Washingtonia robusta or filifera

[Arnaud33]

Hello,

I bought recently a washingtonia Palm. I think it's a filifera but I'm totally sure. 

Here are some fotos. Do you have any idea ?

[Chris Chance]

It looks like robusta to me.

[PalmatierMeg]

I agree: W. robusta

[Arnaud33]

Thanks!

[smithgn]

Red teeth/thorns and lack of fibers at end of leaves= Robusta for sure

[Jimhardy]

Guessing its a hybrid of the 2...don't see any purple on the trunck

and the thorns are not quite as pronounced as Robusta(which

can have a significant # of fibers)....looks like a cross to me with

a little bit of Filifera showing.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Thats a robusta imo. 

[smithgn]

I'm now waiting for someone to come on here and say, "NOPE! 100%Filifera!" Lol

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

NOPE!!! Thats a filfera!!  JK

[PalmTreeDude]

On 5/16/2017, 9:47:25, smithgn said:

I'm now waiting for someone to come on here and say, "NOPE! 100%Filifera!" Lol

That's only on gardenweb. No hate intended. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by PalmTreeDude

[Laaz]

And give it 10 years & you'll be cleaning up a mess of seeds...  

 

 

[lapalmeraie]

On 17-5-2017 03:47:25, smithgn said:

I'm now waiting for someone to come on here and say, "NOPE! 100%Filifera!" Lol

Hi,

That would be me then 

On 15-5-2017 16:25:01, Jimhardy said:

Guessing its a hybrid of the 2...don't see any purple on the trunck

and the thorns are not quite as pronounced as Robusta(which

can have a significant # of fibers)....looks like a cross to me with

a little bit of Filifera showing.

As Jimhardy already mentioned it lacks the typical purple on the petiole bases. (green bases = typical filifera).

The hastate is also way to long to be a robusta and it lacks tomentum on the both sides (again signs to be a filfera)

The fibers and coloring of the spines isn't that characteristic. Robusta has fibers as well and the filifera has colored spines on the petioles though less pronounced.

I wouldn't say however that there is no robusta blood at all. It could perfectly be a filibusta but type filifera.

Never the less I would like to see a detail of the petiole were it meets the leaf. If it is spined till the ended it would me a filibusta type filifera.

If it lacks spines it would be a filifera.

 

If I'm this sure about this its because I've an article on my site on how the make the difference between the both of them:
http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/07/05/how-to-recognize-the-difference-between-washingtonia-filifera-and-robusta/

I will search for a place to properly introduce myself as well. 

 

Kind regards
Niek aka La Palmeraie

[Axel Amsterdam]

The defining characteristic for filifera is how deep the fronds are cut. Filifera fronds are cut below the 50% mark, something robusta never shows. This is evident from early age. This combined with the off green color is filifera. 

The other textbook characteristics like green petioles, hastula, small teeth can all be found in robusta/filibusta as well and so are secondary and not defining imo. 

If you want to see the characteristics from early age till today check out this link. It shows a filibusta in front and several filifera behind in a row. There is no doubt which is which. Deep cut fronds in dull green vs more plain fronds in glossier green.   

https://goo.gl/maps/Ev6nZrSgcPw

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Axel Amsterdam

[lapalmeraie]

Interesting addition Axel. I'll add in in my article as well.

You do agree with me that shown subject in this topic isn't a robusta?

[Arnaud33]

I've taken new pics today. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

That leaf is very robusta. I have a similar one with green long petioles and small teeth.

Can turn out very nicely but simply isn't filifera.

[lapalmeraie]

Interesting discussion 

new photo does confirm Axels post indeed. But I still do find it lacks some typical characteristics. Don't you?

so for me filibusta it is

[Arnaud33]

For me it's an hybrid as well. On France, all palm trees come from Spain where they are cultivated in huge farm with no separation between species. As a result, it's nearly impossible to buy real filifera or robusta.

[lapalmeraie]

On 7-7-2017 13:55:46, lapalmeraie said:

Interesting addition Axel. I'll add in in my article as well.

I did complete my article with the very useful information from Axel. @Axel Amsterdam  

I used the streetview image as well next to my own robusta for further comparison.

