What Is The Absolute Hardiest Coconut Variety?

[PalmTreeDude]

What is the Hardiest variety of coconut? About what tempatures can it take?

[Austinpalm]

John, aka Mr. Coconut Palm on this board has told me that the northern India tall variety is the cold hardiest, followed closely by the Mexican tall variety. Not sure where he got his information or what he based this on. Perhaps he will add to the discussion. I believe the temps I heard were 25F and 26F respectively. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Austinpalm
correcting misspelling

[Zeeth]

Keep in mind that any coconut that survives 25 or 26 degrees, even the hardier tall types, will be severely damaged and take years to recover. I've got a collection of different coconut varieties that I'm growing to assess for hardiness differences, and I can only do this because winters with that kind of cold only come to us once every 20 or so years. 

[Xerarch]

Also keep in mind that with coconuts it's not always the lowest temp they take that makes the difference, you might say it's their "cool hardiness". A couple weeks with lows in the upper 30's and low 40's can kill a coconut even if it never freezes. 

[Zeeth]

32 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Also keep in mind that with coconuts it's not always the lowest temp they take that makes the difference, you might say it's their "cool hardiness". A couple weeks with lows in the upper 30's and low 40's can kill a coconut even if it never freezes. 

A good example of this was Anna Maria Island during 2010. None of the weather stations on the island recorded below 33˚ but lots of coconuts were badly damaged, with a lot of Malayan dwarf coconuts dying due to the protracted cold. 

[lahuasteca]

On 9/14/2017, 3:12:14, Zeeth said:

A good example of this was Anna Maria Island during 2010. None of the weather stations on the island recorded below 33˚ but lots of coconuts were badly damaged, with a lot of Malayan dwarf coconuts dying due to the protracted cold. 

I can attest to that here in Brownsville, Texas.  I planted two Malayan dwarfs in Sept., 2010 (big mistake!).  The winter of 2010-11 - lowest temp. recorded here was 35 F. - but a week of cold drizzle with temps upper 30's-low 40's killed both.  This time around will plant in Feb. some larger (10 gal.) trees with time to strengthen the roots and trunk before the next winter.  FWIW, I think the Malayan coconuts are very cold sensitive.  I've seen some, what I think, are Mexican talls around town that have survived some pretty strong below freezing cold air outbreaks (28 F.).  

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I honestly believe the Indian Talls from north central India are the most cold hardy.  I have seen photos of them growing pretty big (about 50ft. tall) in the foothills of the Himalayan Mountains, where I believe temps drop down to about 29F or 30F at least once each winter.  I estimate them to be hardy down to 25F, and they can probably take extended periods of chilly (but non freezing weather) better than other varieties too.  The second most cold hardy variety is probably either the Mexican Tall from the Gulf Coast of Mexico, especially the ones growing in Matamoros, or a variety I heard of from Coastal China that is known for surviving freezing weather and extended chilly weather too.  These two varieties, I would estimate to be hardy down to 26F.  In any case, the Mexican Tall is the most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere that I know of, being slightly more cold hardy in general than the Jamaican Tall.  As far as the Malayan Dwarfs are concerned, I am convinced that the Green Malayan is slightly more cold hardy than the Golden and Yellow Malayans are, as I have seen a mature surviving (and fruiting) Green Malayan that used to be growing in front of a two story home on Ocean Dr. here in Corpus Christi.  This was until it was way over trimmed as it was still recovering from the 2011 freeze and the worst drought in Texas history a few years ago.  These things combined with some palm trimmer butchering it was just too much for it and it died about a year and a half ago.  Anyway, I have seen Green Malayans survive winters here in South Texas and the Valley that Golden and Yellow Malayans did not survive.  I estimate Green Malayans to be hardy to about 28F and the Golden and Yellow varieties to be hardy to about 29F.  Of course, the temp figures I give are for palms that have some size to them and are healthy.  Really young palms of the varieties I mentioned above, as well as those that are sickly may succumb to the temps I mentioned.

Keith (Zeeth) as I recall, has had some success with a green variety of Hawaiian Tall that survived temps of 27F or 28F, so that is likely another variety that has some degree of cold and cool hardiness.  Out of the 600+ varieties of coconut palm that supposedly exist worldwide in the tropics and warmer subtropics, there are likely others that are somewhat cold/cool hardy too.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

I can attest to that here in Brownsville, Texas.  I planted two Malayan dwarfs in Sept., 2010 (big mistake!).  The winter of 2010-11 - lowest temp. recorded here was 35 F. - but a week of cold drizzle with temps upper 30's-low 40's killed both.  This time around will plant in Feb. some larger (10 gal.) trees with time to strengthen the roots and trunk before the next winter.  FWIW, I think the Malayan coconuts are very cold sensitive.  I've seen some, what I think, are Mexican talls around town that have survived some pretty strong below freezing cold air outbreaks (28 F.).  

