freeze results after 2-3 weeks

[tstex]

Hello to All,

After the major cold front that has killed a lot and set-back many diff species of plants from mid Jan 2017 in Texas, I have 6 pics of our most critically injured palms: Sylvester date palm (P1) and 2 queen palms; P2 & P3

I believe P1 only had lower branches killed and tip to mid-burned on the others...the crown has 2-3 fronds that are all green at the base, but dead at the tips.  Should I cut off or trim anything?  Other comments?

The next 3 pics is of a 4-5 yr old queen palm..it has a small green growth at very bottom of crown, plus a seed pod emerging.  The truck where it used to be all green has some discoloration higher up, but the base is still green, but no bark is rotting off mainly bc there is none..I want to trim the 2-3 lower branches bc they appear to be 100% dead, and are rubbing our screens and damaging them on 2nd story...Is this okay to do?

The last set of pics is a more mature queen that was planted fprob 11-12 yrs ago...it has some bark missing in places, has been thru the 2011 freeze and maybe 1 more.  it had 2 major fronds that are still kind of green, 1-2 seed pods emerging, but has dropped 2 major fronds that needed to be cut off.

Just looking for general guidance on these 3 palms, but any specifics are more than welcome.  I am going to invest in some of the Sabal palms you recommended and plant them in the back when we redo the landscaping.

Thank you very much in advance and I hope all your palms are doing well,

tstex

[tstex]

correction...the pics I load. only 4 of the 6 uploaded and their order changed...P1 is correct, but pic's 2&3 are palm 3 and the 4th pic is P2 - sorry

[topwater]

Geez, how cold did it get?

[Xenon]

Wow, Katy doesn't even look that bad...you must live in the north/northwest suburbs? 

[tstex]

Live near Eldridge and B-Forest, 2-3 miles S of I-10...it was 18-19 here w a 15-20 MPH winds all night long...my 2 yr old lime tree died, and 2 yr olds lemon and orange are sprouting back from the trunks and just the branches right off the trunk...our house faces the East and South, so all of our palms are subject to direct N & S winds, and none of the palms are planted on the S side for protection...as in real-estate, it's all about location, location, location.

I was not in Hou at the time, but our ranch house NE of Columbus...got to 14 there and the well line froze...if I was in Hou, I would have protected some things, but the weather service predicted only 28-29 degrees - they completely blew it...

[topwater]

I've heard it's best to leave the dead fronds in place because they may help insulate the meristem against further cold damage.  I'd cut them off in March.  

[tstex]

Thanks for your reply 

[wrigjef]

The Queens look bad and may take years to recover if at all.  18-19 is extremely low for any Palm. I am surprised to hear Houston got that cold. I live in Phoenix and have two mature Queens and just a few nights in the upper 30's the frond turn yellow quickly.  We had a mild winter only two frosts at my house not a freeze. We got to 35 and 36 on two mornings. Other than a one week cold period in January most nights were mild by AZ standards. I think you are just going to need to wait and hope they pull through.  

[tstex]

The temp's were way lower then they even remotely predicted, but I believe the real harm was from the intense wind for that whole night...it then got down to the mid to mid-high 20's the next night w no wind, and that is all the freezing temps we've had the entire year...I sure hope the queens can adjust - if not, then it's Sabal time from this point forward//

thanks for your feedback

PS - My brother lives in Chandler and I have been there about 3-4 times...really a very heavy citrus place along w palms - AZ has all kinds of places to go...

[PalmTreeDude]

Queens may not make it, but don't give up hope! Let it be for a few months, see if any growth appears. The other should be good.

[tstex]

I cut back the oleanders and hibiscus today, and decided to take our tallest latter and get up to the crown on the 4-5 yr old queen...there is a new green shout coming out or getting ready to come out...it's so tucked in there that you cannot see it from the ground.   Hopefully this will be one of many more...

