How wet is too wet for Livistona nitida?

[Joe NC]

So I have a potted L. nitida that I was thinking about putting in the ground to eventually murder in a zone 8 winter.  It outgrew the pot a little sooner than I imagined, and I'm debating just planting it out this year and protecting it while small instead of potting up and bringing it in during the extreme cold.  I read that they like wet spots, but I was wondering to what extent.  I have a low spot in my yard that is nearly constantly squishy when there has been consistent rain, and all of my soil is heavy.  In the same general area I have a Sabal Brazoria, that thrives.  Will the nitida handle the terrible drainage and sometimes standing water as well as the Sabal?       

[Tyrone]

I don't have an answer for you, but if you try it and it succeeds then I might give it a try myself. My gut feeling is it will love it. If it's anything like australis it should just go berserk. 

[Jdiaz31089]

Are you going to plant it now? I'd wait until next spring to give it a better shot at becoming established before winter. 

[tropicbreeze]

I've seen them in habitat growing along and almost in creeks. But it was sandstone country where drainage would be good. Never seen them in swamp type environments so I'd avoid any chance of them being in stagnant water.

These photos are during the dry season, so during the wet water levels would be right up around the palms.

[lapalmeraie]

Wow, great to discover their natural habitat! Tnx for sharing.

Mine isn't doing that well at all. I planted mine in the ground zone 7, 2 years ago but especially in this season which was extremely dry it doesn't recover well from it winter damage (-6,8°C without protection)

2016

2017

[Sanips]

6 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

Are you going to plant it now? I'd wait until next spring to give it a better shot at becoming established before winter. 

Agree

[lapalmeraie]

All depends imho whether this Livistona was just bought or if it is already in your garden for a while.
Just bought, than I would also wait for next spring to plant it as it probably didn't had to cope with any winterish weather condition so far.
However, if you do have this Livistona for quite some time, it should be adapted to your local conditions, especially if it did already see some fresh spring or maybe even winter weather? Here I'm planning by exemple to plant my Washingtonia in the ground but it was kept outside in a container for the last winters. Even if it seems to be to late in the season to plant, it will be much better of planted than another winter in pot. 

[Joe NC]

On 8/24/2017, 12:50:09, tropicbreeze said:

I've seen them in habitat growing along and almost in creeks. But it was sandstone country where drainage would be good. Never seen them in swamp type environments so I'd avoid any chance of them being in stagnant water.

I was going by a photo on palmpedia that shows one growing in standing water http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/File:Post-42-0-47234200-1437139529.jpg

The photo is from the Brisbane Botanical Garden, but it is just a small plant and it might have since died from the water...

On 8/23/2017, 9:26:56, Jdiaz31089 said:

Are you going to plant it now? I'd wait until next spring to give it a better shot at becoming established before winter. 

I'll probably just hold off and plant it in the spring.  I was getting antsy to plant out some of my potted palm ghetto.

 

On 8/24/2017, 4:03:05, lapalmeraie said:

from it winter damage (-6,8°C without protection)

I'll protect, but -7 is almost a guarantee at least once a winter.  

 

[Pal Meir]

Two more photos, showing their typical habitat in gorges:

[Arecaceus]

Well even Washingtonias and EVEN FILIFERAS like lots of water and swampy conditions, BUT only if the water is fresh and moving. Creeks and rivers constantly deliver clean and fresh water plus some oxigen to the roots. Idk if nitida can cope with just some soaking wet soil for extended periods of time, but I would always consider what the situation is like in natural habitat.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Hortulanus

[KrisKupsch]

They grow on the edge of inland rivers on floodplains and not restricted to Gorges so to speak. So at times those along the Dawson river etc would be subjected to weeks of inundation. It gets extremely cold out where they grow. For Queensland it is very cold. They occur in the central highlands where temps can get down to -15C on rare occasions up in the hills (Mt Moffat), so with cold air drainage some of these Palm colonies would experience freezing conditions. I’ve at least 5 in the garden with 2 in lots sun in pretty wet clay next to a permanent bog. They have raged. 3 others up the hill in a gully in the shade where it’s drier have grown a third as fast. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by KrisKupsch

[Phoenikakias]

In a climate with cold winter temps, I would prefer soil draining faster than clay. I grow one in pot with coir as main medium and still after several years since germination it wobles. Only by holding off daily watering seems to anchor itself better.

[DAVEinMB]

@Joe NC how's this palm doin? I got one I plan on putting in the ground this coming spring

I think I remember seeing it in another thread... 🤔

Edited December 27, 2022 by DAVEinMB

[NickJames]

One of my nitida sat in this water for about a week. 
It started out as relatively clear rainwater and eventually turned tannic and discolored as it got stained by oak leaves, mulch, and septic effluent. 
The palm survived (but battered by the hurricane winds). 
I have extremely fast draining sand so the soil is now bone dry. 

