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Posted

I bought a 15 gallon "Sabal x texensis"  8 years ago and put it in the ground.  The person who I acquired it from told me they grew it from seed and it was around 8 years old at the time.  I assumed x texensis = Brazoria.  It took off like a rocket and now 16 years from seed, it is over 12 feet tall to the tip of the fronds and has a couple feet of fully expanded trunk, and about 6 feet of trunk from the ground to the base of newest emerging spear.  The leaves are large and highly costapalmate, and the fattest part at the base of the trunk is about 3 feet in diameter.

IMAG0390.thumb.jpg.df136b72a20510c73d9ac         

Not much for scale, but here is the palm with old flower stalks within the crown. 

Once it started gaining height quickly and has highly costapalmate leaves I just assumed I had a regular S. palmetto.  However, there was one weird thing about it.  Once it had the smallest bit of trunk, it started to bloom, but for years it never would set seeds.  I read that early flowering was a trait of S. mexicana, and that a characteristic of this species was that it has fruit and seed larger than palmetto.  I also read that they used to be called texensis which led to confusion with proper Brazoria....  My problem to get a good ID was that it would just bloom and then the stalks would just dry up.  However for some reason this year, one flower stalk managed to set seed.

IMAG0388.thumb.jpg.32d72388d7830ce6a8042

This shows fruit and seed from local Sabal minor, palmetto, and my ? plant.  

The fruit and seed are larger than palmetto for sure.  Looks like my "x texensis" is likely a S. mexicana.  Mystery solved?      

 

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Even Sabal Riverside puts out big seeds compared to normal S.palmetto.But S.river side palm is huge both its fronds and the trunk area.But your palm does not exhibit that quality.

If you trim your old leaves it would be clear to ID a Sabal Mexicana.

Love,

Kris.

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

Posted
10 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I bought a 15 gallon "Sabal x texensis"  8 years ago and put it in the ground.  The person who I acquired it from told me they grew it from seed and it was around 8 years old at the time.  I assumed x texensis = Brazoria.  It took off like a rocket and now 16 years from seed, it is over 12 feet tall to the tip of the fronds and has a couple feet of fully expanded trunk, and about 6 feet of trunk from the ground to the base of newest emerging spear.  The leaves are large and highly costapalmate, and the fattest part at the base of the trunk is about 3 feet in diameter.

IMAG0390.thumb.jpg.df136b72a20510c73d9ac         

Not much for scale, but here is the palm with old flower stalks within the crown. 

Once it started gaining height quickly and has highly costapalmate leaves I just assumed I had a regular S. palmetto.  However, there was one weird thing about it.  Once it had the smallest bit of trunk, it started to bloom, but for years it never would set seeds.  I read that early flowering was a trait of S. mexicana, and that a characteristic of this species was that it has fruit and seed larger than palmetto.  I also read that they used to be called texensis which led to confusion with proper Brazoria....  My problem to get a good ID was that it would just bloom and then the stalks would just dry up.  However for some reason this year, one flower stalk managed to set seed.

IMAG0388.thumb.jpg.32d72388d7830ce6a8042

This shows fruit and seed from local Sabal minor, palmetto, and my ? plant.  

The fruit and seed are larger than palmetto for sure.  Looks like my "x texensis" is likely a S. mexicana.  Mystery solved?      

 

Whats up with the two rows of seeds? 

Mexicana has much larger seed the size if the ones on the upper right. Riverside seeds are between a causarium and mexicana in size roughly~85% of mexicana seed. 

Posted
2 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Whats up with the two rows of seeds? 

Mexicana has much larger seed the size if the ones on the upper right. Riverside seeds are between a causarium and mexicana in size roughly~85% of mexicana seed. 

The author can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think the first row are the fruit and the second row are the seeds.

  • Upvote 2

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Posted
27 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

The author can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think the first row are the fruit and the second row are the seeds.

I see it now that i zoomed in on my phone.  I have pics of a dozen sabal and butia seed side by side i will dig up and post for reference.  

Posted

Here are my 2 c; Henderson in the Field Guide describes as defining trait of mexicana also that it often flowers, when the stem is still very short. Of course several growers put in doubt the conclusions drawn in above book about the delimitation of the various spp in the genera of Sabal, Brahea, Acrocomia etc. Also Don Hodel in an article in the magazine of SPS uses as defining traits for mexicana the the division to 2/3 of the lamina in to segments, the strongly ribbed petals (when dry) and the very short (only 1/6 of the inflorescence) to almost lacking peduncle. Since your palm blooms already you can apply all those defining features on your specimen.

Posted
On 11/5/2017, 10:20:58, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I see it now that i zoomed in on my phone.  I have pics of a dozen sabal and butia seed side by side i will dig up and post for reference.  

Yeah top row is fruit.

It would be great to see the pics of the Sabal seeds for comparison.

On 11/6/2017, 8:40:20, Phoenikakias said:

the strongly ribbed petals (when dry) and the very short (only 1/6 of the inflorescence) to almost lacking peduncle

I'll definitely have to check the flowers next year.

This palm has always just seemed odd to me because the growth rate and form made it apparent it wasn't a Brazoria, but it did flower from such a small size (since reaching max trunk diameter before gaining any height).

Ultimately it really doesn't matter what exact Sabal it is, I am just curious.        

  • Upvote 1

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