Windmill Palms first winter.

[siege2050]

I have six Windmills all going through their first winter in the ground. I uncovered the 4 smaller 1 gallon tonight because its supposed to be 51F tomorrow and did not want them to fry. A couple of nights ago they went through their first 9F degrees and so far I can't see any damage after uncovering so hopefully no spear pull. I did not use lights for heat on the 1 gallon, only a wrapping of Dewitt Ultimate frost cloth rated to stay up to 10F warmer underneath and a layer of bubble wrap with a plastic bag over it all. 

[sashaeffer]

Don't know how tall all of yours are but if you can fit them under large size rose cones for the winter that will help a lot.

I have some small 1 gallon Takil and Bulgaria that are just under pop up greenhouses which offer no insulation with just mini lights inside for warmth and last winter did just fine.

[siege2050]

On 12/11/2016, 6:31:02, sashaeffer said:

Don't know how tall all of yours are but if you can fit them under large size rose cones for the winter that will help a lot.

I have some small 1 gallon Takil and Bulgaria that are just under pop up greenhouses which offer no insulation with just mini lights inside for warmth and last winter did just fine.

 

I will have to look for those at my local Lowes and Home Depot. 

[sashaeffer]

11 hours ago, siege2050 said:

I will have to look for those at my local Lowes and Home Depot. 

I've never found them at stores but bought them on Walmart..com and after paying for them had them shipped to store for FREE. Took less than a week.

[PalmTreeDude]

This is my Windmills first winter too! Here is a photo when I planted it back in spring. 

 

[siege2050]

Here is one of my larger ones today. So far they are all doing well.  I have to wrap them again though because its supposed to get down to 9F Sat. We usually don't get so cold this quick. I have been putting small Christmas lights on the top in a pile at night and they are so small they don't burn, but you can feel a major difference when you put your hand underneath where the spears emerge. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

5 hours ago, siege2050 said:

Here is one of my larger ones today. So far they are all doing well.  I have to wrap them again though because its supposed to get down to 9F Sat. We usually don't get so cold this quick. I have been putting small Christmas lights on the top in a pile at night and they are so small they don't burn, but you can feel a major difference when you put your hand underneath where the spears emerge. 

 

The forecast is dropping like a rock just like ours.  Looks like you will be slightly above zero Sunday morning.

[Ponds & Palms]

6 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

This is my Windmills first winter too! Here is a photo when I planted it back in spring. 

 

Looks nice! I've got a bunch of windmills in my yard in NC and fortunately it really never gets cold enough where I've got to cover them. Only thing to worry about is ice pulling down my fronds. Are you doing anything up in virginia for yours?

[PalmTreeDude]

15 hours ago, Ponds & Palms said:

Looks nice! I've got a bunch of windmills in my yard in NC and fortunately it really never gets cold enough where I've got to cover them. Only thing to worry about is ice pulling down my fronds. Are you doing anything up in virginia for yours?

I am trying not to do anything to them, I want them to get used to cooler temperatures in the winter. Now, if there is a terrible cold snap (down to 10 degrees F) for its first winter I will wrap it. My goal is have it unprotected at all times some day. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by PalmTreeDude

[siege2050]

Thanks for the info everybody, PalmTreeDude, if you are in zone 7 I would protect it when expected to get down to around 18 for the first couple of years. Like you I am trying to keep mine exposed as much as I can but from what I understand the spear can pull even if the foliage looks okay due to freezing water in the crown. Its kinda hard to wrap and unwrap all the time though lol.

[siege2050]

When mine get large I will probably still wrap the trunks with burlap but leave the leaves exposed as a precaution from now on.

[PalmTreeDude]

1 hour ago, siege2050 said:

Thanks for the info everybody, PalmTreeDude, if you are in zone 7 I would protect it when expected to get down to around 18 for the first couple of years. Like you I am trying to keep mine exposed as much as I can but from what I understand the spear can pull even if the foliage looks okay due to freezing water in the crown. Its kinda hard to wrap and unwrap all the time though lol.

