Does Adonidia merrilli stand a chance in Socal?

[GottmitAlex]

Does the Christmas tree palm survive in the Socal region?

Has anyone had any success growing one in the area?

 

 

[Matt in OC]

Outdoors? No.

Indoors, yes.

[quaman58]

Here's some experience with this. About 10 years ago I collected some seed which sprouted easily. I lost most of them, but had one doggedly continued to grow. It's still smallish & in a pot, but now spends all year outside. It looks to put on good growth this year though. The pattern is always the same: it slows down by November & during the winter the leaves spot. In Spring it throws a stunted leaf, & then it's on it's way & looks dang good by late summer. It loves full blazing sun during the growing season (such as it is on the coast), which surprised me since it is used so often in low light places. In my zone, I would compare it to growing a Carpoxylon. I guess you just have to really want it. Definitely not something you plop in the middle of your exposed yard & expect to survive. But it is sooo close to being growable here. I know the guys in the tropics are bored with them, but we're not in the tropics....

[GottmitAlex]

It is outdoors, under 100% shade under my my wall-structured gazebo.

 

Hypothetical:

If in my special micro-climate with only the occasional help of supplemental brood lamps during cold nights (40f-50f), exposed coconut seedlings, in full sun, grow.

Should this same "technique" suffice for the Adonidia merrilli in my microclimate? In full shade of course. 

 

 

 

 

[Matt in OC]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

Here's some experience with this. About 10 years ago I collected some seed which sprouted easily. I lost most of them, but had one doggedly continued to grow. It's still smallish & in a pot, but now spends all year outside. It looks to put on good growth this year though. The pattern is always the same: it slows down by November & during the winter the leaves spot. In Spring it throws a stunted leaf, & then it's on it's way & looks dang good by late summer. It loves full blazing sun during the growing season (such as it is on the coast), which surprised me since it is used so often in low light places. In my zone, I would compare it to growing a Carpoxylon. I guess you just have to really want it. Definitely not something you plop in the middle of your exposed yard & expect to survive. But it is sooo close to being growable here. I know the guys in the tropics are bored with them, but we're not in the tropics....

Awesome! Got a picture?

 

8 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

It is outdoors, under 100% shade under my my wall-structured gazebo.

 

Hypothetical:

If in my special micro-climate with only the occasional help of supplemental brood lamps during cold nights (40f-50f), exposed coconut seedlings, in full sun, grow.

Should this same "technique" suffice for the Adonidia merrilli in my microclimate? In full shade of course. 

 

 

 

 

I would say full sun. They'll need it in the winter.

[PalmatierMeg]

Definitely full sun. Blazing FL sun, heat & humidity doesn't bother them a lick. But they are cold weather wimps.

[GottmitAlex]

I see. Great. Full sun it is. I'll let them acclimate till fall, then give I'll place them in a sunny spot. (I'll still accommodate a brood lamp for it).

Thank you very much for the helpful tips and direction. 

[quaman58]

Here are a couple from this evening. (22oz brew for scale). First leaf for growing season & spotting from the past winters cold..

[Hammer]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

Here are a couple from this evening. (22oz brew for scale). First leaf for growing season & spotting from the past winters cold..

I have sprouted a ton of these in Orange County.  Killed them all.  If yours makes it, please add me to the list for seed.

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

Here are a couple from this evening. (22oz brew for scale). First leaf for growing season & spotting from the past winters cold..

What is your method? Move it indoors during cold snaps?

[Matt in OC]

2 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Here are a couple from this evening. (22oz brew for scale). First leaf for growing season & spotting from the past winters cold..

Fitting brew choice: just outstanding. Congrats! That's impressive!

[palmad Merc]

I went on a recent surf trip to Samoa and collected 130 seeds at the resort I was staying at, over 100 of them have germinated.

Going to give them a try here in Sydney. 

They are in my germinating greenhouse at the moment. 

Have not seen one in Sydney, so i thought id push it. 

Average winter night temps 8 deg Celsius, that's mid winter lasting a month. 

 

[palmad Merc]

17 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Does the Christmas tree palm survive in the Socal region?

Has anyone had any success growing one in the area?

 

 

Maybe close to a south facing brick wall full sun away from cold wind. 

 

[quaman58]

8 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

What is your method? Move it indoors during cold snaps?

Early on, yes. But not for the past 3 years. It's a bit hard to see, but it's got a short amount of woody trunk. That seems to give most palms somewhat more cold tolerance.

