bismarckia question and introduction

[krisinmexico]

greetings all , this is my first post after lurking for weeks. i am in awe of the knowledge base here in what is a excellent forum. i live in south baja california and have some palms which are doing their best to survive under my care. attached are some photos of a bismarckia that lately has has some yellowing of leaf tips.(older leafs) other bismark specimens on my place are not showing this symptom. i would love any comments and council from the forum.   just some back ground the soil has a high PH 8.1  i have  begun to use elemental sulfur to try to adjust the PH. thanks in advance for your comments, cheers, kris

[krisinmexico]

anybody? 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Welcome!!

Are all the leaves showing the yellowing or just older ones?

[krisinmexico]

thank you, Jim!  it is only the older leaves, and only on one palm. I have about 14 others that look robust and green.  I would really like to help this tree as it is the most conspicuous of all, being directly in front of the house. I am hoping to adjust the ph, with sulfur, to free up some iron in the soil. the climate here must be similar to Madagascar because all the palms from that area do well here. anyway, thanks in advance for any council. cheers 

[JT in Japan]

Is it supposed to be such a thorough tan colour? Not green or grey/blue? It certainly is striking!  

JT

[Danilopez89]

Looks like its mostly on older fronds... have you fed your palms with palm fertilizer this season? 

When I over water mine for a length of time I start to get yellow tips, especially on the oldest fronds. Fertilizer seems to quickly help them. IMO. 

Btw. Have you posted any pics of your garden yet? Baja is beautiful!!! 

[krisinmexico]

11 hours ago, JT in Japan said:

Is it supposed to be such a thorough tan colour? Not green or grey/blue? It certainly is striking!  

JT

hi jt, thank you.  that color you see may be more of a photographic thing. they actually have that blue/green color typical of the bismarks.  Of the dozen or more I have here, the ones started from seed are the fastest growing, most robust specimens. 

[krisinmexico]

10 hours ago, Danilopez89 said:

Looks like its mostly on older fronds... have you fed your palms with palm fertilizer this season? 

When I over water mine for a length of time I start to get yellow tips, especially on the oldest fronds. Fertilizer seems to quickly help them. IMO. 

Btw. Have you posted any pics of your garden yet? Baja is beautiful!!! 

yes, only the older fronds. and only one of the bismarks. i must confess, my use of fertilizer has a lot to be desired. yes, i use it, but not on a schedule, without keeping good notes, and generally in a reactive mode. my entire horticultural habits need a dose of discipline! availability of fertilizer specifically formulated for palms in not common here. i do make a point to add the micros. and have in the past months, have been trying to address the high soil PH.   I think once I get the ph under control, the iron will become more available.  the watering is something I am giving thought to. one issue is I have wet climate specimens alongside  dry climate trees. usually they are getting too much or too little irrigation.

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, krisinmexico said:

i must confess, my use of fertilizer has a lot to be desired. yes, i use it, but not on a schedule, without keeping good notes, and generally in a reactive mode. my entire horticultural habits need a dose of discipline! availability of fertilizer specifically formulated for palms in not common here. i do make a point to add the micros. and have in the past months, have been trying to address the high soil PH.   I think once I get the ph under control, the iron will become more available.  the watering is something I am giving thought to. one issue is I have wet climate specimens alongside  dry climate trees. usually they are getting too much or too little irrigation.

Hi Kris in Baja!  I think anywhere in Baja will be drier than where I'm growing my Bismarkia, and I know I can't over water mine growing just north of San Diego in Carlsbad, so I think you can cross that off the list.  You have partially answered your own question, regarding the need for getting on a more organized feeding schedule.  One thing that I didn't do very well for years was mulch properly, which can help with both creating healthier soil for growing as well as helping to retain moisture.  Looks like you have some space, so if you aren't already doing your own composting, that may be a good start.  That isn't specific to your question regarding your problematic B nobilis, but worth commenting on since you raised the topic of getting more organized in your feeding program. 

I imagine that when you do get rain, you are getting it during the mid to late summer as hurricane season starts off the mainland, so you are less of a Mediterranean climate than your neighbors here to the north in Upper California.  Would love to see more photos of your garden, as I imagine it is a great climate if you can get enough water to supplement during the drier months!

[sonoranfans]

high soil pH can cause Fe deficiency as it is rendered unavailable, giving the classic chlorisis symptom of yellowing.  Chlorosis can have many causes and soil pH can be one, but it is not th eonly one.  That said, the only time I ever had one of my Bizzies look like that was in arizona coming out of the winter, where I planted one in a low spot in wet clay.  Bismarckias like good soil drainage, especially in winter.  This year there was lots of rain on the west coast an low temps means slow drying of the soil.  It could be a coincidence, but I wouldnt dismiss wet soil.  Here is a handy chart for  bioavailability of micros vs pH.  thicker line means more available.  http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

This year there was lots of rain on the west coast an low temps means slow drying of the soil

 

On 7/2/2017, 7:38:34, krisinmexico said:

the climate here must be similar to Madagascar because all the palms from that area do well here.

So you are somewhere on the Baja peninsula... clarification might be in order.  ¿Dónde vives? Estado Baja California o Estado Baja California Sur?  Pacific or Sea of Cortez side?  I guess I was assuming you were from BC Sur, where the climate is quite a bit hotter and not Mediterranean like the northern Pacific coast of Baja.

[sonoranfans]

No I lived in Gilbert Arizona for 10 years and grew 4 Bismarckia.  My trees saw ~ 8" a year of rain, temps to 120F in summer, mostof the rain was in the summer monsoon, drier than coastal and even inland southern california in winter, even quit a bit drier than palm springs.  Winter january weather typically 55-65F highs and dry, but cooler overnight.  cool temps and heavy soils may be an issue if there is some rain and this year looked to be a heavy winter rain year all up and down the state of CA.  My smallest Bizzie had that yellowing on the oldest fronds due to being in a low spot with 1x a week drip irrigation.  I did treat extensively with sulfur pellets for 5 years and still got the yellowing on the smaller one due to my heavy calcerous soil.  My three others never had yellowing leaves, even when the soil pH was ~ 8.