I'll do something to it this winter. I see matured Windmills around here in neighborhoods that do not look maintained at all, they have a bunch of dead fronds hanging down and everything, but other than that they have a happy crown. I am hoping mine gets to that point, then I could probably leave it unprotected. People plant Sabal minor and of course Needle Palms around here a lot as well, they are both bulletproof here. 

[NorCalKing]

3 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I am trying not to do anything to them, I want them to get used to cooler temperatures in the winter. Now, if there is a terrible cold snap (down to 10 degrees F) for its first winter I will wrap it. My goal is have it unprotected at all times some day. 

10F will certainly kill it to the ground if not protected at that age.

[Jimhardy]

18 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I am trying not to do anything to them, I want them to get used to cooler temperatures in the winter. Now, if there is a terrible cold snap (down to 10 degrees F) for its first winter I will wrap it. My goal is have it unprotected at all times some day. 

 

I think you can realize this some winters where you are

but they do need to get some trunk size before they

will take on the kind of cold for this to happen.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 12/13/2016, 10:46:18, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The forecast is dropping like a rock just like ours.  Looks like you will be slightly above zero Sunday morning.

Where are you seeing that about Sunday Morning?  We already had our bitter cold the other night when it went down to 9F here.   Sunday its supposed to be 58F.  Sunday night / monday morning it will be 24F and Tuesday morning it will be 22F.  These are all for me up here in far northern VA.    VA is a huge state too.  You can drive 5 hours and still be in it.  We have climates that range from high mountain top alpine climates that are dramatically different, on down to the very subtropical southeast coast where several species of palm usually thrive.   Its not very often that we are subjected to pure arctic air here, as its almost always modified at least somewhat. We are juuuuust far enough south  and east that it usually gets modified enough to make a difference.   We also have the mountains along the western side of the state and we do get downsloping warming affects from that as well.  Its not quite as noticeable in winter but its there.  In summer it can really heat things up.  

[siege2050]

Supposed to be about 8F here in Oklahoma tonight and tomorrow night, you can feel the temps dropping pretty quick. It was about 58 last night lol. I wrapped the palms again. Here we are scalding hot and humid in summer. 100F + is not uncommon, then cold in winter with unpredictable fluctuations. Since the polar vortexes started going nutty it seems like a lot of the US is experiencing weather usually reserved for us.

[NorCalKing]

2 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Where are you seeing that about Sunday Morning?  We already had our bitter cold the other night when it went down to 9F here.   Sunday its supposed to be 58F.  Sunday night / monday morning it will be 24F and Tuesday morning it will be 22F.  These are all for me up here in far northern VA.    VA is a huge state too.  You can drive 5 hours and still be in it.  We have climates that range from high mountain top alpine climates that are dramatically different, on down to the very subtropical southeast coast where several species of palm usually thrive.   Its not very often that we are subjected to pure arctic air here, as its almost always modified at least somewhat. We are juuuuust far enough south  and east that it usually gets modified enough to make a difference.   We also have the mountains along the western side of the state and we do get downsloping warming affects from that as well.  Its not quite as noticeable in winter but its there.  In summer it can really heat things up.  

Wait! Part of Virginia is subtropical?

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

16 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

Wait! Part of Virginia is subtropical?

Va Beach/ extreme southeast. Its temperate subtropical.  Actually, technically, much of Virginia is classified as a Humid Subtropical (Koppen Cfa) Climate. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

7 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Where are you seeing that about Sunday Morning?  We already had our bitter cold the other night when it went down to 9F here.   Sunday its supposed to be 58F.  Sunday night / monday morning it will be 24F and Tuesday morning it will be 22F.  These are all for me up here in far northern VA.    VA is a huge state too.  You can drive 5 hours and still be in it.  We have climates that range from high mountain top alpine climates that are dramatically different, on down to the very subtropical southeast coast where several species of palm usually thrive.   Its not very often that we are subjected to pure arctic air here, as its almost always modified at least somewhat. We are juuuuust far enough south  and east that it usually gets modified enough to make a difference.   We also have the mountains along the western side of the state and we do get downsloping warming affects from that as well.  Its not quite as noticeable in winter but its there.  In summer it can really heat things up.  

This post was directed to seige whom lives in Oklahoma and is why i quoted him in that post. I dont know how my post went to Virginia all of a sudden.