 

Both the color difference as the cutting of the leaf segments shows out really well i.m.o.

 

I agree with Arnaud as well that it isn't inimaginable to have some kind of crossbreed. As told from the beginning, the lack of some characteristics, although maybe secondary,  proofs that it isn't a "pur sang". So W. filibusta but after this interesting exchange I would go for "type robusta" as it does seem to be closer to a robusta than the filifera.

Kr

Niek

[Jimhardy]

Walking around in Arizona you could really see the difference in the leaves....

Robusta is very glossy and deep green,Filifera more a matte ...dull green.

[LivistonaFan]

These are Washingtonias I germinated from rps seeds in the very beginning of 2018 (I think). I thought the washingtonias from rps would be pure ones, not hybrids, but now I am not so sure anymore. 

I know they don't look very healthy as we had a very rainy and cool spring and strong winds + they saw some nights below 0°C and frost since February.

Are these two 100% robustas?

Are these real filiferas (which one seems to be the most filifera, which the least?)?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

The first post is clearly a robusta.  The color and lack of division depth are indicators.  As far as the small plants go there is so much variability based on environmental factors. A shaded filifera will look like a robusta, etc when they are small plants and none of those details can be gathered through pictures online.  If you didn't purchase from an extremely reputable vendor that takes extraordinary care to collect seed from natural stands of plants you have a robusta 99.99% of the time. 

[Rickybobby]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:50 AM, LivistonaFan said:

These are Washingtonias I germinated from rps seeds in the very beginning of 2018 (I think). I thought the washingtonias from rps would be pure ones, not hybrids, but now I am not so sure anymore. 

I know they don't look very healthy as we had a very rainy and cool spring and strong winds + they saw some nights below 0°C and frost since February.

Are these two 100% robustas?

Are these real filiferas (which one seems to be the most filifera, which the least?)?

Have you thought about putting up as well to help?

[LivistonaFan]

 

1 hour ago, Rickybobby said:

Have you thought about putting up as well to help?

Funny you mention it as this was the first thing I did today (at least for some of them) after purchasing new pots three days ago. 

First of all, I wanted to know if they are robusta/filifera/filibusta to be able to plan their final height and cold tolerance. I won't keep them all,  that is why I asked which palm has how much robusta/filifera traits in it. I want to have one or two 98%+ filiferas (I like them very much) and in the best case a filibusta with strong robusta traits (a sturdier robusta with more cold hardiness). As they will be planted out soon their decorative look is not that important for me at the moment. Being tough palms I kind of tested them in harsh conditions since February (survival of the fittest), but they all seem to withstand equally well (in contrast to an Arenga which completely toasted). There certainly are other palms which might need (and deserve?) my attention more.

Because the "robusta" on the right side has more tormentum (is that the correct word?)  on its leaves, is it more filifera-ish than the other?

[Advective]

On 6/1/2019 at 4:50 AM, LivistonaFan said:

These are Washingtonias I germinated from rps seeds in the very beginning of 2018 (I think). I thought the washingtonias from rps would be pure ones, not hybrids, but now I am not so sure anymore. 

I know they don't look very healthy as we had a very rainy and cool spring and strong winds + they saw some nights below 0°C and frost since February.

Are these two 100% robustas?

Are these real filiferas (which one seems to be the most filifera, which the least?)?

I started a couple of RPS Filiferas the same time you did. The first one I left outside in 23ºF this winter in a quart-sized pot with 5-6 strap leaves. It eventually spear pulled when the temperatures warmed up, but in May, it started pushing new growth. This was a surprise to me as the spear pull was very deep; all the way to the base of the plant.

The second plant is starting to take off in its second growing season (no winter stress test for it). But based on my (limited) past experience with Washingtonia, I feel that it is growing vertically too fast to be a Filifera. In other words, the spacing between leaf bases is too great. Filiferas (or at least 90% so) remain squatter as seedlings. I would estimate these two plants are 75% Filifera, 25% Robusta

I would identify the plant in the original post as a Robusta just by looking at the base. It has that Robusta "look" as it is very skinny and growing vertically with swiftness

Edited June 8, 2019 by Advective

[Will]

I have collected some seedlings and seeds from this one. Is that a robusta or filifera or maybe a filibusta?