The older 11-12 yr old is showing nothing new but does have two of the orig larger fronds that still have green in them...I am sure it could take a yr or so before the full extent of what the freeze did.  I know from our live oaks at the ranch that the impact of a drought may not fully manifest until 18-24 months.. hopefully they'll pull through...palm are really cool plants..thanks, tstex

[Tom in Tucson]

If I were going to replace or add any palms in your climate, I would seriously consider some coccoid hybrids such as:

Butia X Syagrus (traditional mule)

Butia X Parajubaea (cocoides or sunkha)

Jubaea X Syagrus - one of the best hybrids

The first one has been tested in the south for years with surprising success. The others are proving to be as good or better. Although there's nothing wrong with planting more Sabals (if you've got lots of time or money for larger ones).

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 79°, Lo 46°

[wimmie]

14 hours ago, wrigjef said:

The Queens look bad and may take years to recover if at all.  18-19 is extremely low for any Palm. I am surprised to hear Houston got that cold. I live in Phoenix and have two mature Queens and just a few nights in the upper 30's the frond turn yellow quickly.  We had a mild winter only two frosts at my house not a freeze. We got to 35 and 36 on two mornings. Other than a one week cold period in January most nights were mild by AZ standards. I think you are just going to need to wait and hope they pull through.  

Hello, Jeff; May 20 and 21 I will be in Phoenix on holiday. Anything palmy there I should see?

 

Wim.

[tstex]

9 hours ago, Tom in Tucson said:

If I were going to replace or add any palms in your climate, I would seriously consider some coccoid hybrids such as:

Butia X Syagrus (traditional mule)

Butia X Parajubaea (cocoides or sunkha)

Jubaea X Syagrus - one of the best hybrids

The first one has been tested in the south for years with surprising success. The others are proving to be as good or better. Although there's nothing wrong with planting more Sabals (if you've got lots of time or money for larger ones).

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 79°, Lo 46°

Thanks for the suggestions Tom - I will look into these palms for their availability and pricing.

We have about 900 homes here, and I am looking for the palms that have done well thru both freezes..these are the ones I am going to prob procure...Thx again

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

18-19f with a soft wind in dfw completely torches dactylifera and CIDP. We cant grow Sylvesters as they arent hardy for our area. 

[wrigjef]

4 hours ago, wimmie said:

Hello, Jeff; May 20 and 21 I will be in Phoenix on holiday. Anything palmy there I should see?

 

Wim.

The Queens look bad and may take years to recover if at all.  18-19 is extremely low for any Palm. I am surprised to hear Houston got that cold. I live in Phoenix and have two mature Queens and just a few nights in the upper 30's the frond turn yellow quickly.  We had a mild winter only two frosts at my house not a freeze. We got to 35 and 36 on two mornings. Other than a one week cold period in January most nights were mild by AZ standards. I think you are just going to need to wait and hope they pull through.  

[wrigjef]

Hey Wimmie, 

If you live in the Netherlands just about every palm you see will be exciting for you. We don't have very many exotics here just your standard Washy's, Queens, Phoenix Roebelenii, Edible Date Palms and Canary Island Dates. There are a few mature Bismarcks around town. 101st street and Shea has two large ones in a yard and there is a massive Roystonia down by the state Capitol in Phoenix.  There are a few Texas Sables around town as well as some Mules but you have to look for them. Cheers 

[Xerarch]

7 hours ago, wimmie said:

Hello, Jeff; May 20 and 21 I will be in Phoenix on holiday. Anything palmy there I should see?

 

Wim.

It isn't really palmy but I would highly recommend the Desert Botanical Garden in Phoenix, great assortment of desert material which would be very exotic for someone coming from Europe, also consider the Boyce-Thompson Arboretum outside of town, it is larger in size and less formal than the botanical garden, but well worth it. 

[wimmie]

Thanks, guys!

Wim.

[Jim in Los Altos]

On February 8, 2017 at 6:09:30 PM, tstex said:

I cut back the oleanders and hibiscus today, and decided to take our tallest latter and get up to the crown on the 4-5 yr old queen...there is a new green shout coming out or getting ready to come out...it's so tucked in there that you cannot see it from the ground.   Hopefully this will be one of many more...

