Freeze Damaged Queen Palm Help

[ErikU19Tex]

Hello Everyone,

I'm looking for some help on my freeze damaged queen palms.  The temps got pretty low in Houston this past winter (17*), and even after wrapping my smaller palms I'm still experiencing problems. All fronds on all 6 of my trees turned brown within a week. I have some green growth on the larger 4 trees, the smaller 2 aren't doing as well.

A couple questions:

1)Should I leave the existing fronds that are brown, but still supporting themselves, on the trees or cut them off? I'm not sure if the tree is actually getting nutrition from them (I've read they do), so I don't want it to be a source of fungus or bacteria.

2)The 2 smaller palms each had a spear pull out today. The smell was not pleasant, but I treated the cavities with hydrogen peroxide.  I've been spraying all the trees with a copper fungicide for the past 3 weeks, so I'm a little surprised they pulled so late (they were nice and firm when I began the preventative treatment) but I guess that's how it goes. Keeping my fingers crossed

I may get an extension ladder and check out the 2 taller palms, but they have some green and seem to be ok - its been clear and dry for the past few days and I'm hoping it continues so they can dry out.

 

any suggestions or help is appreciated. thanks!

[PalmTreeDude]

Hello, I would leave the brown fronds on, for now. Sorry to hear the spears pulled for the smaller ones, they are likely dead, but keep them for awhile, just in case anything happens. Do you have any pictures? Those would really help. 

[ErikU19Tex]

I can take some. What area(s) do you want to see? Closeups ?

[Walt]

You've probably done all you can to save your queen palms (drenching growth bud with hydrogen peroxide/copper fungicide). If the fronds are totally dead, then cut them off. If any green at all there may be some amount of photosynthesis. Wrapping a palm without providing supplemental heat (like string lights or heating cables) does virtually nothing to keep the palm from assuming ambient temperature of the air around it, as the palm does not generate any heat to where the wraps would contain it -- like a human would covered with the same amount of wraps.

Wraps can help at higher temperatures (say from 32 degrees to upper 30s air temperature) when frost can form. Wraps can mitigate frost formation on leaves that can get down to 32 degrees (and dew can freeze on the leaves) even though the air above it might be in the upper 30s. But wraps are virtually useless at 17 degrees -- unless you have string lights or heating cables wrapped around the fronds so the wraps (insulation) can slow down the release of heat from the palm.

I kept my trunked coconut palm from being killed when the temperature dropped to 20.8 degrees back in December of 2010, using heating cables and insulative wraps around the trunk and growth bud. The fronds were almost totally killed, but the trunk and growth bud where not damaged. Thus, the palm regrew new fronds and returned to normal. It took almost two years for the coconut to regrow a full crown of fronds.

When it comes to cold protection of palms and other tropical, there's not much (different techniques) I haven't done. 

[ErikU19Tex]

Thanks for the reply.

 

My concern with the dead fronds is that they have the lesions/black on them, so I assumed cutting them off would be best. They don't have any green, unless it's is very close to where it meets the trunk. I can cut it off up to this point, does that make the most sense? These aren't yellow, they are brown...dead brown lol. 

 

Thanks, I'm bumming as these were just beautiful trees and I recalled enjoyed them. I bought some wilt pruf to protect them in the event of the next frost, and will add some heat source when wrapping them like you said. 

 

Thanks for all the help, and send me some positive palm energy;) 

[PalmatierMeg]

Queens probably aren't long term palms for you. I suggest you replace the dead queens with mule palms, a cross of a Butia sp and Syagrus sp. Usually it's Butia odorata and Syagrus romanzoffiana (queen). Mules are coldhardier than queens and have a resemblance to a coconut. Many people, myself included, think they are more beautiful than the common queen. Mules cost a bit more than queens at the outset but planting queens as annuals can be a costly venture.

[ErikU19Tex]

I'll have to check them out :) thanks. Yes, Queens as an annual is not something I'm interested in. 

[Xenon]

Welcome to the forum! What part of Houston are you in? 17F is really cold...queens look much better closer to town/to the south. Even in Katy, queens look much worse west of about SH 99 than where I am closer to the Energy Corridor. There are large queen palms even in the colder parts of town so I'd disagree about them being unreliable...slightly tender in the colder suburbs but they seem to grow out of the damage pretty quickly. Hope your palms survive!

Edited March 22, 2017 by Xenon

[ErikU19Tex]

Hey there. Im in Tomball, 249 and 99. It was only projected to get down to 25, and I wake up and it's 17...brutal.

Thanks, really hoping they all make it. They are higher maintenance than I thought, like my wife and daughters, so they feel just right here with me ;) 

[Laaz]

You can cut the burned ones off at the growth point & see if there is any green in the center at that point. If there is, pour some peroxide in there. I have done this with queens in the past & they came right back.

[ErikU19Tex]

I assume you mean the small ones that had the spear pull? 

 

Thanks everyone 

[Laaz]

Yes.