[sonoranfans]

As a PhD chemist, I was testing my soil pH at work so I know what it was and at pH=8 there was no yellowing on 3/4 bismarckias of 7-12' overall.  I have found bismarckia and brahea armata to be pretty robust(no yellowing) at pH=8.  I treated the soil due to the yellowing of other palm species like butia odorata, syagrus.  Not all palms exhibit the same sensitivity to soil pH=8, some are adapted to a moderately alkaline soil.

[krisinmexico]

22 hours ago, Tracy said:

Hi Kris in Baja!  I think anywhere in Baja will be drier than where I'm growing my Bismarkia, and I know I can't over water mine growing just north of San Diego in Carlsbad, so I think you can cross that off the list.  You have partially answered your own question, regarding the need for getting on a more organized feeding schedule.  One thing that I didn't do very well for years was mulch properly, which can help with both creating healthier soil for growing as well as helping to retain moisture.  Looks like you have some space, so if you aren't already doing your own composting, that may be a good start.  That isn't specific to your question regarding your problematic B nobilis, but worth commenting on since you raised the topic of getting more organized in your feeding program. 

I imagine that when you do get rain, you are getting it during the mid to late summer as hurricane season starts off the mainland, so you are less of a Mediterranean climate than your neighbors here to the north in Upper California.  Would love to see more photos of your garden, as I imagine it is a great climate if you can get enough water to supplement during the drier months!

ah, mulch. i have tons of mulch from a pto chipper/shredder here. i use lots on the fruit trees. the thing is, closer to the house we have not used much yet. i understand all the good things it does for the soil life...our problem... it is also habitat for the rest of the critters too. scorpions, snakes, and other assorted critters. i think we need to rethink and use more of it to even out the movement of moisture. and of course a dose of discipline in use of soil admendments. the climate here will grow dang near anything, although not all grow well. lots of dry air blowing around, and strong sun that stresses leaves. thanks so much for your comments. 

[krisinmexico]

19 hours ago, Tracy said:

 

So you are somewhere on the Baja peninsula... clarification might be in order.  ¿Dónde vives? Estado Baja California o Estado Baja California Sur?  Pacific or Sea of Cortez side?  I guess I was assuming you were from BC Sur, where the climate is quite a bit hotter and not Mediterranean like the northern Pacific coast of Baja.

tracy, you guessed correctly! the nearby village is called el pescadero. we are located between la paz and cabo san lucas. on the pacific side. the awesome micro climate here, and somewhat cooler ocean currents keep this area 10 to 20 degrees(f) cooler than either cabo or la paz. located about a kilometer from the beach in an area known for growing chilies, strawberries, and herbs, mainly basil.

[krisinmexico]

19 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

As a PhD chemist, I was testing my soil pH at work so I know what it was and at pH=8 there was no yellowing on 3/4 bismarckias of 7-12' overall.  I have found bismarckia and brahea armata to be pretty robust(no yellowing) at pH=8.  I treated the soil due to the yellowing of other palm species like butia odorata, syagrus.  Not all palms exhibit the same sensitivity to soil pH=8, some are adapted to a moderately alkaline soil.

thanks for that. evidence to support that is the other dozen bismarks have none of that leaf tip yellowing. i am on a quest to lower the ph using sulfur. i have been told its a slow process. 

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, krisinmexico said:

the nearby village is called el pescadero. we are located between la paz and cabo san lucas. on the pacific side. the awesome micro climate here, and somewhat cooler ocean currents keep this area 10 to 20 degrees(f) cooler than either cabo or la paz.

I have actually surfed the local break there in El Pescadero several years ago with my sons.  I loved it there, much cooler and rural than your neighboring cities to the south.  I have to wonder what the local source of water is there, as I know that the area has been a major growing center for stawberries and herbs for a long time now.  One of the accountants in my business worked for a company involved in growing herbs and basil there before working for us... which was back in the early 1990's.  So there has to be a dependable source of fresh water nearby and strawberries in particular are sensitive to high levels of salts in their irrigation water.  Groundwater replenished by your monsoonal rains during hurricane season?

[krisinmexico]

9 hours ago, Tracy said:

I have actually surfed the local break there in El Pescadero several years ago with my sons.  I loved it there, much cooler and rural than your neighboring cities to the south.  I have to wonder what the local source of water is there, as I know that the area has been a major growing center for stawberries and herbs for a long time now.  One of the accountants in my business worked for a company involved in growing herbs and basil there before working for us... which was back in the early 1990's.  So there has to be a dependable source of fresh water nearby and strawberries in particular are sensitive to high levels of salts in their irrigation water.  Groundwater replenished by your monsoonal rains during hurricane season?

tracy,my place is very close to the san pedrito break. the irrigation water (for those of us with a sort of deeded right to) comes from 2 sources. one is artesian the other is an ordinary well. the mountains to the east catch a lot of moisture coming off the pacific. often, when looking towards the mountains we see it raining. the area is considered an oasis.  lots of different minor crops too.

[SouthFLA]

Don't bother with the pH. The soil in Madagascar where Bismarckia is found has a good amount of alkalinity. Here in FL they grow out of pure lime rock with high pH with no problems. Your problem is fertilizer and water. Bismarckia love lots of water and micronutrients. Get yourself a high quality slow release palm fertilizer and up your watering schedule. The pics you posted are classic nutrient deficiency symptoms.