Gene,

Welcome to the forum.  Where do you get your coconut palms from down there?

John

[RedRabbit]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I honestly believe the Indian Talls from north central India are the most cold hardy.  I have seen photos of them growing pretty big (about 50ft. tall) in the foothills of the Himalayan Mountains, where I believe temps drop down to about 29F or 30F at least once each winter.  I estimate them to be hardy down to 25F, and they can probably take extended periods of chilly (but non freezing weather) better than other varieties too.  The second most cold hardy variety is probably either the Mexican Tall from the Gulf Coast of Mexico, especially the ones growing in Matamoros, or a variety I heard of from Coastal China that is known for surviving freezing weather and extended chilly weather too.  These two varieties, I would estimate to be hardy down to 26F.  In any case, the Mexican Tall is the most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere that I know of, being slightly more cold hardy in general than the Jamaican Tall.  As far as the Malayan Dwarfs are concerned, I am convinced that the Green Malayan is slightly more cold hardy than the Golden and Yellow Malayans are, as I have seen a mature surviving (and fruiting) Green Malayan that used to be growing in front of a two story home on Ocean Dr. here in Corpus Christi.  This was until it was way over trimmed as it was still recovering from the 2011 freeze and the worst drought in Texas history a few years ago.  These things combined with some palm trimmer butchering it was just too much for it and it died about a year and a half ago.  Anyway, I have seen Green Malayans survive winters here in South Texas and the Valley that Golden and Yellow Malayans did not survive.  I estimate Green Malayans to be hardy to about 28F and the Golden and Yellow varieties to be hardy to about 29F.  Of course, the temp figures I give are for palms that have some size to them and are healthy.  Really young palms of the varieties I mentioned above, as well as those that are sickly may succumb to the temps I mentioned.

Keith (Zeeth) as I recall, has had some success with a green variety of Hawaiian Tall that survived temps of 27F or 28F, so that is likely another variety that has some degree of cold and cool hardiness.  Out of the 600+ varieties of coconut palm that supposedly exist worldwide in the tropics and warmer subtropics, there are likely others that are somewhat cold/cool hardy too.

John

Fascinating post! All the Malayans here took some level of damage from 32f last winter. Your estimate of 28-29f being their limit sounds about right to me...  If you think the Indian Talls are hardy to 25f that's a substantially hardier palm. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

• 14 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

  Fascinating post! All the Malayans here took some level of damage from 32f last winter. Your estimate of 28-29f being their limit sounds about right to me...  If you think the Indian Talls are hardy to 25f that's a substantially hardier palm. 

  Yeah, believe me, I sure wish we could get them shipped to us here.  I would be happy if we could even get viable Indian Tall nuts shipped here that we could sprout.  Unfortunately thanks to Homeland Insecurity, we can't get them shipped here.  I met a man at the Botanical Gardens here a couple of years ago that tried to get 7 or 8 of them shipped to him, and he told me Homeland Security confiscated the box when it arrived on the West Coast of the U.S., took his Indian Tall nuts out of the box, and then shipped him the torn up empty box!  If we could get them here, I think they would be the perfect variety for Corpus Christi (with the Mexican Tall being a close second), and they would grow to maturity here and produce nuts every year, especially ones grown by the water. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I have a Fiji Dwarf sprout that was shipped to me by a man in Florida.  I have it in a 10 gal. pot, and will probably put it in the ground either next spring or the following spring to evaluate its cold/cool hardiness.  I have heard conflicting things about the Fiji Dwarf.  First, I heard that it is the LEAST cold hardy variety, but it is supposedly 100% resistant to Lethal Yellowing.  Then, I heard from him that it is actually more cold hardy than it is given credit for.  He said the ones in his area (Pine Island, FL) survived the 2010 winter pretty good, while other varieties were cold injured.  So, we will see.

 

[lahuasteca]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

Welcome to the forum.  Where do you get your coconut palms from down there?

John

From Florida.  Usually when I friend of mine is going over there, I asked them to bring me back one or two specimens.  Pre-Irma I just had about 20 seed nuts shipped in from Ft. Lauderdale.  I've got them all sprouted and rooted - will be taking some to the flea market in Pt. Isabel on Sunday, Oct. 1 (will post in the for sale section).  I'm keeping for my yard two green Malayans in 10 gallon containers - will plant in Feb. after cold weather.  Have some golds in 3 gallon containers, would really like to give them a try, but I'm sure they are too cold sensitive.