[siege2050]

Palms are all wrapped up again, it's getting very cold. I quickly learned to poke a hole in the bags covering them or they get too much humidity in there and it freezes.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

2 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

This post was directed to seige whom lives in Oklahoma and is why i quoted him in that post. I dont know how my post went to Virginia all of a sudden.

I somehow missed that.  I thought it was to Palmtree dude. LOL.   Tha's why I was like huh?  

[siege2050]

Windmills all survived 3F including the 1 gallon but all with some burn. No spear pull yet, though. All were wrapped but only the 2 larger ones had lights. We don't normally get that cold this soon, and usually only have one time this low each winter so hoping we don't get another too soon that would knock them back more. A person that lives within 50 miles of me or so did not wrap theirs at all and it looks completely fried. I told them if it's not dead (I think it is) to start protecting it the first few years at least. The photo is mine showing some leaf curing burn. I was pleased though they all did fairly well.

[sbpalms]

On 12/23/2016, 11:04:45, siege2050 said:

Windmills all survived 3F including the 1 gallon but all with some burn. No spear pull yet, though. All were wrapped but only the 2 larger ones had lights. We don't normally get that cold this soon, and usually only have one time this low each winter so hoping we don't get another too soon that would knock them back more. A person that lives within 50 miles of me or so did not wrap theirs at all and it looks completely fried. I told them if it's not dead (I think it is) to start protecting it the first few years at least. The photo is mine showing some leaf curing burn. I was pleased though they all did fairly well.

Wow! Great specimen!

[PalmTreeDude]

It has been over a week since my cold snap, spear is in tact, and all of the fronds look exactly the same as before the freeze. 

[Jimhardy]

Can you get a picture of the leaf opposite the one

on the left? Basically the one fanned out next to the spear.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I sold a dozen or so 11-13'CT windmills to some folks in the texas panhandle last year.  Most of them were covered in frost cloth on the night it dropped to -2F.  Half burned and half are still green.  The one completely unprotected windmill saw 0F in their front yard and looks wind blown, but still green. We'll get some definitive data here in 4-5 months.

[Jimhardy]

14 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Can you get a picture of the leaf opposite the one

on the left? Basically the one fanned out next to the spear.

The reason I ask is there may be a slight closing of the leaf opening

next to the spear(hard to tell from the pic,may be from being tied up)

-closing of the fan blades can be a visual clue of

spear damage.

If so....as long as the other blades are not closing then the

damage would only be around the spear,if more were to start closing

it would be more a sign of more significant(trunk) damage.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 12/27/2016, 12:31:18, PalmTreeDude said:

It has been over a week since my cold snap, spear is in tact, and all of the fronds look exactly the same as before the freeze. 

That is great to hear.  You have also had some very warm days  (near 70 or higher) since then too.   Damage can sometimes take a long time to show, but I would imagine that you would see it by now, especially given the warmth that the entire state has had since those arctic cold snaps.  I bet yours will be fine through the winter. 

[Jimhardy]

I bet the one pictured has already pulled...

 

 

 

or your just not pulling hard enough

[siege2050]

Sorry lol, I have not had a chance to take a pic yet. None of them so far have had spear pull, not even the 1 gallon. They did get some damage, though. I check them every day and am actually afraid I am going to kill the spear by pulling on it lol. The one pictured recovered the most. I am not totally sure that it was all cold damage. I might have actually burned them a bit.

[siege2050]

On 12/27/2016, 9:21:56, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I sold a dozen or so 11-13'CT windmills to some folks in the texas panhandle last year.  Most of them were covered in frost cloth on the night it dropped to -2F.  Half burned and half are still green.  The one completely unprotected windmill saw 0F in their front yard and looks wind blown, but still green. We'll get some definitive data here in 4-5 months.

 

One of the one gallon I bought from you had its cover blown off overnight down to 3F and I thought for sure it was a goner. When I found it the next day it was still only about 7F. Still half green, and still no spear pull.

[sashaeffer]

Maybe it's a better idea to resist the temptation to pull on the spear lol and leave the poor thing alone.