The older 11-12 yr old is showing nothing new but does have two of the orig larger fronds that still have green in them...I am sure it could take a yr or so before the full extent of what the freeze did.  I know from our live oaks at the ranch that the impact of a drought may not fully manifest until 18-24 months.. hopefully they'll pull through...palm are really cool plants..thanks, tstex

Tom, That queen plan is much older than 4-5 years old. From seed, a 4 or five year old queen likely wouldn't be showing any clear trunk yet and would likely be dead after your freeze. That's good of course since that queen palm and the one you mention is 11-12 years old are much older than that and I think have a reasonably good chance at survival if you see any green at all. I see green in a couple of the fronds of the older one which is amazing given the low temperature they endured. Springtime heat should get the ball rolling and the completely dead fronds can be cut off perhaps next month. 

I'd the Phoenix leaves alone except for any that are nearly or completely brown. Again, spring and summer heat should make them push new leaves provided they don't get drought stressed.

 

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Tom, That queen plan is much older than 4-5 years old. From seed, a 4 or five year old queen likely wouldn't be showing any clear trunk yet and would likely be dead after your freeze. That's good of course since that queen palm and the one you mention is 11-12 years old are much older than that and I think have a reasonably good chance at survival if you see any green at all. I see green in a couple of the fronds of the older one which is amazing given the low temperature they endured. Springtime heat should get the ball rolling and the completely dead fronds can be cut off perhaps next month. 

I'd the Phoenix leaves alone except for any that are nearly or completely brown. Again, spring and summer heat should make them push new leaves provided they don't get drought stressed.

 

I concur Jim - the growth rings nearer the crown look pretty tight, as well, though tough to tell definitively with the resolution.

[tstex]

Jim & Ben,

Thanks for the replies.

A clarification on the 4-5 yr old queen.  That was planted at the end 2011 when the lot next to us was built out & completed.  But, that palm was probably 8-9 feet tall when planted, so we've had it for that time but it's age is definitely older-my bad.

Both my wife and I have commented how fast & tall that Palm has grown.  It's base/trunk is by a sprinkler head, but a fence blocks the soil from all day direct sun, yet the crown gets plenty of sun.  I have fertilized it regularity too.  I'm really partial to it so I hope she makes it.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate your insight.  I'll keep you/the forum posted on their (hopeful) progression.

Regards,

Tom

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by tstex

[topwater]

One issue with hybrids is that it's really hard to find one with any size to it in the Houston area although seedlings are readily available online and they are supposedly really fast growers  

 

 

[tstex]

Top, what hybrids are you referring to?

Also, seems like there would be a Mkt in Hou for palms that were grown from seed but sold when they were 6-8ft tall

thanks

[topwater]

Anything with an "X" in the middle, e.g. Butia X Syagrus. I think Houston would be a great market for hybrids too. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I sell as many (silver) Bismarckia, Butia x Syagrus, Chamaedorea radicalis as I can grow every year into the Houston market.  This marks the third year in a row that I have increased these species to meet the demand. The bamboo folks on the south side of town have customers that love the arborescent C. Radicalis.

[tstex]

Top & TxCHP,

thanks a million guys for the leads...I will Ck into your referrals

do the Busmarks have a bit of a blue/green to them w real wide fronds & shorter stalks?  They are quite interesting.

again, thank you very much,

tom

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

The ones i have are purple/maroon when small and full sun. They tend to be more cold hardy than the green ones.

[tstex]

Wow, purple Maroon!!  Is this an A&M type palm?  

Do you have a pic pls?

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

11 hours ago, tstex said:

Wow, purple Maroon!!  Is this an A&M type palm?  

Do you have a pic pls?

 

 

[tstex]

Thanks TCHP - that's a baby...are any of these for sale in a larger size, that too are affordable....I'll be in Denton in late March for my daughters drill team competition, so maybe I could sneak a small one inside the back of the SUV as a stowaway...maybe a 3-4 ft one...are any for sale in your area?

Thanks again, tom

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I think i have some 3g laying around

[topwater]

21 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I sell as many (silver) Bismarckia, Butia x Syagrus, Chamaedorea radicalis as I can grow every year into the Houston market.  This marks the third year in a row that I have increased these species to meet the demand. The bamboo folks on the south side of town have customers that love the arborescent C. Radicalis.

Are you selling to nurseries in Houston? I'd love a few trunking radicalis! 

Edited February 12, 2017 by topwater

[necturus]

Yeah, PM me the nurseries you're supplying, I'd like to get my hands on those.