Now - Matamoros.  I used to drive down to the El Cielo Biosphere about once a month.  Needless to say, haven't been on that route for a number of years.  I have seen sprouted coconuts in the local markets in Matamoros but (1.) highly illegal to try and cross them and (2.) for the same reason I don't go to El Cielo, haven't been to Matamoros for quite some time.  Don't know where legally to get some Mexican talls - I'm sure the specimens I see healthy around Brownsville are Mexican talls.

A good friend of mine (now diseased planted about 10 Malayan dwarfs in his yard on Kingfisher St. on South Padre Island.  He lost about half of these during the chilly winter of 2010-2011 (definitely no freeze on South Padre Island).  After his death the surviving ones were just neglected and sadly none are around today.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

3 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

I can attest to that here in Brownsville, Texas.  I planted two Malayan dwarfs in Sept., 2010 (big mistake!).  The winter of 2010-11 - lowest temp. recorded here was 35 F. - but a week of cold drizzle with temps upper 30's-low 40's killed both.  This time around will plant in Feb. some larger (10 gal.) trees with time to strengthen the roots and trunk before the next winter.  FWIW, I think the Malayan coconuts are very cold sensitive.  I've seen some, what I think, are Mexican talls around town that have survived some pretty strong below freezing cold air outbreaks (28 F.).  

Gene,

In your area, I think it's a good idea to plant coconut palms around late Feb. to early Mar. in order to give hem as much time as possible to get established before the next winter, like you said.  My Green Malayan that I planted off my front patio back in June of last year survived the two night freeze we had here in Jan. in which it got down to 27.2F the first night and 28.5F the second night, with a total of about 12 to 14 hours below freezing in my yard, and all I did was wrap the trunk with an old blanket.  It is growing again like a weed and putting out huge beautiful leaves now.  It has about 1.5 ft. of woody trunk and is about 12 ft. tall in overall height.  I did however, lose all my younger and smaller in ground coconut palms, including a 7ft. tall overall height Maypan I had.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 minutes ago, lahuasteca said:

From Florida.  Usually when I friend of mine is going over there, I asked them to bring me back one or two specimens.  Pre-Irma I just had about 20 seed nuts shipped in from Ft. Lauderdale.  I've got them all sprouted and rooted - will be taking some to the flea market in Pt. Isabel on Sunday, Oct. 1 (will post in the for sale section).  I'm keeping for my yard two green Malayans in 10 gallon containers - will plant in Feb. after cold weather.  Have some golds in 3 gallon containers, would really like to give them a try, but I'm sure they are too cold sensitive.

Now - Matamoros.  I used to drive down to the El Cielo Biosphere about once a month.  Needless to say, haven't been on that route for a number of years.  I have seen sprouted coconuts in the local markets in Matamoros but (1.) highly illegal to try and cross them and (2.) for the same reason I don't go to El Cielo, haven't been to Matamoros for quite some time.  Don't know where legally to get some Mexican talls - I'm sure the specimens I see healthy around Brownsville are Mexican talls.

A good friend of mine (now diseased planted about 10 Malayan dwarfs in his yard on Kingfisher St. on South Padre Island.  He lost about half of these during the chilly winter of 2010-2011 (definitely no freeze on South Padre Island).  After his death the surviving ones were just neglected and sadly none are around today.

Hey Gene,

I have seen mature Golden Malayans in the Valley, but the Green Malayan definitely does better there.  I wish there was a way to get sprouted Mexican Tall nuts from Matamoros.  I think there may be a way, so I have heard by going through the USDA, but it is probably a lengthy and complicated process.  Unfortunately, very few of the nuts that I get to sprout from beach coconuts here turn out to be what I think are pure Mexican Talls.  Most are hybrids between the Mexican Tall and a Malayan Dwarf variety, with a few of the sprouts being pure Malayans. 

Be careful selling your palms at a flea market or online.  I used to do that here in Corpus Christi, and the Texas Dept. of Ag came after me with a vengeance, threatening to fine me $1,000 for selling plants without a $110 per year nursery license.  Then after LOTS of protesting, threatening to sue them, and threatening to go to my state legislator, they rescinded he citation and changed it to a warning, saying that if they ever caught me again selling plants, that I would get a $5,000 per day citation!!!  So much for the "Land Of The Free"!!!

I think there is still one of those palms on Kingfisher on South Padre.  That is the street two streets north of Red Snapper, isn't it?  I was just down there a couple of months ago, and saw a mature coconut palm on that street, and there are two mature producing coconut palms on Red Snapper.  The one right behind the Blue Marling grocery store is a palm that was brought as a sprout from Puerto Rico by a lady who used to own the home.  She told me that one year she had 93 nuts on her palm there at South Padre!  The one down at the end of the street on the side of a house appears to be a pure Mexican Tall that has a few nuts on it, but like most of them it is under watered and neglected.