[Walt]

22 hours ago, ErikU19Tex said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

My concern with the dead fronds is that they have the lesions/black on them, so I assumed cutting them off would be best. They don't have any green, unless it's is very close to where it meets the trunk. I can cut it off up to this point, does that make the most sense? These aren't yellow, they are brown...dead brown lol. 

 

Thanks, I'm bumming as these were just beautiful trees and I recalled enjoyed them. I bought some wilt pruf to protect them in the event of the next frost, and will add some heat source when wrapping them like you said. 

 

Thanks for all the help, and send me some positive palm energy;) 

I would cut off all the mostly dead fronds. They offer nothing helpful to the palm at this point. The only reason you would leave dead (killed by cold) fronds on a palm is when you expect more cold weather. The dead fronds offer a little protection to the palm by reflecting rising ground heat back down when the rising heat reaches the bottom of the dead fronds. But you shouldn't see that kind of cold weather now. Further, 17 degrees for Houston, I wouldn't think, is normal for an average winter. I thought Houston was at least high USDA zone 9a, and maybe 9b closer to the Gulf..

I wouldn't waste my money on Wilt Proof. That will do nothing to protect the palm's growth bud. All it can help is foliage, and at that, I'm not impressed from what I've seen. And 17 degrees? No way wilt proof is going to keep foliage from burning on a queen palm, especially a young one. At least that is my opinion.

I use heating cables too wrap around a palm's trunk and just up past the growth bud, then wrap (multiple layers) flannel sheets or some other suitable wrap to hold the heat in. It doesn't take too much heat. The insulation is more important. But you must have some heat for the insulation to hold in to keep the palm's trunk and growth bud from freezing. See here for heating cables:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_6_14?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=heating+cables+for+pipes&sprefix=heating+cables%2Caps%2C227&crid=3GGMRA6UJNYU6

 

[Xenon]

35 minutes ago, Walt said:

Further, 17 degrees for Houston, I wouldn't think, is normal for an average winter. I thought Houston was at least high USDA zone 9a, and maybe 9b closer to the Gulf..

He lives in a far northwestern suburb of Houston (~80 miles from the Gulf)...about as cold as it gets.

[ErikU19Tex]

How far back should I cut these trees? Currently cut to the green part of the fronds - should I cut back further and expose the bud? I don't want to cause more harm than good - these 2 had the spear pull on Monday.

I looked into the cavity and there is some green, as well as some yellow and black. I'll probably hit it again with peroxide tomorrow.

 

My mirror leafs were devasted as well, defoiled completely.  They have come back strong with a sunshine and fertilizer.

 

on a better note, one of the medium sized ones I had pulled a spear a few weeks ago, and it is growing well now - so perhaps not all hope is lost. but these younger trees seem to be taking it a lot harder.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by ErikU19Tex

[ErikU19Tex]

Good to know on the wilt pruf, I will plan accordingly to protect the bud.

 

Yeah, 17 was brutal. it was only projected to get to 25, but here we are. live and learn.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ErikU19Tex

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Welcome to Palmtalk!  THe best palm forums on the net!

 

I have to agree with Walt here, you need to add a heat source when its gonna get below 32F for them, then some wrapping protection on top of that.  MAKE SURE that the heat is only applied when temps are below 32, and gets turned off before it gets back above that.  That is key.  

 

Also, to see a good example of trunk cutting a cold damaged palm (spear pull) I think the one in post 6 or 7 of this thread is a very good job.  Good luck and keep us posted! 

 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/52873-trachycarpus-put-to-the-test-at-2f/

[Ben in Norcal]

Queens don't need any protection until you start getting into the low-20s.  But if you get under that, you'll need a plan.  These are so quick growing that protecting becomes tough.  I like the mule idea for you.

[topwater]

The problem with mules in Houston is that nobody sells them. You'll probably have to buy a seedling on the web. On the other hand, there are places that sell Sabal palmettos for $50 a foot of clear trunk. You can get a six footer for $300, which is a big tree, you'll probably have to pay to get it planted. Palmettos love it here, they are naturalizing in TC big time and I think they are hardy to 8a.  If I were you I'd get both.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by topwater

[ErikU19Tex]

The Mule Palm looks similar to the queen, as it's a hybrid. Interesting. I'll keep it at the top of my list.

 

I'm going t-cut the smaller palms tomorrow and post pics. 

I got on an extension ladder out and checked the two largest palms. They appear ok. I marked the Spears to monitor growth.

 

I cut all the brown fronds off, it looks like a nuclear fallout back here...

 

Thanks everyone, I appreciate you all.

Edited March 24, 2017 by ErikU19Tex

[meteorologistpalmguy]

8 hours ago, topwater said:

The problem with mules in Houston is that nobody sells them. You'll probably have to buy a seedling on the web. On the other hand, there are places that sell Sabal palmettos for $50 a foot of clear trunk. You can get a six footer for $300, which is a big tree, you'll probably have to pay to get it planted. Palmettos love it here, they are naturalizing in TC big time and I think they are hardy to 8a.  If I were you I'd get both.  

