Alcantara imperialis

[Jdiaz31089]

I recently purchased two alcantarea imperialis to grow in large pots outdoors. I was wondering what soil mixes others have used with semi-terrestrial bromeliads like alcantareas. From what I've read they grow on rocky granite outcroppings so obviously they prefer a substrate with really good drainage. I've also ready that "each plant establishes its’ own micro habitat, with the gradual build up of humus, mosses and lichens around the root system providing a store of water and nutrients in addition to the reserves held in the copious leaf bases and vases." Anyone else growing these in pots? What type of soil mix do you use?

[Gonzer]

50% small orchid bark, 25% small pumice, 25% potting soil. Best bet is to pot 'em up and leave 'em be. Too much TLC kills them. Let the mix get on the drier side of damp before watering. Fresno? Mmmm, I'd keep 'em out of full sun where you're at.

[XYZ]

I agree with Gonz with regard to not disturbing them too much and keeping them out of full sun all day outside of benign subtropical or tropical environments. I grow a few up here, including quite a large one (>54") on my E-NE facing deck. In the 'States, I use a blend of 3:2:1 coco fiber "croutons", LECA and shredded treefern, so quite comparable to the mix he recommends. I have also grown them to full size in 1:1 medium bark and hort charcoal, as well as 1:1 composted oak leaf litter and hort grade pumice, so clearly they are quite adaptable as long as the mix has sharp drainage. In the greenhouse, my plants are all in plastic azalea pots up to about 6", and from then on into wider than deep Italian clay pots (I like the basal anchor stability that they provide) that do have the disadvantage of having to be sacrificed with a hammer once the plants are fully root bound.

A trick that I have learned with alcantareas is that they definitely benefit from keeping their entire leaf wells full of good quality water all the time. They should be watered all the way through with enough frequency to keep the basal leaf axils full. This will help them keep a full canopy of leaves all the way to the ground, rather than end up with an unsightly short stem as they mature. Good, strong, light coupled with cool temps from early morning through about midday will keep the red forms in good color.

J

[Jdiaz31089]

42 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

I agree with Gonz with regard to not disturbing them too much and keeping them out of full sun all day outside of benign subtropical or tropical environments. I grow a few up here, including quite a large one (>54") on my E-NE facing deck. In the 'States, I use a blend of 3:2:1 coco fiber "croutons", LECA and shredded treefern, so quite comparable to the mix he recommends. I have also grown them to full size in 1:1 medium bark and hort charcoal, as well as 1:1 composted oak leaf litter and hort grade pumice, so clearly they are quite adaptable as long as the mix has sharp drainage. In the greenhouse, my plants are all in plastic azalea pots up to about 6", and from then on into wider than deep Italian clay pots (I like the basal anchor stability that they provide) that do have the disadvantage of having to be sacrificed with a hammer once the plants are fully root bound.

A trick that I have learned with alcantareas is that they definitely benefit from keeping their entire leaf wells full of good quality water all the time. They should be watered all the way through with enough frequency to keep the basal leaf axils full. This will help them keep a full canopy of leaves all the way to the ground, rather than end up with an unsightly short stem as they mature. Good, strong, light coupled with cool temps from early morning through about midday will keep the red forms in good color.

J

That's good to know. I have many years' worth of oak leaf litter that I can rake up and use. And as far as filling the leaf wells regularly, I'll make sure to do that. They'll be near where my dogs' water bucket is, and that gets filled almost daily so i'll start to form a habit of filling the leaf wells with these. 

And as far as temperatures go, I guess we'll see how well they take our 80-degree nights in mid-summer! The variety I have are called "Julieta"

22 hours ago, Gonzer said:

50% small orchid bark, 25% small pumice, 25% potting soil. Best bet is to pot 'em up and leave 'em be. Too much TLC kills them. Let the mix get on the drier side of damp before watering. Fresno? Mmmm, I'd keep 'em out of full sun where you're at.

Awesome! I like the sound of that! I'll be putting them in these large, cement pots in the shadiest part of the yard - beneath a large crepe myrtle and my neighbor's intrusive mulberry tree. This is where I keep my potted hoyas and aeschynanthus and they seem to like it. Thanks for the advise guys!

Oh! and the philodendron selloum will be repotted somewhere else or put in the ground, so the alcantarea will have these pots to themselves. 

[Tracy]

On 3/27/2017, 2:20:40, Gonzer said:

50% small orchid bark, 25% small pumice, 25% potting soil. Best bet is to pot 'em up and leave 'em be. Too much TLC kills them. Let the mix get on the drier side of damp before watering. Fresno? Mmmm, I'd keep 'em out of full sun where you're at.

While I like the mix recommendation for potting, I thought it worthwhile sharing that they seem pretty flexible on soil type when in the ground.  The one pictured has been in my Carlsbad clay soil for several years now (before I planted the Chambeyronia in the photo next to it).  It has done well despite some abuse, including switching over to drip irrigation last summer.  I will guarantee that my tenants don't keep the leaf wells filled, and I didn't think to have any sort of spray system set up for it when I did the conversion to drip.  Better to follow others advice, but it does seem there is room for some error based on my limited experience.  I did pull a little offset from the base which has been growing in my Leucadia home for 2 years. Its grown much faster here with the sandy well draining soil. 