John

[lahuasteca]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

In your area, I think it's a good idea to plant coconut palms around late Feb. to early Mar. in order to give hem as much time as possible to get established before the next winter, like you said.  My Green Malayan that I planted off my front patio back in June of last year survived the two night freeze we had here in Jan. in which it got down to 27.2F the first night and 28.5F the second night, with a total of about 12 to 14 hours below freezing in my yard, and all I did was wrap the trunk with an old blanket.  It is growing again like a weed and putting out huge beautiful leaves now.  It has about 1.5 ft. of woody trunk and is about 12 ft. tall in overall height.  I did however, lose all my younger and smaller in ground coconut palms, including a 7ft. tall overall height Maypan I had.

John

 

John,

Wow!  That's pretty cold for a Malayan dwarf.  What I plan to do for the first couple of years is wrap the leaves and trunks with sponge insulation and blankets and cover the ground where the roots are.  This will work with a radiation freeze, but probably won't help much with a wet wind freeze that we get sometimes on the Gulf coast.

I do remember when we had the ice storm in 2010 or 2011 on the Brownsville UTRGV campus they wrapped the royal palms in insulation and it worked.  The royal palms in Harlingen and McAllen were burned.  The Mexican tall coconut at the motel on Central Blvd. here in Brownsville lost a few leaves, but otherwise came through fine.  I saw it today - trunk about 20 ft. high or so with a full crown of leaves..

Gene

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 minutes ago, lahuasteca said:

 

John,

Wow!  That's pretty cold for a Malayan dwarf.  What I plan to do for the first couple of years is wrap the leaves and trunks with sponge insulation and blankets and cover the ground where the roots are.  This will work with a radiation freeze, but probably won't help much with a wet wind freeze that we get sometimes on the Gulf coast.

I do remember when we had the ice storm in 2010 or 2011 on the Brownsville UTRGV campus they wrapped the royal palms in insulation and it worked.  The royal palms in Harlingen and McAllen were burned.  The Mexican tall coconut at the motel on Central Blvd. here in Brownsville lost a few leaves, but otherwise came through fine.  I saw it today - trunk about 20 ft. high or so with a full crown of leaves..

Gene

 

Hey Gene,

Be sure to check out the one at the back behind the pool at the Flamingo.  It's even a few feet taller!  Those two there are the tallest coconut palms I know of in the RGV.  I do know that you CAN get viable fruits from coconut palms in the RGV.  There is a doctor I met a couple of years ago who has an office on Paredes Line Rd. who has a mature coconut palm that he as gotten a few sprouts from the nuts of it, and the Kathy Paychek who has River's End Nursery in Bayview has gotten some sprouts from nuts off of her mature Green Malayans planted at her nursery.  It remains to be seen if we can get any of our coconut palms to produce a viable nut here in Corpus.

John

[lahuasteca]

John,

Thanks for the heads up!  Where does one get the nursery license?  The Beulah flea market at Pt. Isabel is a big place for all kinds of tropical plants.  I know the Comptrollers office patrols the place looking for sales tax license, didn't know the Texas Dept. of ag. would be there, but it makes sense.  I'll go to there website.

My yard is overgrown with heliconias and all kinds of varieties of sweet bananas.  I've been cutting and potting them, and was going to go to the Pt. Isabel flea market to try and unload them.

Gene

 

[GottmitAlex]

Best of luck on finding Mexican talls. I would suggest the supermarkets, 99 cent stores etc. You'll see the sticker labels on each of the dehusked nuts.

Reading threads like this brings it all full circle: We all long for the (real) King of Palms, the Cocos Nucifera.

[SEPalm]

How do yellow Maypans fair? Does anyone grow these?

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, lahuasteca said:

 

A good friend of mine (now diseased planted about 10 Malayan dwarfs in his yard on Kingfisher St. on South Padre Island.  He lost about half of these during the chilly winter of 2010-2011 (definitely no freeze on South Padre Island).  After his death the surviving ones were just neglected and sadly none are around today.

South Padre was no warmer than Brownsville during the February of 2011 freeze. Nearly 30 consecutive hours at or below freezing (afternoon high failed to reach above the freezing mark) with an absolute low of 28F. That freeze froze most of the giant Ficus trees way back. I visited in the summer of 2010 and the coconuts were largely spared from the past winter's freeze (low of 32F) but the next freeze absolutely nuked them. Was amazing that many of them managed to survive at all. 

That's right coconuts (both Mexican Talls and Malayan Dwarfs) can survive 30 consecutive hours at or below freezing. 

