Large Sabal ID - Possible S. maritima?

[Zeeth]

This Sabal is growing at the USF Botanical gardens. I'm thinking that it's a S. maritima based on the petiole color (it appears to have more of a brown scruff on it than S. domingensis). The fruit were oblate and about 13 mm in diameter, and the seeds are concave, and about 9 mm in diameter. Any thoughts?

[Sabal Steve]

I have a Sabal that was labeled as S. maritima a few years ago.  I planted it in clay/rock.  It's done very well on it's own.  

Here's a excerpt regarding identification that I came across:

"The two species are similar, but S. maritima has the young petioles densely covered with light brown scales (which tend to fall off as the leaf ages, so look for this on the youngest leaves in the crown). An even easier distinguishing feature is the density of flowers on the rachillae. In S. martima, the flowers are really crowded on the rachillae. They even touch one another. Not so in S. causiarum, where the flowers are not crowded at all." (Dr. Scott Zona) 

Quite possibly the brown scruff you mention.

[Mandrew968]

Petiole bases on maritima are powdery white. Not so easy to see from you pic, but it looks to be maritima...

[Zeeth]

Looks like I'm going with S. maritima as the ID. 

[Sabal Steve]

2 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

Petiole bases on maritima are powdery white. Not so easy to see from you pic, but it looks to be maritima...

I thought that the whitish petiole bases an identifier as well, but that seems to contradict Dr. Zona's description.  Do you have a source for your description? 

[Mandrew968]

I am not going to come on Palmtalk and tell you Scott is wrong. I am going to show you the distinct white powder of Sabal maritima.

[Zeeth]

Scott refers to S. maritima as having petioles that are usually densely lepidote, and Hodel says that it has "petioles densely covered with light-colored scales and appearing whitish or tan". That sounds to me like the lepidia on the palm you pictured, which is definitely present on the petioles on the palm in my original post.

Hodel also says that S. maritima can be distinguished by the presence of the small, triangle/square shaped ligules present at the base of the petioles. This is present both in the palm you posted and the one in my original post. 

I was wanting to get S. maritima seeds before I went to the garden, so it seems like that worked out pretty well.

[Sabal Steve]

Thanks, Keith. Would it be possible to provide a link? I'd be interested in further reading.  Looks like a monster. I don't know of any S. Maritima growing outhere. I think that Gary Wood had a big one in Fallbrook though.

[Zeeth]

36 minutes ago, The Steve said:

Thanks, Keith. Would it be possible to provide a link? I'd be interested in further reading.  Looks like a monster. I don't know of any S. Maritima growing outhere. I think that Gary Wood had a big one in Fallbrook though.

Here's the 1990 Sabal monograph:

Zona 1990 Sabal monograph reduced.pdf

[Zeeth]

Here's Hodel's 3 part series on Sabal:

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+20-3+(February+2013).pdf

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+21-1+(June+2013).pdf

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+21-2+(August+2013).pdf

[Sabal Steve]

3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Here's Hodel's 3 part series on Sabal:

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+20-3+(February+2013).pdf

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+21-1+(June+2013).pdf

Southeastern+Palms+Vol+21-2+(August+2013).pdf

Awesome, I've actually been looking for part 3 of this series (I have the other 2 somewhere...)

What would you say were the dimensions of the one you pictured?

Also, here's a picture of that Sabal in Fallbrook that I mentioned.

Photo courtesy of Dr. Axel Kratel.

[Zeeth]

It was pretty big. I would say that it's as large as a Sabal domingensis. I originally thought it was S. domingensis until I noted the large amount of lepidia on the petioles, which is why I posted the thread, because I've read elsewhere that S. maritima tends to be the smallest out of the "big 3" Sabals, so I wasn't too sure.

I would say that it's thinner than Sabal causiarum though, which seems to have a little larger trunk with a smaller crown from what I've seen.