[Gonzer]

I agree with Tracy in that the composition of the terra-firma soil is less important, as long as the clay content is very low. Sandy soil, for in-ground planting (for many bromeliads), is a pretty safe bet.

[DiegoGM]

My alcantareas are in soil directly. I live in an rainy and temperate region and they are happy. I have clay soil with much organic materia and they grow fast 

[Jdiaz31089]

9 hours ago, Gonzer said:

I agree with Tracy in that the composition of the terra-firma soil is less important, as long as the clay content is very low. Sandy soil, for in-ground planting (for many bromeliads), is a pretty safe bet.

 

15 hours ago, Tracy said:

While I like the mix recommendation for potting, I thought it worthwhile sharing that they seem pretty flexible on soil type when in the ground.  The one pictured has been in my Carlsbad clay soil for several years now (before I planted the Chambeyronia in the photo next to it).  It has done well despite some abuse, including switching over to drip irrigation last summer.  I will guarantee that my tenants don't keep the leaf wells filled, and I didn't think to have any sort of spray system set up for it when I did the conversion to drip.  Better to follow others advice, but it does seem there is room for some error based on my limited experience.  I did pull a little offset from the base which has been growing in my Leucadia home for 2 years. Is grown much faster here with the sandy well draining soil. 

Thanks for the input!. I went ahead and mixed a bit of leftover potting soil I had with some of our native soil from underneath a live oak and I included the decomposed (and decomposing) layer of oak litter from under the oak as well. Our soil is very sandy here so I think the mix will do well for the alcantarea. I mixed it all in pretty well and watered it down so that it became a little more compact than what I show in the picture here. 

 

[Jdiaz31089]

I just read that this is actually NOT an alcantarea, but rather xVriecantarea 'Julieta'. A bi-generic cross between Vriesea & Alcantarea imperialis. 

[Pando]

1 hour ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

I just read that this is actually NOT an alcantarea, but rather xVriecantarea 'Julieta'. A bi-generic cross between Vriesea & Alcantarea imperialis. 

Alcantarea imperialis used to be called Vriesea imperialis, so I don't think these two are considered different genera. Just like Lytocaryum that is now Syagrus, it's the same thing, it was just moved to a different genus.

Looks almost identical to Vriesea (Alcantarea) imperialis I got from a local nursery. I'm curious what makes the "Julieta" different? Mine turns pretty nice dark red in a sunny spot, and it's not even the "Rubra" variety.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Pando

[Jdiaz31089]

32 minutes ago, Pando said:

Alcantarea imperialis used to be called Vriesea imperialis, so I don't think these two are considered different genera. Just like Lytocaryum that is now Syagrus, it's the same thing, it was just moved to a different genus.

Looks almost identical to Vriesea (Alcantarea) imperialis I got from a local nursery. I'm curious what makes the "Julieta" different? Mine turns pretty nice dark red in a sunny spot, and it's not even the "Rubra" variety.

Ah got it! Thanks for the info Pando. 

And I'm not sure what the difference is. I found these for pretty cheap, and I thought they looked just like the regular imperialis to me as well. There aren't really any bromeliads sold up here so when I saw these I wasn't picky about them being a named variety. I first saw these huge, potted alcantareas at the Fairchild last fall and since then I've kept my eye out for them. I did a search on these and apparently 'Julieta' is a patented version of the normal Imperialis. The purple is deeper and more vivid.

[XYZ]

Pando and all:

There have been several genera carved out of Vriesea in the traditional sense that are sometimes still considered to be subgenera by a minority. There are key floral and seed characters that distinguish some of them fairly readily (e.g. Werauhia and Alcantarea), while some Tillandsia spp. continue to veer back and forth between this genus and Vriesea depending on prevailing opinion. I think Alcantarea is generally considered by bromeliad collectors and taxonomists be a perfectly "good"/non-controversial natural assemblage of mostly large to giant eastern Brazilian endemics.

Patenting an imperialis clone based on degree of purple color is one of the diciest calls that I have ever come across in horticulture. As everyone who has grown numbers of any of the high color forms knows, this trait can vary a lot from season to season and go from dull blue green in the shade in winter to vivid wine red in the high light of summer and fall. I have an old Guy Wrinkle clone called "Double Red" that always held very good color even when small and shaded in Guatemala, unlike Tropiflora's "Red Brazil" and some of better-colored Brazilian tissue-cultured stock that a friend had. When I imported an offset of "Double Red" a few years back, I was disappointed to see that it turned into a more or less normal-looking green imperialis under partially shady Bay Area conditions. When I moved a large offset out of the greenhouse to a bright spot in my brother's garden about 10 miles south of where I live, I was surprised to see that it rapidly recovered its color with better exposure and was a nice, uniform burgundy by late fall.

Having just gone through a very dull, cold and crazy wet winter being neglected in a cold spot in full shade under coastal oak canopy, today this plant is still showing signs of having high color on tap while the mother plant on my deck does not.