Here's the coconut on Kingfish St. (pic taken Nov 2016)

Zone 10 in Texas

Edited September 16, 2017 by Xenon

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, lahuasteca said:

John,

Thanks for the heads up!  Where does one get the nursery license?  The Beulah flea market at Pt. Isabel is a big place for all kinds of tropical plants.  I know the Comptrollers office patrols the place looking for sales tax license, didn't know the Texas Dept. of ag. would be there, but it makes sense.  I'll go to there website.

My yard is overgrown with heliconias and all kinds of varieties of sweet bananas.  I've been cutting and potting them, and was going to go to the Pt. Isabel flea market to try and unload them.

Gene

 

Gene,

You have to go through the Texas Dept. of Agriculture.  You can probably find the license info on their website.  Supposedly, they monitor the Internet, which is what I was told by the first agent that came to my place.  I used to post ads for my plants on Craigslist, as well as selling plants at flea markets, farmers' markets, the Botanical Gardens annual Spring Plant Sale, etc.  I was furious at them singling me out for some reason.  I told them there are dozens of people who sell plants out of their own yards here in Corpus Christi, and in the Valley, probably hundreds who do so, as well as men who sell plants out of the back ends of their pick up trucks in the Valley, and none of them have licenses!  I was told that if you sell a single plant, you have to have a nursery license, with the exception of herbs, which can be sold without a license.  Be especially careful selling fruit trees.  They REALLY don't allow that!  It was a real disappointment to me.  I was hoping to make a go of it supplementing my income by selling 100% organically grown palms and other tropical trees and plants.  I only cleared about $300 to $400 per year doing it, and that went to pay a bill or two and buy some groceries for my wife and I.  It wasn't like I was making thousands of dollars a month and not giving the system their cut of it!

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Best of luck on finding Mexican talls. I would suggest the supermarkets, 99 cent stores etc. You'll see the sticker labels on each of the dehusked nuts.

Reading threads like this brings it all full circle: We all long for the (real) King of Palms, the Cocos Nucifera.

Alex,

I think a lot of the store bought nuts are from Malayan Dwarf trees, due to the Lethal Yellowing outbreak that hit Mexico back a few decades ago  Over the last 20+ years, I have tried sprouting about 120 store bought nuts, and only 3 sprouted, but they all eventually died.  Back when I was in high school in the '80's, you could easily sprout a store bought coconut, but nowadays, I think they are doing something to them like radiating them and refrigerating the nuts, which will make them not spout.

John

[LF-TX]

8 hours ago, Xenon said:

South Padre was no warmer than Brownsville during the February of 2011 freeze. Nearly 30 consecutive hours at or below freezing (afternoon high failed to reach above the freezing mark) with an absolute low of 28F. That freeze froze most of the giant Ficus trees way back. I visited in the summer of 2010 and the coconuts were largely spared from the past winter's freeze (low of 32F) but the next freeze absolutely nuked them. Was amazing that many of them managed to survive at all. 

That's right coconuts (both Mexican Talls and Malayan Dwarfs) can survive 30 consecutive hours at or below freezing. 

Here's the coconut on Kingfish St. (pic taken Nov 2016)

Zone 10 in Texas

Agreed. My neighbor managed to sprout a coconut that washed up on the beach and it's doing great! I'm sure it was one from Mexico, so clearly Mexican variety grows very well here

[lahuasteca]

8 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

You have to go through the Texas Dept. of Agriculture.  You can probably find the license info on their website.  Supposedly, they monitor the Internet, which is what I was told by the first agent that came to my place.  I used to post ads for my plants on Craigslist, as well as selling plants at flea markets, farmers' markets, the Botanical Gardens annual Spring Plant Sale, etc.  I was furious at them singling me out for some reason.  I told them there are dozens of people who sell plants out of their own yards here in Corpus Christi, and in the Valley, probably hundreds who do so, as well as men who sell plants out of the back ends of their pick up trucks in the Valley, and none of them have licenses!  I was told that if you sell a single plant, you have to have a nursery license, with the exception of herbs, which can be sold without a license.  Be especially careful selling fruit trees.  They REALLY don't allow that!  It was a real disappointment to me.  I was hoping to make a go of it supplementing my income by selling 100% organically grown palms and other tropical trees and plants.  I only cleared about $300 to $400 per year doing it, and that went to pay a bill or two and buy some groceries for my wife and I.  It wasn't like I was making thousands of dollars a month and not giving the system their cut of it!

John

John,

Thanks for the heads up!  Where does one get the nursery license?  The Beulah flea market at Pt. Isabel is a big place for all kinds of tropical plants.  I know the Comptrollers office patrols the place looking for sales tax license, didn't know the Texas Dept. of ag. would be there, but it makes sense.  I'll go to there website.