[Joe NC]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:51 AM, DAVEinMB said:

@Joe NC how's this palm doin? I got one I plan on putting in the ground this coming spring

I think I remember seeing it in another thread... 🤔

It is still alive.  Unprotected.  It was heavily damaged last year with a low of 19 and ice, and some moderate damage this year with a low of "21".  I was away during the Christmas cold snap, but the weather history data said the ultimate low was 21 at the airport.  Considering it was colder in Myrtle, and my mule is showing some bronzing, I'm thinking it went below 21...

It grows out of the damage really fast, and looks respectable by early/mid summer.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Joe NC

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, Joe NC said:

It is still alive.  Unprotected.  It was heavily damaged last year with a low of 19 and ice, and some moderate damage this year with a low of "21".  I was away during the Christmas cold snap, but the weather history data said the ultimate low was 21 at the airport.  Considering it was colder in Myrtle, and my mule is showing some bronzing, I'm thinking it went below 21...

It grows out of the damage really fast, and looks respectable by early/mid summer.

Yea i recorded 13F on my weather station for this cold snap and I'm roughly 6 miles from the coast. 

You got any recent pics of it? I have a Decora in the ground that has really surprised me both with cold tolerance and growth rate but my understanding is nitida does better in both categories

[Joe NC]

 

24 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

You got any recent pics of it? I have a Decora in the ground that has really surprised me both with cold tolerance and growth rate but my understanding is nitida does better in both categories

It is a terrible photo, but what I had on hand.  Was taken this past July, after being nearly defoliated the previous winter.  Is even taller (but fried) now.  Don't mind the cucumber that ended up using it for support, or the trumpet vine that I can't seem to kill....

It has a small trunk forming, maybe 20-24" across at the base?  It gains ~3' of overall height each year.    

[RJ]

2 hours ago, Joe NC said:

 

It is a terrible photo, but what I had on hand.  Was taken this past July, after being nearly defoliated the previous winter.  Is even taller (but fried) now.  Don't mind the cucumber that ended up using it for support, or the trumpet vine that I can't seem to kill....

It has a small trunk forming, maybe 20-24" across at the base?  It gains ~3' of overall height each year.    

That’s it I’ve gotta get my hands on one 😎

[DAVEinMB]

4 hours ago, RJ said:

That’s it I’ve gotta get my hands on one 😎

I sourced mine from @palmsrgreat you may want to check with him

[RJ]

43 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

I sourced mine from @palmsrgreat you may want to check with him

What size was it if you don’t mind me asking?

[DAVEinMB]

10 minutes ago, RJ said:

What size was it if you don’t mind me asking?

Can't remember the size but here's a couple reference pictures from today. I bought it back in August and the first new frond it pushed out was palmate 

[Fusca]

Looks great Dave, when are you going to plant it in the ground?  It's about the size of one I planted in San Antonio.  It loves heat and water and I'm sure you get your share of heat! 

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Looks great Dave, when are you going to plant it in the ground?  It's about the size of one I planted in San Antonio.  It loves heat and water and I'm sure you get your share of heat! 

Thanks Jon, I'm stoked to get it in the ground 🤙. I got it late in the season and figured I'd wait till this coming spring to site it... glad I did given this cold snap we just got. Haven't decided where it's going yet but I got a bit of time, and yea.. it'll get its fair share of heat haha

[Joe NC]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:04 AM, DAVEinMB said:

Yea i recorded 13F on my weather station for this cold snap and I'm roughly 6 miles from the coast. 

I found a NC State weather station a mile from my house, looks like the ultimate low here was 18.0.  This makes more sense given the damage I am seeing on the mules and Livistona.

[DAVEinMB]

3 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I found a NC State weather station a mile from my house, looks like the ultimate low here was 18.0.  This makes more sense given the damage I am seeing on the mules and Livistona.

That's wild you had 5 degrees on me

[Foxpalms]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:31 PM, Phoenikakias said:

In a climate with cold winter temps, I would prefer soil draining faster than clay. I grow one in pot with coir as main medium and still after several years since germination it wobles. Only by holding off daily watering seems to anchor itself better.

In my opinion for lots of palms here such as syagrus, Beccariophoenix, phoenix dactylifera ect wet cold soil is more likely to kill the palm from root rot rather than the cold, so having fast draining soil is important. Howea, Rhopalostylis, archontophoenix and chamedorea don't mind wetter soil though from my experience with them.

[Phoenikakias]

On 12/27/2022 at 2:31 PM, Phoenikakias said:

In a climate with cold winter temps, I would prefer soil draining faster than clay. I grow one in pot with coir as main medium and still after several years since germination it wobles. Only by holding off daily watering seems to anchor itself better.

Here is mine, it's started looking somewhat  better after restriction in water supply.

[Phoenikakias]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

In my opinion for lots of palms here such as syagrus, Beccariophoenix, phoenix dactylifera ect wet cold soil is more likely to kill the palm from root rot rather than the cold, so having fast draining soil is important. Howea, Rhopalostylis, archontophoenix and chamedorea don't mind wetter soil though from my experience with them.

@Apostolos05 you copy?