Arenga micrantha flowering

[richnorm]

The primary stem sent up two spears then stopped so I thought flowering was on the way but had to wait quite a few months.  A smaller sucker has also put out an inflorescence.  Another grower here has observed this pattern too.  At this stage the inflorescences look different so maybe I have male and female?  Anyone else got experiences to share?

cheers Richard

 

[Kailua_Krish]

Awesome pic of a large specimen. How old is it?

[richnorm]

2 hours ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

Awesome pic of a large specimen. How old is it?

Thanks. I will try to take a better shot as I really haven't captured the plant well. From memory it was planted around 2005 or 2006  when knee high.  It is now about 8 metres tall with maybe a dozen stems.   I noticed that overnight another of the suckers is commencing flowering. The inflorescences can be pretty large - maybe 2 metres long.  

[Kailua_Krish]

I looked last night and I think these are the only pictures of a large one in cultivation. Please correct me if Im wrong!

[richnorm]

1 hour ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

I looked last night and I think these are the only pictures of a large one in cultivation. Please correct me if Im wrong!

I think flowering is quite rare even in habitat. https://web.archive.org/web/20110927144911/http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2000/vol44n1p14-18.pdf

But I do know of another locally that is at the same stage as mine.  We are comparing notes and of course keeping fingers crossed for male and female flowers otherwise it's curtains.

[richnorm]

The main inflorescence is now 2.5m long!

[Fusca]

Impressive indeed!  Hope you get some viable seed!

Jon

[richnorm]

I thought the flowers had fallen off to give way to infertile fruit about the size of a marble.  But today I noticed a pleasant smell and a ton of bees and other insects swarming over the inflorescence. Turns out the "fruit" are female flowers.  Sadly I have no pollen though.   I now wonder whether the first structures which fell off were male flowers though no pollen was evident.

[richnorm]

I have had multiple female inflorescences but then a couple looked suspiciously different.  I cut away at a bud to reveal anthers so I am assuming these must be male.   Seems these have male and female flowers on the same plant after all. Not sure if this means the botanical description needs updating or this is perhaps another species.

[TomJ]

Thanks for this post. I always just assumed they were solitary never hearing much about them.

I often forget I have had one planted out because it is so slow for me.

It never looks bad... it just never seems to move, let alone produce another stem.

Is there any point to where mine should pick up speed?

I planted mine out very small many years ago.

[Darold Petty]

Yes, what TomJ said,   I have one with two fronds and a spear in a 5-gallon pot, about the same as TomJ's.  It is terribly slow,  just about 10 inches of spear advancement in a year. 

How can it be so slow in both warm Vista and chilly San Francisco ?   Will it ever increase the growth rate ?

[Merlyn]

I have a pair of Arenga Micrantha that I bought from ChuckG in February 2019.  They were in a mostly shady area at his place and had been in pots for many years.  One I planted in the SW corner and it's in full sun to about 2pm, then shaded by the neighbor's live oak + water oak canopy.  It's still there and has reduced the frond length from ~12-14 feet down to about 8 feet due to additional sun.  I took down the last tree on my lot that was shading it, so I think next year fronds may shrink some more.

The other was originally planted in the SE corner and I moved it to the NE full sun area in February 2020.  It's dramatically reduced frond length, and put out 2 new fronds last year on both stems.  New fronds are more like 4-5 feet.

[richnorm]

Not sure why you guys are getting slow growth. Mine is not watered or fertilised!  I thought it would die after flowering but it has thrown up heaps of new pups.

[Merlyn]

15 hours ago, richnorm said:

Not sure why you guys are getting slow growth. Mine is not watered or fertilised!  I thought it would die after flowering but it has thrown up heaps of new pups.

That is an absolute MONSTER, and in a good way!    I saw the size of the trash can in the previous 2018 photo, but that photo really brings it into perspective.  I'm feeling good about my placement in the SW corner, it'll make an awesome backdrop for my seating area over there.  However, the front yard one is planted about 6 feet back from the driveway.  That may have been a mistake.  My wife said, "Oh, you can just cut off lower branches and it'll arch over the driveway."  Yeah, more like "cover the entire driveway and the neighbor's hedge and the neighbor's driveway with a 30 foot diameter!

Mine are somewhat slow here, but probably about the same as my two Arenga Pinnata.  Arenga Engleri is a bit quicker to produce new fronds, but all of them have been in the ground no more than 1-2 years.  1st year sleep, 2nd year creep, 3rd year....leap?  Maybe!  My soil is mostly sandy for the NE palm, and a bit richer for the SW palm.  Rich how is your soil in that area? 

[richnorm]

Hi Merlyn,  It's on clay that never dries out. I think it may even have tapped into the water table.  it's in an area that used to have a huge bamboo shelter belt that housed a lot of roosting birds. Everything in that area grows well... It took a few years to get going but was never slow once planted.  They do get tatty in a windy spot.  I planted one a few years ago in deep shade and poor rainforest soil (seasonally dry) and it has been much slower, maybe 1 or max 2 leaves a year. Good luck!

[richnorm]

So I just had four huge male inflorescences but no females this year. However out of the thousands ( 10's of thousands?) of aborted fruit from earlier female flowerings a few fruit developed and contain fully formed seeds. I wonder if they could have hybridised with a Caryota that was flowering at the same time!  I have so few I dare not cut one but they feel heavy and sink so I will go ahead and try to germinate them.

[Tyrone]

What's the bet it is true seed and hasn't hybridised. Some female palms that don't have a male around sometimes make limited amounts of viable seed, somehow.

[richnorm]

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

What's the bet it is true seed and hasn't hybridised. Some female palms that don't have a male around sometimes make limited amounts of viable seed, somehow.

