is 14.9 inches.

Edited January 24, 2021 by NBTX11

[Collectorpalms]

On 6/20/2017 at 5:15 PM, pennerchris@gmail.com said:

... And this yard in Odessa: 

Wouldn't be surprised if the homeowner was a palmtalk member, but I've never seen anything posted about Odessa.

Odessa got hit by the extreme cold, got colder than 2011. Anyone able to update these guys this year? Maybe their dry climate helped.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Jimhardy]

3 factors kill a palm after a hard freeze(maybe 4 lol)

once tissue is damaged fungal infections thrive where there is

1.Lack of air flow/movement.

2.Darkness

3.Moisture

Another factor would be how dry the palm is to start with

and its overall health- high carb to water ratio is

almost like the plants antifreeze and to some degree they can move those sugars 

in the plant.

You can see out west nature has a good formula for recovery(so to speak)

Windy sunny day with low humidity values and bright sunshine makes it a

slow day for fungus.

I have seen a Bizzy that was bone dry survive on the porch with a low of

20F,the spear never pulled it just pushed up a dry spot on the spear where

it snapped rather then pulled.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Jimhardy

[jwitt]

As amazing as the 2011 temperatures were in Midland/Odessa. The precipitation (or lack thereof) for the first 7-8 months Is mind blowing. I bet every one of those survivors had supplemental sources to survive.

Edited March 23, 2021 by jwitt

[jwitt]

5 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

3 factors kill a palm after a hard freeze(maybe 4 lol)

once tissue is damaged fungal infections thrive where there is

1.Lack of air flow/movement.

2.Darkness

3.Moisture

Another factor would be how dry the palm is to start with

and its overall health- high carb to water ratio is

almost like the plants antifreeze and to some degree they can move those sugars 

in the plant.

You can see out west nature has a good formula for recovery(so to speak)

Windy sunny day with low humidity values and bright sunshine makes it a

slow day for fungus.

I have seen a Bizzy that was bone dry survive on the porch with a low of

20F,the spear never pulled it just pushed up a dry spot on the spear where

it snapped rather then pulled.

 

Sometimes maybe just the hard freeze.  Is that number 4? 

I know of filifera(and some other species) survivors in back to back nights of -11f followed 9 months later by below zero temperatures again.  They grow in a place able to grow alfalfa unirrigated, meaning these filifera roots reach the less than 5' water table year round.  So I truly question how dry, internally these palms can be in this 160 day growing season.

And all the locales throughout this post are multiple thousands of feet of elevation. The property of our air is quite different.  Take the sixty degree day a week or so ago with the -31f dew point. That March sun was blistering tho.

 

 

[Jimhardy]

And all the locales throughout this post are multiple thousands of feet of elevation. The property of our air is quite different.  Take the sixty degree day a week or so ago with the -31f dew point. That March sun was blistering tho.

 

You can take it..

I noticed when I would go to Az for months I would hold more

water internally, but my skin still cracked-when I returned home my body would shed it.

The palms could be sitting in water and with the negative humidity values you indicated..

they would not be able to transport it fast enough, so the palms would not be water logged like

they are here...I don't know if Filifera can do this but I have some Cacti that survive

here by shedding water before winter...a large palm would not have to do that throughout

the whole palm, thats where carb to water ratio comes into play-lots of carbs(sugars)in those

palms with endless sun.

[Collectorpalms]

Can a meteorologist explain to be how solar insulation is suppose to help with freezes when it’s overcast and snow covered. While the warm up in El Palm happened in 72 hours, there was no sun for 6/7 days in central Texas. The wind blew off the cold snow to the north and the evaporation lead to partially cloudy skies and a high of Only. I only saw very minimum melting that instant refroze as the clouds came back in.

In a sunny radiational event as in the arid west, the desert experience, and even in central Texas, you CAN feel the heat radiate from the trunk of Filifera. This time it was negligible due to duration and clouds.
I think For drought hardiness you need to look back at accumulated precipitation from September until the freeze. The less the precipitation is going to put the plants into a protective mode with high sugar content that freezes at a lower temperature. However, palms in oasises amd that are growing at a low water table like in Albuquerque blows this theory. After the freeze and once the sun and soil warm up. I think flooding the soil it a good thing for more rapid Recovery.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[jwitt]

In a sunny radiational event as in the arid west, the desert experience, and even in central Texas, you CAN feel the heat radiate from the trunk of Filifera. This time it was negligible due to duration and clouds.

 

 

El Paso big freeze in 2011(and here in ABQ) was actually 2 nights of zero(1f/3f). One was wind/ the other was calm.  

It is actually called solar insolation(I called it by insulation in an earlier post) . Clouds can actually enhance it.  

 

It is a mistake and lie to imply El Paso' s zero event was radiational.  Although the second night of zero was, the first was definitely not. And in fact, maybe more abjective(higher consistent winds) than the current Texas freeze.  Always shorter duration in this region compared to yours. 

Our big Arctic(20-50) year events(palm killing) are not radiational, only our normal cold.  Our big Arctic events always "suck" the cold from the east with an easterly wind enhanced by the mountains to our east and a low pressure (storm) to our west.  With our terrain, solar energy, and high elevation, these shallow Arctic events are short lived compared to the plains and east. We do get inversions but the solar energy wipes those out in 2-3 days. 

 

I wish all the Texas palms the best. Hope there are some good surprises and learnings. I never thought any palm would survive here unprotected in 2011 at the time.  I lost some and had some good surprises.

If only I could find some winter shaded local unprotected filifera that survived 2 nights of -11f in 2011...........................

Edited March 24, 2021 by jwitt

[jwitt]

If only I could find some winter shaded local unprotected filifera that survived 2 nights of -11f in 2011.............

 

I will show these palms this coming winter. That way, lack of winter sunshine can be proved.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

A few Washingtonia from the midland area 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[jwitt]

 

Drumroll............

57 pics showing sky. 

55/57 pics show blue sky and or shadow.

96.5% strong sun at nearly 3000' elevation 

Alex, I would like to solve the puzzle for $100.

 

 

 

[Meangreen94z]

3 hours ago, jwitt said:

 

Drumroll............

57 pics showing sky. 

55/57 pics show blue sky and or shadow.

96.5% strong sun at nearly 3000' elevation 

Alex, I would like to solve the puzzle for $100.

 

 

 

Yeah, I hate to say but atleast edit the pictures to show the palm. Really google maps or other blurry sources for pictures are only worth it when you are trying to show something rare or something specific. Blowing up every thread with poor quality pictures of Washingtonia, Phoenix, Sabals  or other common palms is kind of pointless .