My yard is overgrown with heliconias and all kinds of varieties of sweet bananas.  I've been cutting and potting them, and was going to go to the Pt. Isabel flea market to try and unload them.

Gene

John,

Ouch!  $180 for a class M (temporary location) nursery license.  I'm sure the Port Isabel swamp meet would be a prime target - promoted by the city, big crowds, and right there in the open on Highway 100.  I'm sure bananas and coconuts would be high on their list of fruit trees, although I think they are mainly concerned with citrus.  I'm retired, fixed income - that story, may or may not go the license and flea market route.  I have a finite number of coconut plants (after Irma it may take awhile for the Florida sources to start shipping), but an infinite quantity of bananas and heliconias, that I hate to just cut and throw away.

Again, thanks for the heads up and will let you know when headed north out of the LRGV.

Gene

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

4 minutes ago, lahuasteca said:

John,

Thanks for the heads up!  Where does one get the nursery license?  The Beulah flea market at Pt. Isabel is a big place for all kinds of tropical plants.  I know the Comptrollers office patrols the place looking for sales tax license, didn't know the Texas Dept. of ag. would be there, but it makes sense.  I'll go to there website.

My yard is overgrown with heliconias and all kinds of varieties of sweet bananas.  I've been cutting and potting them, and was going to go to the Pt. Isabel flea market to try and unload them.

Gene

John,

Ouch!  $180 for a class M (temporary location) nursery license.  I'm sure the Port Isabel swamp meet would be a prime target - promoted by the city, big crowds, and right there in the open on Highway 100.  I'm sure bananas and coconuts would be high on their list of fruit trees, although I think they are mainly concerned with citrus.  I'm retired, fixed income - that story, may or may not go the license and flea market route.  I have a finite number of coconut plants (after Irma it may take awhile for the Florida sources to start shipping), but an infinite quantity of bananas and heliconias, that I hate to just cut and throw away.

Again, thanks for the heads up and will let you know when headed north out of the LRGV.

Gene

 

Gene,

You're welcome.  It is a real shame that they can do to people what they did to me, but I can honestly say, I have never encountered any Dept. of Ag agents at flea markets and farmers' markets.  The ones that came to my home, came because of an ad I had posted on Craigslist trying to sell some of my plants.  I was just assuming that they may be getting more aggressive and starting to go the local markets too.  If I were you, I wouldn't give up on selling them there, but just be cautious.  Maybe attend it and ask the other plant vendors if they have a nursery license.  Be sure to make it clear to them that you are not with the Dept. of Ag, but just want to sell a few of your plants there too.  They should open up to you then and let you know how they are doing it.  At a local flea market here in Corpus Christi, only 1 out of 8 vendors selling plants had a nursery license when I asked them about a year and a half ago.  I have a degree in Agriculture from Texas A&M University and I used to be sheriff's deputy about 24 years ago, so it REALLY angers me when the system abuses its authority and goes after innocent people for doing such a totally innocent thing like selling plants.  After all, I certainly wasn't making much money at all doing it, just trying to supplement my limited income too, by doing something I love and have a natural knack for.  I can understand them doing legitimate pest and disease inspections and corresponding quarantines if necessary, but to go after us little guys just for selling a few plants every once and a while without an outrageously expensive license is the classic example of tyranny and authority run amuck!  And on top of it all, I was selling high quality ALL ORGANICALLY grown healthy plants, unlike some of the crappy disease infected and pest ridden plants I have seen at some of the officially licensed nurseries!

John

[PalmTreeDude]

Anyone able to get an Indian Tall? And where is the Florida Tall?

[RedRabbit]

13 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

• Yeah, believe me, I sure wish we could get them shipped to us here.  I would be happy if we could even get viable Indian Tall nuts shipped here that we could sprout.  Unfortunately thanks to Homeland Insecurity, we can't get them shipped here.  I met a man at the Botanical Gardens here a couple of years ago that tried to get 7 or 8 of them shipped to him, and he told me Homeland Security confiscated the box when it arrived on the West Coast of the U.S., took his Indian Tall nuts out of the box, and then shipped him the torn up empty box!  If we could get them here, I think they would be the perfect variety for Corpus Christi (with the Mexican Tall being a close second), and they would grow to maturity here and produce nuts every year, especially ones grown by the water. 

I understand customs routinely opens packages. I'm not sure what the rules are on shipping coconuts, but it might be worth trying to ship them again.  

[LF-TX]

14 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

Welcome to the forum.  Where do you get your coconut palms from down there?