I know but dreams are free.

[Merlyn]

Hmmmm....an Arenga Micrantha/Caryota Gigas hybrid.  Now THAT would be monstrous! 

[Lawrence]

How do you know when Arenga micrantha seed is mature.

I know of a palm with seed that is now yellow and the bottom of the seed is starting to go black

[richnorm]

2 hours ago, Lawrence said:

How do you know when Arenga micrantha seed is mature.

I know of a palm with seed that is now yellow and the bottom of the seed is starting to go black

They drop when ready.  The seeds squeeze out cleanly but wear gloves and wash the seed thoroughly as they are highly irritating to skin.   I de-lidded a couple yesterday and they are viable having started germination with 24 hours.  Turns out there was a whole bunch hidden in foliage so I have heaps of seed but even less chance of a hybrid!

[Phoenikakias]

No hybrid. Just polygamous.

[richnorm]

9 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

No hybrid. Just polygamous.

I think there is another word for it which escapes me for now. No pollen was involved in the creation of these seeds as they opened three years apart!

[richnorm]

7 minutes ago, richnorm said:

I think there is another word for it which escapes me for now. No pollen was involved in the creation of these seeds as they opened three years apart!

Apomixis

[WaianaeCrider]

Planted one in 2008 from Flora Bunda.  First flowers this month.

[richnorm]

1 hour ago, WaianaeCrider said:

Planted one in 2008 from Flora Bunda.  First flowers this month.

Interesting, it bears no resemblance to mine!

[WaianaeCrider]

3 hours ago, richnorm said:

Interesting, it bears no resemblance to mine!

Interesting indeed.  Got if from Flora Bunda, gotta trust them to label correctly.

[WaianaeCrider]

19 hours ago, richnorm said:

Interesting, it bears no resemblance to mine!

OPPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Big mistatke that picture was of Arenga microcarpa.

But I noticed that my Arenga micrantha is starting an infloresence as well.  I'll take picture later today.  That plant is like 10' to the top of the highest frond in like 11 1/2 years.

[WaianaeCrider]

Sorry for the mistake.  Here is the Arenga micrantha planted from a FB 1 gallon pot back in 2009.

 

[richnorm]

Closer but still quite different. Much more in keeping with the botanical description though.

[Jonathan]

Bump. An older thread but...

I was just doing a bit of research on A micrantha and came across this paper from the IPS

IPS journal

A couple of things interested me, firstly that the species is described as: 

 

Secondly, none of the above seems to match what we all seem to be growing as micrantha. 

The cracking palm posted by @richnorm above is clumping and 8m tall, not solitary and 2m tall...or are the stems 2m and leaves 6m?? Richards palm is definitely not hapaxanthic, as it lives on after flowering.

So are we looking at two different species here? Or is there a more updated description available somewhere and I've missed it??

A bit of a mystery!

[Phoenikakias]

I have one bought as micrantha and blooming too. It certainly is not hapaxanthic (like Corypha with a a terminal inflorescence), instead it is well monocarpic, this term referring either to the whole plant (in case of a solitary habit) or to the blooming stem (in case of a caespitose habit). As for the diocious habit, it may well be that some female specimens occasionally become only functionally dioecious and can produce a limited quantity of fertile male flowers and fertile fruits accordingly. Besides same stem may alternate between solely female and male inflorescence at a time and and if more stems in same clump bloom simultaneously one may bear male and the other female flowers. Nature finds a way...

[richnorm]

I really think this needs a name. I wrote to the author of that paper but never got a response.  Mine has now produced many thousands of seeds that are popping up around the garden!

[Jonathan]

1 hour ago, richnorm said:

I really think this needs a name. I wrote to the author of that paper but never got a response.  Mine has now produced many thousands of seeds that are popping up around the garden!

Agreed Richard.

We haven't got micrantha in my opinion...so what have we got?

[realarch]

Thanks for this interesting thread, I’ve enjoyed the progression of updates and photos. I only have one Arenga in the garden and wasn’t familiar with A. miracantha, (or whatever it is), at all. So, mahalo!

Tim

[TropicsEnjoyer]

@richnorm Very interesting palm, the size and graceful foliage is something to . Also, has the main flowering trunk continued growing since flowering? 

Also regarding the pics @WaianaeCriderposted 3 years ago, whatever that palm is, does it begin flowering from bottom up? and if so at what point does leaf growth cease?

[richnorm]

4 hours ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

@richnorm Very interesting palm, the size and graceful foliage is something to . Also, has the main flowering trunk continued growing since flowering? 

Also regarding the pics @WaianaeCriderposted 3 years ago, whatever that palm is, does it begin flowering from bottom up? and if so at what point does leaf growth cease?

It did start new leaves but stalled. I will check again but suspect it will slowly fade away over a number of years like Caryota.  New stems keep forming but they flower very young now.

[WaianaeCrider]

5 hours ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

@richnorm Very interesting palm, the size and graceful foliage is something to . Also, has the main flowering trunk continued growing since flowering? 

Also regarding the pics @WaianaeCriderposted 3 years ago, whatever that palm is, does it begin flowering from bottom up? and if so at what point does leaf growth cease?

I posted pictures of two different palms so which are you referring to?

[Phoenikakias]

53 minutes ago, richnorm said:

It did start new leaves but stalled. I will check again but suspect it will slowly fade away over a number of years like Caryota.  New stems keep forming but they flower very young now.

Same here! A very young offshoot, not reaching above my ankle, has started blooming! Fortunately bigger ones, considered as future substitutes of the main stem, keep producing only vegetative growth.

[Jonathan]

Arenga incognito.

Does anyone know John Dransfield?