Seeds ID (germinated)

[Hamal]

I received the following seeds from a vendor in Sri Lanka as Beccariophoenix alfredii, which they are obviously not. But what are they?

It looks like the cotyledon develops some slightly red color, which you can see even better on another seedling.

My first guess is Dypsis sp. If someone can confirm at least the genus, then I will have an idea of how to move on with these. Maybe we can get back to the topic when they develop the first leaves.

[richnorm]

What size are the seeds?

[Hamal]

The seeds about 1cm or 3/8 of an inch. Germination time was less than 2 weeks.

[Kennybenjamin]

At this stage I do not see any reason why they could not be Beccariophoenix alfredii? 

[Hamal]

I think there at least 3 reasons: the seeds are smaller, do not have three "eyes" that are typical of the tribe Cocoseae and germinated adjacently while B. alfredii is AFAIK a remote germinator.

[Kai]

19 minutes ago, Hamal said:

I think there at least 3 reasons: the seeds are smaller, do not have three "eyes" that are typical of the tribe Cocoseae and germinated adjacently while B. alfredii is AFAIK a remote germinator.

The three "eyes" are not or barely visible on Beccariophoenix seeds. Just wait for the first leaves to appear, that will narrow it down.

I agree with Kennybenjamin that there is no reason to think it's not Beccariophoenix at this point.

[Pal Meir]

Fruit 1-seeded, oblate, 16 °— 24 mm, with a short triangular beak to 3 mm long, 4 mm wide at the base, dark purplish-black at maturity, smooth, becoming striate when dry, surface glabrous except the beak where minutely and obscurely scaly; mesocarp thin, fleshy 1 mm thick, with longitudinal fibers, endocarp 15 °— 22 mm, very thin, scarcely lignified, pores rather obscure, just below the equator. 

Seed oblate 13 °— 20 mm, attached near the base with a broad hilum, with numerous anastomosing raphe branches, endosperm deeply ruminate; embryo lateral below the equator. 

Germination: adjacent-ligular; eophyll entire, lanceolate.

(Palms 51(2) 2007: p. 69)

[richnorm]

Seeds a little small but this is a variable feature. Purple commonly associated with this sp.  They are good germinators. First leaf should be single (Dypsis bifid).

[Hamal]

I pulled out some old pictures from a few years ago when I already germinated B. alfredii once before. I guess there is a possibility those new ones might be Beccarriophoenix, even though the seeds are rather small and the eophyll quite colorful compared to the ones below. Anyway, there is nothing I can do but to wait and see.

[doranakandawatta]

Anyway, there is nothing I can do but to wait and see.

You also can be glad you have viable seeds which germinate, I ordered so many times in Europe seeds which gave me 0 results !

 

[Hamal]

Now 2 months later, it is clear that it is not Beccariophoenix alfredii, but I still wonder what it could be. I have no clue what genus it could be:

Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction now.

[Pal Meir]

Dictyosperma? 

[Hamal]

I guess not. I have another update, as it develops more and more specific features. It is now showing spines.

It also looks like it will have pinnate leaves, while the petioles are reddish.

Does anybody recognize the species? What could it be?

[doranakandawatta]

Spines ? Acanthophoenix rubra ? 

[Hamal]

When I discovered the spines, I had that suspicion, too. But I think Acanthophoenix rubra seeds are much smaller and more oval than the ones I had. The seedlings do have some similarity, though.

[Trava]

Deckenia nobilis or Tectiphiala ferox?

Edited October 1, 2017 by Trava

[edric]

Dypsis cabadae, Ed

[Hamal]

Deckenia nobilis seems unlikely because the seeds look very different. Looking at the pictures on Palmpedia, Tectiphiala ferox shows some similarity, however the petioles of the seedlings seem to be green.

Does Dypsis cabadae have spines?

After some research on Palmpedia, I have found another candidate: Roscheria melanochaetes. Does anybody have this species?

[doranakandawatta]

8 hours ago, edric said:

Dypsis cabadae, Ed

With spines? Ed ?

[caixeta]

Nephrosperma van-houtteanum.

[doranakandawatta]

5 hours ago, Hamal said:

Deckenia nobilis seems unlikely because the seeds look very different. Looking at the pictures on Palmpedia, Tectiphiala ferox shows some similarity, however the petioles of the seedlings seem to be green.

Does Dypsis cabadae have spines?

After some research on Palmpedia, I have found another candidate: Roscheria melanochaetes. Does anybody have this species?

WOW, it's quite difficult since I first wonder which species and from where  a vendor in Sri Lanka can offer ... 

Then; it's a species with spines on very young seedlings , as I saw them on my Deckenia seedlings

Next;  species like Tectiphiala are very rare especially in Sri Lanka where I noticed that most of the species offered can be from seeds collected on the Peradeniya 
gardens lawn (except Lodoicea of which I never saw a fallen fruit on the floor).

Next ; I think Roscheria seedlings (which I got once from Floribunda) don't have so much pinnate leaves ...

 

Here: Deckenia seedlings

and Roscheria seedlings:

 

 

[doranakandawatta]

6 minutes ago, caixeta said:

Nephrosperma van-houtteanum.

THAT'S THE SPINY PINNATE SPECIES ! with reddish color ...
You must be right ! 

and last august in Peradeniya : 

Fruits !

[doranakandawatta]

Here a Nephrosperma seedling we planted last april in Puwakwatta ...

[edric]

Hi Philippe, I wasn't paying attention, no, no spiny Dypsis, Ed

[doranakandawatta]

21 minutes ago, edric said:

Hi Philippe, I wasn't paying attention, no, no spiny Dypsis, Ed

As you saw, Caixeta has found what it was, we all were searching too far!

Nephrosperma van-houtteanum is easy to find in Sri Lanka, and grows well !

Hamal,

As I learnt,  Nephrosperma van-houtteanum has been a famous indoor or conservatory palm in the XIX th century, so you can grow your Nephrosperma in your living-room ...
or you come to Doranakanda gardens and bring your plants .

[Hamal]

Thank you everybody and especially to @caixeta for solving this riddle. Not the species that I ordered and wanted, but still a new and interesting species in my collection.