BTW, as a tribute to their hardiness, this 24"/60 cm wide plant showed no leaf damage through until late February when it finally was exposed to some (brief) lows of 26 degrees F/-3.3 C and had the leaf wells ice up. The scorching visible on the basal leaves is the aftermath of that two day event. The mother has cruised, unprotected and open to the sky, through many 30 degree F/-1.1 C overnights over the past three years with only a few of its older leaves showing light brown tipping. I believe it is important that daytime temps move significantly higher for damage to be negligible.

J

[Gonzer]

How true Stoney. Expecting the color variations in Alcanterea to remain stable is a crap shoot.

[Really full garden]

I have never had a green one go purple, but have had purple ones go green.

[Briank]

Here is my Imperilis in Green,  and my Julieta in Red Purple. The Imperilis was struggling at first but moved into more shade and is only one i didn't bury w pot,  and it's taken off.   Gonna be Bright green bluish color.  Love these things. 

[Gonzer]

Brian, you've planted them much too close to one another. Ideally about 6'- 8' separation is in order. Plenty of time to re-locate one to another area.

[Briank]

Gonna get pulled up this week anyways I'm probably gonna lose some palms I had a flood, and they gonna have to dig up plumbing line in front yard.  Broms will make it palms probably not gonna try cross my fingers.  If not I'll be exited to re do that section they have to go through.  Broms will get re positioned 

[Matt in OC]

It's tricky with these guys as when they're this size, they look great planted close in the landscape. If you allow for 6' of growth, it can look sparse. How easy are these to move if things start getting cramped? 

[Briank]

Well most bromeliads in my garden are still in pots in the ground as I was told they grow best that way cause they hate wet feet, but my large Rubra and Imperialis I did not do that. I think they pretty hardy to move at this size.  We will find out lol better now than when they get huge I guess.  The blue imperils was tiny 2 yrs ago had grown well in that spot. The Rubra I only got 7 months ago and was good size. 

[Gonzer]

Imperialis and it's kin can be moved quite easily when large and seemingly "unmovable'. You may notice a flush of grass pups appear after relocation. These are a stress remedy for the plant. Most can be removed safely and potted up for future use. I recently dug an old Tillandsia rauhii that has 3' leaves and potted it up and it hasn't looked back. In the scheme of life Brian, your plants are newborns.

 

 

[Matt in OC]

Thanks, Gonzer. I'll just enjoy them where they're at right now and then move them later when things start getting cramped! 

[Jdiaz31089]

Great to hear these do so well in our dry climate. 

@Gonzer i did notice a bunch of pups on mine! I'll let them grow a bit before separating them.

@Briank your yard looks awesome! I wish I had a coastal climate like yours!

 

 

[Kim]

If you have the true Alcantarea 'Julietta' it will look like THIS when grown in perfect conditions. It is not only the color that makes it attractive, but the perfect form and eventual huge size.

I have two of them near my Lemurophoenix halleuxii, and they are deep 'frosty' red in mostly full East Hawaiian sun, prized specimens.  I believe this stunning Alcantarea was hybridized by David Fell of Hawaiian Sunshine Nursery, and it is named after the wife of one of his outstanding employees. As the story went, Mr. Fell was going to name the plant after the employee, but he insisted his wife's name would be better for marketing. (I think his name is Hector, or something like that.)   I have seen huge shade houses with row upon row of this bromeliad in various stages of growth. The real Julietta was born in Peru and she can be seen selling exotic plants at the Maku'u farmers market on Sundays outside Hilo.  I procured a Theobroma cacao from her, among other things. Super nice, lovely lady, most deserving of the fine namesake.

[Jdiaz31089]

3 hours ago, Kim said:

If you have the true Alcantarea 'Julietta' it will look like THIS when grown in perfect conditions. It is not only the color that makes it attractive, but the perfect form and eventual huge size.

I have two of them near my Lemurophoenix halleuxii, and they are deep 'frosty' red in mostly full East Hawaiian sun, prized specimens.  I believe this stunning Alcantarea was hybridized by David Fell of Hawaiian Sunshine Nursery, and it is named after the wife of one of his outstanding employees. As the story went, Mr. Fell was going to name the plant after the employee, but he insisted his wife's name would be better for marketing. (I think his name is Hector, or something like that.)   I have seen huge shade houses with row upon row of this bromeliad in various stages of growth. The real Julietta was born in Peru and she can be seen selling exotic plants at the Maku'u farmers market on Sundays outside Hilo.  I procured a Theobroma cacao from her, among other things. Super nice, lovely lady, most deserving of the fine namesake.

That is such a dang cool story! Definitely glad you chimed in. 

[Pando]

4 hours ago, Kim said:

I have seen huge shade houses with row upon row of this bromeliad in various stages of growth.

Thank you Kim for the great explanation. A quick internet search yielded this image, quite interesting.

 

[Jdiaz31089]

just thought I'd report back. They've reverted to green since they're in nearly full shade, but they seem very healthy. I'm afraid to move them into sun since it's simply too hot now, but perhaps in the fall when the temperatures cool, I might move them to get a darker color on them. 

[Jdiaz31089]