John

Sorry for being nosy, but last week I got word from my neighbor that his aunt has been able to get some coconut palms at a flea market in Alamo, near McAllen. I can't remember EXACTLY where it is nor the name, but I'll ask again. From where the coconuts are from ... I have no idea. 

[lahuasteca]

5 hours ago, LF-TX said:

Sorry for being nosy, but last week I got word from my neighbor that his aunt has been able to get some coconut palms at a flea market in Alamo, near McAllen. I can't remember EXACTLY where it is nor the name, but I'll ask again. From where the coconuts are from ... I have no idea. 

Sounds like a good lead. I was over in Mcallen today - are they selling unhusked nuts or plants.  I'd be interested in either.

Thanks

Gene, in Brownsville

[LF-TX]

1 hour ago, lahuasteca said:

Sounds like a good lead. I was over in Mcallen today - are they selling unhusked nuts or plants.  I'd be interested in either.

Thanks

Gene, in Brownsville

If I understood correctly, they're selling actual palms 

[GottmitAlex]

19 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

I think a lot of the store bought nuts are from Malayan Dwarf trees, due to the Lethal Yellowing outbreak that hit Mexico back a few decades ago  Over the last 20+ years, I have tried sprouting about 120 store bought nuts, and only 3 sprouted, but they all eventually died.  Back when I was in high school in the '80's, you could easily sprout a store bought coconut, but nowadays, I think they are doing something to them like radiating them and refrigerating the nuts, which will make them not spout.

John

John,

You're on to something. I did notice the same just recently. But not with Mexican-labeled nuts. Three months ago I went to the 99c store in San Diego. Picked up two Mexican tall nuts (went by the label) and seven Asian nuts.

I assume the Asian nuts are dwarfs because of their sizes: tiny and considerably paler compared to the darker, larger Mexican dehusked coconuts.  Well, I ziploc'ed each individual coconut. Both Mexican talls began to germinate within a week. None of the Asian cocos (which I assume are dwarfs) did anything. Just a bit of a fuzzy haze on one but no growth, no germination, anything. 

Ill post a picture. Lol I still have some in my "greenhaus".  As you, I think they added in some chemical to the dwarfs.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

8 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I understand customs routinely opens packages. I'm not sure what the rules are on shipping coconuts, but it might be worth trying to ship them again.  

It would be great if someone could get permission to get either Indian Tall sprouts from north central India, or just even the ripe seed nuts and share them with us coconut lovers on here, even if there was a reasonable price for them.  Hopefully, it could be done without too much bureaucratic red tape and without them being radiated or anything else like that.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

8 hours ago, LF-TX said:

Sorry for being nosy, but last week I got word from my neighbor that his aunt has been able to get some coconut palms at a flea market in Alamo, near McAllen. I can't remember EXACTLY where it is nor the name, but I'll ask again. From where the coconuts are from ... I have no idea. 

That's great.  Yeah, try to find out more.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

10 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

John,

You're on to something. I did notice the same just recently. But not with Mexican-labeled nuts. Three months ago I went to the 99c store in San Diego. Picked up two Mexican tall nuts (went by the label) and seven Asian nuts.

I assume the Asian nuts are dwarfs because of their sizes: tiny and considerably paler compared to the darker, larger Mexican dehusked coconuts.  Well, I ziploc'ed each individual coconut. Both Mexican talls began to germinate within a week. None of the Asian cocos (which I assume are dwarfs) did anything. Just a bit of a fuzzy haze on one but no growth, no germination, anything. 

Ill post a picture. Lol I still have some in my "greenhaus".  As you, I think they added in some chemical to the dwarfs.

 

 

 

 

Alex,

That's great that you got the two Mexican nuts to sprout.  I look forward to seeing the photo when you get a chance.

John

[GottmitAlex]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

That's great that you got the two Mexican nuts to sprout.  I look forward to seeing the photo when you get a chance.

John

32 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

That's great that you got the two Mexican nuts to sprout.  I look forward to seeing the photo when you get a chance.

 

Quote

(On my cell, sorry for the poor quoting/pasting.)

 

Here is the Asian dwarf^^^^

This is one of the Mexican talls along the stagnant, fuzzy, Asian dwarf. 

One can tell the difference even in the store (they are in separate areas) without any difficulty, the Mexican talls are significantly larger and darker than the Asian dwarfs.   I say Asian because I do not know the country of origin. The open cardboard box they're in has oriental characters on it.  The only english words on the box say "imported by" then oriental words finish the sentence.

Edited September 17, 2017 by GottmitAlex
Cell phone

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Alex,

I think your Mexican nut sprout is ready to pot up.  I wouldn't leave it in the bag too long, because it may get a fungus and die.  Did you buy It in California or in Mexico?

