Howea belmoreana or fosteriana

[bubba]

 These are beautiful palms that are difficult ( some say impossible) to grow in Florida. Below please find several shots of a local specimen. I would greatly appreciate its identification.

[bubba]

 Some more pictures:

[bubba]

 I noticed different qualities in several of the specimens leaflets. Some droopy, while others growing up and out:

 As above, so below?

[Mandrew968]

Definitely forsteriana. They grow well here, so long as they are in the shade.

[DoomsDave]

I agree with Mandrew, though sometimes you can get belmoriana hybrids, too.

[Darold Petty]

H. forsteriana, for sure !   H. f. has leaflets  attached to the rhachis at 180 degrees, a 'flat blade' while H. belmoreana has leaflets attached above the horizontal, a 'trough blade'.  Also, if the palm has spadices present H. f. will have 2-5 spadices attached one to the other at the base, sort of like a persons fingers, at each leafbase scar, while H. b. will have only 1 spadix at each leafbase scar. 

The first photo is Howea forsteriana, and the second photo is Howea belmoreana, (the palm behind the woman in blue, and before the person in red )

Also, the rhachis of H. belmoreana is much more recurved.  The photo credits are to Troy Donovan, "Tassie_Troy"  

[Tracy]

6 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

H. belmoreana has leaflets attached above the horizontal, a 'trough blade'

Darold provides an excellent quick way to see the difference with the "trough blade" description.  The close up of this Howea belmoreana shows the trough he describes.

[gyuseppe]

In these days,  are  germinated   2 seeds of Howea belmoreana , sown about 2 years ago !

[Eric in Orlando]

I wish Howea was planted more in central and south Florida. It grows great in shade and is reasonable cold tolerant. Its a very lush and tropical looking palm. They are available but always sold as interior specimens.

[Phoenikakias]

19 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

H. forsteriana, for sure !   H. f. has leaflets  attached to the rhachis at 180 degrees, a 'flat blade' while H. belmoreana has leaflets attached above the horizontal, a 'trough blade'.  Also, if the palm has spadices present H. f. will have 2-5 spadices attached one to the other at the base, sort of like a persons fingers, at each leafbase scar, while H. b. will have only 1 spadix at each leafbase scar. 

The first photo is Howea forsteriana, and the second photo is Howea belmoreana, (the palm behind the woman in blue, and before the person in red )

Also, the rhachis of H. belmoreana is much more recurved.  The photo credits are to Troy Donovan, "Tassie_Troy"  

 

How about any difference in growth speed?

[Darold Petty]

In my cool, humid garden H. forsteriana grows slightly faster. My Howeas only grow 1 or 2 fronds per year.  In the warmer climate of southern California I believe the growth rate is 3 or 4 fronds per year.

 Common wisdom believes that H. forsteriana is also a bit more frost hardy, perhaps 1 degree C, but I have no direct observance of this because my garden does not suffer frost.

[PalmatierMeg]

I have two forsteriana and one belmoreana growing in deep shade in my back yard jungle. In summer the temps are 10-15 degrees cooler than ambient temps so they aren't subjected to as much heat/humidity stress. Our winters don't seem to bother them a lick. The two forsteriana are the survivors of a batch of seedlings I got off eBay back in 2004. I purchased the belmoreana as a 1g in late 2005 at a palm sale in Homestead. When I lost my queen canopy a couple years ago they were exposed to direct sun, esp. in winter and suffered scorched leaves. But the whole leaf African oil palm I planted in place of one of the queens has grown tall enough to shade the Howeas again and they are much happier. They can be grown here if you are willing to make concessions to their needs.

[Tracy]

55 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

In my cool, humid garden H. forsteriana grows slightly faster. My Howeas only grow 1 or 2 fronds per year.  In the warmer climate of southern California I believe the growth rate is 3 or 4 fronds per year.

 Common wisdom believes that H. forsteriana is also a bit more frost hardy, perhaps 1 degree C, but I have no direct observance of this because my garden does not suffer frost.

Not sure about cold hardiness comparison, because I have never experienced problems with either.  On the growth, H forsteriana is definitely faster, but once H belmoreana gets going it isn't a slouch here in my climate.  I have had 3 new fronds on my H belmoreana this spring in Leucadia, although my 3 in Carlsbad have never grown that fast; that would be a typical year for the ones in Carlsbad, but they are also grown as a group planting with all three trunks about 50 cm apart.  H forsteriana will definitely stretch in shade, and grow more compact in full "coastal sun", but can handle both here in Southern California.  The belmoreana I posted as a single is about 5 years younger than the grouping of three below, but neither has attained the height of any of the forsteriana's planted about the same time.

[Darold Petty]

Tracy, thanks for this photograph.  It shows very well the recurved rhachis of H. belmoreana. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

3 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

How about any difference in growth speed?

Since they started trunking my H. forsteriana have be solid growers. 

My  H. belmoreana to date seems to be a little bit slower. It is not trunking yet.....but very soon for that first ring!

 

[gyuseppe]

If it may be interesting, small seedlings of Howea belmoreana, have passed this winter at record temperatures of -5.7 degrees Celsius, but in a very sheltered place

[Mandrew968]

I have actually seen both species growing in full sun, in South Florida; belmoreana was burnt but was holding on and the forsteriana were looking great-asked the grower how he does it and he told me regular applications of fungicide was his secret.

[greysrigging]

I have worked on Lord Howe Island and Norfolk Island and seen both species in their natural habitat ( Lord Howe ) and in cultivation for the seed and nursery trade ( Norfolk ). They are a beautiful palm and do quite well in Sydney and the south  east coast of Australia.

[greysrigging]

On 6/16/2017, 4:08:13, gyuseppe said:

If it may be interesting, small seedlings of Howea belmoreana, have passed this winter at record temperatures of -5.7 degrees Celsius, but in a very sheltered place

That is amazing as in their natural habitat they would rarely if ever see temps below 6c or 7c.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/station.jsp?lt=site&lc=200839

[Missi]

On 6/16/2017, 7:22:29, Mandrew968 said:

I have actually seen both species growing in full sun, in South Florida; belmoreana was burnt but was holding on and the forsteriana were looking great-asked the grower how he does it and he told me regular applications of fungicide was his secret.

How does fungicide keep a plant from becoming scorched by the sun?

[Missi]

I'm having to make room in my lanai as my rarer palms (and collection) grow and my forsteriana duo is taking up much-needed room (as is Hubby's grill, but that's another topic... ). I'd like to plant them in the ground. I see the general consensus is to plant them in shade in FL. Will the plants be able to withstand full sun when much larger? Otherwise, how would one keep mature Howea in full shade? Please help me brain-storm, as I need to locate an area of my property I can successfully grow mine in-ground. If there won't be a good area, I'd rather keep them in their pot in my lanai because they're my oldest palms and I'm quite fond of them (and can't tolerate the sight of sun scorched foliage).

[Missi]

Also, just how much FL sun CAN they healthily take? Full shade? Part shade?