[Palm Tree Jim]

Well grown for here in So. CA.

Any plans to plant it this season?

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

23 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Definitely full sun. Blazing FL sun, heat & humidity doesn't bother them a lick. But they are cold weather wimps.

This.  They LOVE LOVE LOVE the blazing sunshine.  They also hate hate hate cold.  Only marginally more cold tolerant than Coconuts Id say.  Down in Key West these things get crazy tall.  Ive seen them easily 3 stories tall there no problem.  But south FL / the keys are straight up tropical.   So cal, well, not exactly. 

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

This.  They LOVE LOVE LOVE the blazing sunshine.  They also hate hate hate cold.  Only marginally more cold tolerant than Coconuts Id say.  Down in Key West these things get crazy tall.  Ive seen them easily 3 stories tall there no problem.  But south FL / the keys are straight up tropical.   So cal, well, not exactly. 

These things get that tall? I thought they were medium /short. 10ft-20ft.  My idea was to plant these in front of the house. (In front of a southwest facing wall).

But the problem is the power lines are 25ft above the palms designated position...  I looked online for short, appealing, pinnate palms and these came up. 

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/PALMS_AND_CYCADS/Family/Arecaceae/24738/Adonidia_merrillii

 

 

 

 

[donalt]

these palms need SUN,HEAT and HUMIDITY, plus lots of water. if they have it, they look super! otherwise, forget it. 

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

These things get that tall? I thought they were medium /short. 10ft-20ft.  My idea was to plant these in front of the house. (In front of a southwest facing wall).

But the problem is the power lines are 25ft above the palms designated position...  I looked online for short, appealing, pinnate palms and these came up. 

It sounds like if you are very persistent you could get them to grow, but even with persistence they won't do well here in the winter and consequently will look bad for several months of the year.  While you may want to try growing this palm, you may want to consider something else for your spot, which won't show that it is suffering through our winters as much.  Perhaps you should start a new string entitled "What to plant below my 25' high power lines in full sun for So Cal/Upper Baja".  You may get some good suggestions.  Will you consider a clumping species, or do you really want something which is solitary for your application?

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

It sounds like if you are very persistent you could get them to grow, but even with persistence they won't do well here in the winter and consequently will look bad for several months of the year.  While you may want to try growing this palm, you may want to consider something else for your spot, which won't show that it is suffering through our winters as much.  Perhaps you should start a new string entitled "What to plant below my 25' high power lines in full sun for So Cal/Upper Baja".  You may get some good suggestions.  Will you consider a clumping species, or do you really want something which is solitary for your application?

I have a half-moon shaped planter which is against my wall that takes up half of the sidewalk, is about 2 ft tall, 3 ft out and spans 8ft. The idea I have (had) was to plant a bottle palm smack in the middle and towards the sidewalk and the double adonidia behind the bottle palm, (Between the wall and the bottle palm). 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

3 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

These things get that tall? I thought they were medium /short. 10ft-20ft.  My idea was to plant these in front of the house. (In front of a southwest facing wall).

But the problem is the power lines are 25ft above the palms designated position...  I looked online for short, appealing, pinnate palms and these came up. 

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/PALMS_AND_CYCADS/Family/Arecaceae/24738/Adonidia_merrillii

 

 

 

 

Where you are, no, that is extremely unlikely.  In south Florida, esp the keys, yes, they will and DO get that tall. Ive seen them and have photos first hand.  That is there optimal climate though. Your climate is far from optimal for them so I highly doubt they will ever get anywhere near that tall for you.  It sounds like your winters are harder on them, and they almost stop growing for winter months which ostensibly cuts the growth rate to near half of what it is in their optimal climate. 

[GottmitAlex]

2 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Where you are, no, that is extremely unlikely.  In south Florida, esp the keys, yes, they will and DO get that tall. Ive seen them and have photos first hand.  That is there optimal climate though. Your climate is far from optimal for them so I highly doubt they will ever get anywhere near that tall for you.  It sounds like your winters are harder on them, and they almost stop growing for winter months which ostensibly cuts the growth rate to near half of what it is in their optimal climate. 

I see. So now my imminent issue is that the Adonidias I received are quite small and will take a long time (if they survive) to grow into any sort of presentable appearance.

Now I'm considering getting another bottle palm and planting them together as if they were doubles...