 

I had a 1 gallon that I planted in the ground. In the spring first 3/4 years fronds would look great but spear would always pull. Every year it took all season for spear to grow back only to go through the same thing over the winter/spring until this past year in which the palm totally took off and grew so much, so fast that I went from having to use a rose cone for protection to now using 2 barrels stacked for protection...but I will say only a small part of the palm is inside the 2nd barrel but still....it grew that much in one season. I guess it spent most of the time before growing a great root system.

[PalmTreeDude]

On 12/29/2016, 5:17:10, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That is great to hear.  You have also had some very warm days  (near 70 or higher) since then too.   Damage can sometimes take a long time to show, but I would imagine that you would see it by now, especially given the warmth that the entire state has had since those arctic cold snaps.  I bet yours will be fine through the winter. 

Sometimes I will get many palms that are the same species and one of the bunch will always be hardier than the other. I hope that is the case with my windmill. 

[PalmTreeDude]

10 hours ago, sashaeffer said:

Maybe it's a better idea to resist the temptation to pull on the spear lol and leave the poor thing alone.

 

I had a 1 gallon that I planted in the ground. In the spring first 3/4 years fronds would look great but spear would always pull. Every year it took all season for spear to grow back only to go through the same thing over the winter/spring until this past year in which the palm totally took off and grew so much, so fast that I went from having to use a rose cone for protection to now using 2 barrels stacked for protection...but I will say only a small part of the palm is inside the 2nd barrel but still....it grew that much in one season. I guess it spent most of the time before growing a great root system.

If the spear dies on a windmill palm, will it alone turn brown? 

[sashaeffer]

My spear if I remember was still green, but not as green as surround fronds. When I check spears I just give tem a VERY gentle tug.  On my palm it could be too that I had it too protected and it had gotten to humid inside the rose cone. I do a lot better job now with venting any enclosure I use.

This year I have a Trachycarpus Takil 1 gallon that was in the ground since spring. Slow grower and at one point I discovered that a rabbit had eaten what fronds it did have leaving the spear. It only made two new leaves by the time I had to use a mini pop up greenhouse to cover it with and it's on the south side of my house so gets lots of sun. When I checked it couple weeks ago all the fronds had turned brown and spear had pulled. Venting is good on those pop up greenhouses but it still could have been cooked by the sun. Is it dead? not sure, time will tell since it had to start over from the rabbit eating the fronds it could have a good and healthy root system and decide to push a spear come spring, who knows.

My advice for anyone starting to plant palms in the ground in states where you have to protect them over the winter is to buy the largest palm you can afford.

Pic below is the Windmill that went from 1 gallon size to this in one season after have spear pull every year for it's first 3/4 years in the ground. Faces East.

I also thing how fast a palm grows normally has a lot to do with any kind of recovery.

Edited December 31, 2016 by sashaeffer
add pic

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

On 12/30/2016, 4:24:37, PalmTreeDude said:

If the spear dies on a windmill palm, will it alone turn brown? 

Yes, this happens often on field dug plants. I have a few left overs that i didnt sell because the spear browned right after being dug. They have nowgrown out of it and will be sold next spring.

[Jimhardy]

On 12/31/2016, 5:47:52, sashaeffer said:

My advice for anyone starting to plant palms in the ground in states where you have to protect them over the winter is to buy the largest palm you can afford.

I wonder if you will still think that

after they are all taller than you-

it gets to be such a pain to cover them

that I personally like to start smaller,so I

can watch them grow....kinda like adopting older

kids- not my cup of tea but hey...if you dont

want to change diapers!

[sashaeffer]

Happy medium I think. 5 gallon size about perfect I would say.

[PalmTreeDude]

On 12/31/2016, 10:37:45, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Yes, this happens often on field dug plants. I have a few left overs that i didnt sell because the spear browned right after being dug. They have nowgrown out of it and will be sold next spring.

Alright, thank you.

[Jimhardy]

On 1/1/2017, 5:43:51, sashaeffer said:

Happy medium I think. 5 gallon size about perfect I would say.

Yeah....the one in your picture is really a nice size!

 

I really enjoy growing them from seed,I used to think I was

to old to be starting palms from seed(for Sabal yes,to old)

but I have discovered some mistakes I was making and look forward

to seeing the difference next time I try it...