There are a few places you can pick up Mules around Houston.   Beyond Paradise (I am only familiar with the one in Cypress) has sizes ranging from 15 gallon to what has to be 45 or 60 gallon (they are enormous).  You can get smaller ones at RCW but they seem very over priced.   For something in between on price/size Caldwell Nursery in Rosenberg has several.   I picked up a 20ish gallon mule from Palm Trees Of Houston in Conroe for $60, but it was the last one they had there at the time (this was right after the big January freeze). 

[ErikU19Tex]

ok, so I got to cutting on one of my smaller plams - I don't think it is gonna make it.  It still has the same smell from the spear pull, and I had to cut deep into the trunk to get away from rot.

 

here is a pic. should I just pull it out and start over with this one? I don't see any green, anywhere

Edited March 24, 2017 by ErikU19Tex

[Walt]

When it comes to queen palms, the bigger the better in terms of taking cold. A mature queen palm, from my experience, incurs little cold damage from short duration lows down to about 25 degrees. That is, the nighttime low bottoms out at 25 degrees right at sun up. At worst, what you will see is some new fronds that will open up partially damaged, i.e., the leaves will be short and ragged about mid way on the rachis from bacterial bud rot. The bigger and taller the queen palm, damage will be even less or non existent. This is the case for my area as I've never had a 25 degree or less freeze that wasn't radiational in nature (no wind, where the air stratifies and gets warmer with altitude). As such, it may be 25 degrees at 5 feet above ground level, but the temperature rises slightly with every foot above that level, so that a queen palm's fronds 10-15-20 feet above the ground may only be experiencing low temperatures in the high 20s (or more).

On the other hand, juvenile queen palms are more susceptible to lower temperatures, and could be far more cold damaged at 25 degrees. I've lost very small queen palms (maybe 4 feet tall overall) from cold while my mature queen palms weren't hurt at all. When there is little or no wind, invariably the coldest air will be closest to the ground, getting warmer the higher above the ground.

As far as using heating cables and some string lights, they should be used sparingly, otherwise they can overheat the palm. I've had this happen to some of my more cold tender palms by leaving the cables to run for long periods of time. With respect to a queen palm, I wouldn't even activate the heating cables until the temperature dropped down close to 25 degrees. This assumes spirally wrapping the cables on 6-8 inch centers (like a candy cane around the trunk), then making multiple wraps with a flannel sheet or some other insulative material to help contain the heat released from the cable.  Once ambient air temperatures rise above 25 degrees, turn the cables off.

I only use heating cables when I know overnight temperatures will drop low enough to kill the palm's meristem and/or trunk. The last time I had to do this was in December of 2010 when I had about nine nights below 30 degrees, with my lowest night at 20.8 degrees. I used a heating cable on my trunked coconut palm each of those below 30 degree nights. Had I not used the cables my coconut palm would have surly been killed.

 

[Walt]

Heating cable on my coconut palm back in January of 2010. I then wrapped over the cable and trunk with a mover's quilt or padded mattress cover (both good insulation material).

 

[topwater]

14 hours ago, meteorologistpalmguy said:

There are a few places you can pick up Mules around Houston.   Beyond Paradise (I am only familiar with the one in Cypress) has sizes ranging from 15 gallon to what has to be 45 or 60 gallon (they are enormous).  You can get smaller ones at RCW but they seem very over priced.   For something in between on price/size Caldwell Nursery in Rosenberg has several.   I picked up a 20ish gallon mule from Palm Trees Of Houston in Conroe for $60, but it was the last one they had there at the time (this was right after the big January freeze). 

Thanks for the information.  I'm surprised mules aren't more readily available in the Houston area, they sound like a perfect fit.  Off topic but I really hope Bismarckia will take off on the warm half of town. It's one of my top five favorites, grows well in Galveston/ TC, I suspect the cold hardiness is similar to queens, which are pretty much bullit proof here.  

[topwater]

I'm lined up for a couple of J X B X S next month, from what I've seen it's a beautiful tree, I hope it's as fast as the mules. 

[Ben in Norcal]

4 minutes ago, topwater said:

I'm lined up for a couple of J X B X S next month, from what I've seen it's a beautiful tree, I hope it's as fast as the mules. 

Unfortunately they are not - at least not here

[ErikU19Tex]

How long should I wait for these palms that were t-cut to "sprout" or show signs of life?

I don't see much activity besides it drying out - it has been hot and sunny here the last 5 days, so if that's what it needed it got it.

 

 I don't want to let it rot and get a disease that could spread to the other trees.

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by ErikU19Tex

[PalmatierMeg]

I've never sliced through a queen trunk but have for Coccothrinax & Sabal palmetto (both slow growing). If they were alive the growing point started moving within 24 hours and showed significant growth in a few days. If your queens' growing points haven't moved in 5 days, that's not a good sign.

[ErikU19Tex]

no signs of life, only some fungus or mold growing.

 

eviction notice signed, they are coming out!