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

8 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I see. So now my imminent issue is that the Adonidias I received are quite small and will take a long time (if they survive) to grow into any sort of presentable appearance.

Now I'm considering getting another bottle palm and planting them together as if they were doubles...

It would not hurt to try the Adonidias.  If anyone else has grown them there with any modicum of success, I would say just go for it.  I'm not familiar with your winters so I cant really speak to how well or not they may or may not do, I'm just basing that on what I have read others say.  That said, your climate is def not that of south Florida or the keys. Those are the only places I have ever see them 3 stories tall (about telephone pole height) or even a little taller.   Also, I do not know how long it takes them to attain that height, but down there in what is a prime climate for them, I imagine they grow extremely well. 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Here are a couple photos of some that were at the resort I stayed at in Key West.  As you can see, some are pushing past 3 stories tall and into the 4th.  The photos from the balcony overlooking the pools and bar are from the second floor, and as you can see there  I am looking UP at the crowns of some of the Adonidias.     They do in deed get rather tall in the right climates. 

[Hammer]

18 hours ago, palmad Merc said:

I went on a recent surf trip to Samoa and collected 130 seeds at the resort I was staying at, over 100 of them have germinated.

Going to give them a try here in Sydney. 

They are in my germinating greenhouse at the moment. 

Have not seen one in Sydney, so i thought id push it. 

Average winter night temps 8 deg Celsius, that's mid winter lasting a month. 

 

Separate those seedlings if possible.  I killed most of my seedlings when attempting to go from a community pot to individuals. 

I got mine from a resort in French Polynesia. Really bummed me out to lose them.

[palmad Merc]

21 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Separate those seedlings if possible.  I killed most of my seedlings when attempting to go from a community pot to individuals. 

I got mine from a resort in French Polynesia. Really bummed me out to lose them.

Did the Roots break?

[quaman58]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017‎ ‎6‎:‎37‎:‎12‎, Palm Tree Jim said:

Well grown for here in So. CA.

Any plans to plant it this season?

JIm, I was thinking about next Spring. I'd like it to be about 4' overall & a little stockier at the base. I think that it should be just about there by this time next year. So fingers crossed.

[Hammer]

7 hours ago, palmad Merc said:

Did the Roots break?

Some did.  Yes.  They were so tangled it was impossible to separate without causing damage. Like I said, I was really frustrated with the losses.

[GMann]

Get Archontopheonix, much prettier and they grow ok in SoCal.

[GottmitAlex]

19 minutes ago, GMann said:

Get Archontopheonix, much prettier and they grow ok in SoCal.

But those get really tall, right?

[GMann]

I guess they do yes. Perhaps not in SoCal because of the dryness. I cannot recall seeing many super tall ones in SoCal. But I have not spent a lot of time out there recently.

I am growing them here in Florida and mine are growing pretty slowly. Everyone says they grow fast, but mine are not. I also have Adonidias that grow at about the same pace.

[PalmatierMeg]

My Adonidias, about 14-15 yrs old, are pushing 2 stories tall. If you have small ones in Cali, have you considered a small greenhouse to raise heat & humidity so seedlings grow faster? Some years back I bought a 6x6 portable greenhouse from Harbor Freight for about $100 on sale and set it up inside our birdcage (a similar shade house didn't exist even though shade is critical in FL). I replaced the greenhouse plastic with shadecloth for summer and kept the plastic for winter. It lasted about 5 years before rain & humidity rusted out the metal frame. That's when I switched to shadecloth for my birdcage. Rusting should present much less of a problem in Cali.

The thing to remember about SFL is that we are100s of miles further south than even So Cal. The sun out there may be strong but here it is absolutely ferocious so a greenhouse is useless 9-10 months per year. On a sunny day earlier this week the sunburn time was 10 minutes. And the summer equinox is almost 4 weeks away.

[dwimss]

Sharing with you my new experience with my veitchia merrillii aka adonidias :

3 months now from seeds (below picture), its in Rabat, Morocco mediterranean climate almost like SoCal or Spain.
They germinated in the green house (no heating only sun heating) may 2017, I will keep them there probably for few years until they get bigger and robust if they survive to winters. The min temperature recorded in the greenhouse this winter was 38F/3C during the night for 1 or 2 hours, winter during the day (59F-95F/15C-35C) , I dont know if they will survive next winter in such temperatures. We will see ...

If anyone in Spain/Portugal/Morocco/SoCal .... with similar climate has any experience with adonidias, please share !

Thank you.