John

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

I think your Mexican nut sprout is ready to pot up.  I wouldn't leave it in the bag too long, because it may get a fungus and die.  Did you buy It in California or in Mexico?

John

John, 

Bought in CA. 

The MO I've used in the past is once the first leaf (forget the scientific name) develops, that's when I pot (or plant) it up. By then the taproot has traveled all the way to the bottom of the nut. I have one in the ground from the 99c store as well. And it's  growing like crazy.  It germinated in Nov of last year and I planted it early April. (Had the Product of Jal, Mex oval sticker on the nut)   

Here are the pics. 

April 5th. Finally out of the greenhaus.

These are from 15 min ago.

I turned the garden lights on only for this pic. They have been off since February.

Edited September 17, 2017 by GottmitAlex

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

11 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

John, 

Bought in CA. 

The MO I've used in the past is once the first leaf (forget the scientific name) develops, that's when I pot (or plant) it up. By then the taproot has traveled all the way to the bottom of the nut. I have one in the ground from the 99c store as well. And it's  growing like crazy.  It germinated in Nov of last year and I planted it early April. (Had the Product of Jal, Mex oval sticker on the nut)   

Here are the pics. 

April 5th. Finally out of the greenhaus.

These are from 15 min ago.

I turned the garden lights on only for this pic. They have been off since February.

Alex,

If that way is working well for you, then by all means keep it up.  I was just concerned about it developing a fungus in the humid conditions of the bag.  Your in ground coconut palm looks great by the way.  So, you are able to buy viable nuts from a market in California.  I wish we could get viable nuts in our markets here, but I think it's interesting that something is being done to our market nuts that keeps them from sprouting, or if they do sprout, they die pretty soon afterwards, yet your nuts are able to sprout and survive.  I thought that if you had gotten them in Mexico, then maybe that would mean that the Mexican government is NOT doing to them what our government is doing and that the Mexican ones would thus be in a more natural able to sprout state.

John

[GottmitAlex]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

If that way is working well for you, then by all means keep it up.  I was just concerned about it developing a fungus in the humid conditions of the bag.  Your in ground coconut palm looks great by the way.  So, you are able to buy viable nuts from a market in California.  I wish we could get viable nuts in our markets here, but I think it's interesting that something is being done to our market nuts that keeps them from sprouting, or if they do sprout, they die pretty soon afterwards, yet your nuts are able to sprout and survive.  I thought that if you had gotten them in Mexico, then maybe that would mean that the Mexican government is NOT doing to them what our government is doing and that the Mexican ones would thus be in a more natural able to sprout state.

John

John,

What you say makes perfect sense.

In my neck of the woods, I think this logic applies to nuts from Asia: No viable nuts whatsoever. 

Here again, look for the "product of Mexico" sticker on the nuts. At least on the left coast, all the nuts from Mexico have been viable for me. Sure, I killed some due to negligence: they had sprouted, silly me, I took them outside for some winter sun while they were inside the ziploc bags.  They exploded. Cracked the nut in half. I heard the "pop". I know of some folks who actually eat the "kings candy" of a coconut and can still plant and nurture the sprout to maturity. But alas, only in the tropics.

Alex

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by GottmitAlex

[lahuasteca]

On 9/16/2017, 1:12:23, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

You have to go through the Texas Dept. of Agriculture.  You can probably find the license info on their website.  Supposedly, they monitor the Internet, which is what I was told by the first agent that came to my place.  I used to post ads for my plants on Craigslist, as well as selling plants at flea markets, farmers' markets, the Botanical Gardens annual Spring Plant Sale, etc.  I was furious at them singling me out for some reason.  I told them there are dozens of people who sell plants out of their own yards here in Corpus Christi, and in the Valley, probably hundreds who do so, as well as men who sell plants out of the back ends of their pick up trucks in the Valley, and none of them have licenses!  I was told that if you sell a single plant, you have to have a nursery license, with the exception of herbs, which can be sold without a license.  Be especially careful selling fruit trees.  They REALLY don't allow that!  It was a real disappointment to me.  I was hoping to make a go of it supplementing my income by selling 100% organically grown palms and other tropical trees and plants.  I only cleared about $300 to $400 per year doing it, and that went to pay a bill or two and buy some groceries for my wife and I.  It wasn't like I was making thousands of dollars a month and not giving the system their cut of it!

John

Sounds like my situation exactly - make a few extra $$$$ from what is growing in the yard and by some supplies.  If I fill out the application are they going to come to my yard and then crap all over the place when they see coconuts growing? The informal economy in the LRGV is major - swap meets and pickup trucks selling plants and produce just about everywhere.